Tbear and Others - False Metagaming Warning

[Azande]

BYOND Key: XanderDox
Staff BYOND Key: All of these staff members were online when Tbear told me they all agreed with his belief, so this complaint is against all of them.

Game ID: b62-cy85
Reason for complaint: I think the reason for the warning is farcical and overly attempts to control how players make decisions or play their characters.
Evidence/logs/etc:
 

Additional remarks:

From the rules:
 

Quote

No metagaming. This could mean using any knowledge external to your character (knowledge of antag types/items as a non-traitor, or knowledge of who is the traitor from OOC information) to give yourself an unfair advantage. See the glossary for further explanation.

I was warned for metagaming by Tbear, because I determined using inductive reasoning and logic, at almost end round, a crew member was a 'criminal'.

Jacqulen Roberts had been beheaded by an Officer during an arrest. Shortly after, someone came on comms saying THEY were Roberts, and that they had used plastic surgery to disguise another person as them. They deliberately asked me to come look at them on cameras, take a picture and confirm they were Roberts.

When I did this, I noticed they were wearing a suit cooling unit. I know as an AI, that suit cooling units are only used by IPCs to prevent heat-death. I then realized that there is an IPC Officer, 'Omen', that had direct access to all of Robert's confiscated gear (a Banshee Hardsuit) that the Fake Roberts was wearing when they called me, they were also wearing a security belt.

Knowing this, I then went to check the locations of the other IPC crew, none of whom were in spacesuits or space at the time. Only Omen was untraceable and off sensors, and he suspiciously had not been heavily involved in the Bridge Raid to capture Roberts and Thompson. It was at this point that over the Security channel, I informed Security of my determination. As soon as I said this, Omen/Fake Roberts confirmed my theory.

It was near round end, I used completely in game facts and information, the antag did not seem mad, and there was no metagaming involved. I believe that once again, I am being targeted by staff over petty issues in hopes to remove me from the community.

[Azande]

@Alberyk @tbear13 @Cnaym @ShesTrying @sonicgotnuked I think this is everyone named in the complaint.

[Cnaym]

Couple small things to throw in for whoever takes this.

Humans can equip suit coolers, you could even do that to like uh... trick an AI into thinking it's an IPC or go into hot places like fires. It's not a common thing, but it's useful.

The jump to them using a voice changer is okay imho, the original just had their head popped off according to reports on the radio.

Suits of the same type all look the same, it could be another suits, was there a reason the AI jumped to this specific conclusion?

The checkpoint was broken into, security gear was missing, the belt itself could have been stolen aswell.

I ahelped this for valid hunting originally since it seemed like a really far jump to come to this conclusion.

Alb was not part of the discussion since he was afk at the time and did not follow the ticket nor participate in how it was handled.

Whoever handles this feel free to ping me when something specific is required.

[Peppermint]

I was in this round and pretty much every facet of the AI play was another rendition of 'why AI should be removed'.

Things like  instantly outing a traitor who broke into the Captain's office, bolting doors, bolting people into an elevater, bolting open doors to allow security into places they'd a) not asked for access to and b) didn't have a warrant to go into, ect (All of which was before the 20min mark lol)

. It was all around garbage AI play. Having this culminate into what could have been an enjoyable and interesting scenario - which it was given the theories people were coming up with - only to be dashed by the end lot of metagaming was super lame.

[Azande]

1 minute ago, Cnaym said:

Couple small things to throw in for whoever takes this.

Humans can equip suit coolers, you could even do that to like uh... trick an AI into thinking it's an IPC or go into hot places like fires. It's not a common thing, but it's useful.

The jump to them using a voice changer is okay imho, the original just had their head popped off according to reports on the radio.

Suits of the same type all look the same, it could be another suits, was there a reason the AI jumped to this specific conclusion?

The checkpoint was broken into, security gear was missing, the belt itself could have been stolen aswell.

I ahelped this for valid hunting originally since it seemed like a really far jump to come to this conclusion.

Alb was not part of the discussion since he was afk at the time and did not follow the ticket nor participate in how it was handled.

Whoever handles this feel free to ping me when something specific is required.

The suit in question as a Heph Industries Banshee Combat suit, very unique and Roberts had hers confiscated earlier in the shift when she fled from Security. 

And Yes, Roberts was literally beheaded with multiple witnesses. I had begun to believe the story that she used plastic surgery to disguise someone else, but she'd had never left Nina Thompson (her traitor friend) to be arrested/killed with her body double, and it was highly improbable that during an active security chase, she had enough time to find a person, kidnap them without making a scene, plastic surgery them and then convince them to pretend to be here in an escape/combat situation.

I never knew nor was informed the checkpoint was broken into, actually. Not even post round until now.

Yes, all other species can equip suit coolers - I've never see someone do this once unless they were an IPC, and logically a criminal is going to save hardsuit space for equipment they genuinely need.

[Azande]

4 minutes ago, Lemei said:

I was in this round and pretty much every facet of the AI play was another rendition of 'why AI should be removed'.

Things like  instantly outing a traitor who broke into the Captain's office, bolting doors, bolting people into an elevater, bolting open doors to allow security into places they'd a) not asked for access to and b) didn't have a warrant to go into, ect (All of which was before the 20min mark lol)

. It was all around garbage AI play. Having this culminate into what could have been an enjoyable and interesting scenario - which it was given the theories people were coming up with - only to be dashed by the end lot of metagaming was super lame.

I'll respond to this, despite it being irrelevant as it's not related to the warning.

Jackie Roberts broke into the bridge, and robbed the Captains Office. A few minutes later, she talked over the Command Channel, while holding traitor equipment and the beside the encryption keys she had just taken out of her headset to replace with the captain's. She caught my attention, purposefully, as I was the only person on the Command channel. When I jumped to them, they were holding a HephIndustries Banshee hardsuit, she entered the Medical lift, I locked it - and she took out an Energy Pistol that was also stolen from the captain's office.

I informed Security of all of this, and for the next 15 minutes, they never searched her or arrested her. Zhang-Shen does not refuse orders unless danger is involved or it's a highly secure location (Head of Staff Office, Armoury, Engine, Vault, AI Core, etcetera). I let anyone into anywhere they ask to go into as long as they are crew, and not an active escaping criminal. You can confirm this by asking the various service and science crew members that I allow into various places every round as Zhang-Shen.

No metagaming ever occured. Both antagonists called my direct attention to them, while they had either contraband/stolen items, or were wearing identifiable gear that allowed further inductive reasoning.

I've been told ICly and OOCly many times that Zhang-Shen is a really good AI, and I've been enjoying playing them. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Azande

[sonicgotnuked]

Ok, so I guess I'm pinged. I basically asked if it was 100 percent conclusion, instantly, with no other suspicions going, or if it was suspicions.  Tbear asked for an opinion. That was my response. Otherwise, I'm not really involved in the warning since at the end of the day, it was the decision of who ever gave the warning at the time. 

[MattAtlas]

Pratepresidenten and I will take this complaint.

Be patient while we look through all the proof, please.

[tbear13]

Alright, so to summarize what I saw here: You said that Omen was Fake Jaq based on them using a suit cooler, and Omen not being trackable on sensors or by camera. It seemed like a pretty big jump to go from 'suit cooler, not on sensors' to 'Omen has to be Fake Jaq.' It would've been fine if you checked on Omen, or mentioned having a suspicion, but you went straight to being 100% certain they were Omen based on what was, in my opinion, shaky evidence.

[Azande]

7 minutes ago, tbear13 said:

Alright, so to summarize what I saw here: You said that Omen was Fake Jaq based on them using a suit cooler, and Omen not being trackable on sensors or by camera. It seemed like a pretty big jump to go from 'suit cooler, not on sensors' to 'Omen has to be Fake Jaq.' It would've been fine if you checked on Omen, or mentioned having a suspicion, but you went straight to being 100% certain they were Omen based on what was, in my opinion, shaky evidence.

My issue is two fold. This is not metagaming, and its policing the wording of a single sentence that I uttered once in the round.

The evidence I had was conjecture and inductive-reasoning based. But it's 'shakiness', should've been punished ICly by the crew members involved, not OOCly by staff - because no metagaming, or any other rule break, occured.

I genuinely took IC information and made an IC statement, in character as an AI that was connecting dots.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Azande

[Azande]

I'll go on to say that I never encouraged Security to arrest Omen, I did not try to track him after this determination, and in my mind at worst he was in violation of a small regulation about misuse of confiscated equipment. It wasn't a priority mass-terrorism issue, it was a small 'wow I figured the mystery out guys!' moment, that honestly made me feel pretty cool cuz it was kinda like detective work.

Only for me to get shat on with a warning just three minutes after.

[ShesTrying]

Hi, while I was staff that was online, I wasn't reading the ticket. I think tbear's asking what we thought of it flew by in roleplay that I was participating in.

I didn't really offer any input either way.

[Azande]

19 hours ago, MattAtlas said:

Pratepresidenten and I will take this complaint.

Be patient while we look through all the proof, please.

Going to redirect this complaint to be solely at Tbear, in response to the others mentioned whom have clarified they were not actually involved in the decision.

[Pratepresidenten]

Hewwo! Verdict time!

So, pretty brief, we've found this warning to be invalid, and with that, it will be purged from the records.

Will close in a day unless other issues are brought fourth.