Add a "high priest" for cultists as a mentor/pseudo Command antagonist role

[Sheeplets]

A lot of the time I've noticed that cults seem to fail because hardly anyone knows what they're doing, or they have no concrete leadership to collect under and lack a real sense of direction besides their end goal of summoning Nar'sie. We could potentially remedy this by adding in a preference role for more experienced cult players to opt into who are willing to direct the flow of the round. In this case the High Priest (working title) would be like a head revolutionary who acts as an IC mentor and leader for the cult, complete with a unique set of robes.

Ideally they wouldn't be given much extra mechanically (to curb powercreep) besides elevated authority in their group, clout, and the aforementioned Giorgio Armani custom-tailored robes to help facilitate roleplay and allow for fun gimmicks which move away from mindless slaughter and more towards involving the crew as more than just corpses. It might even be helpful to give them a presence ability similar to vampires, using their close relationship with the Veil to sway people into willingly joining, which understandably would be a hard sell in any other case and could help get the ball rolling without the need for ganking.

It'd be nice to hear other ideas and additions if any of you have some. This could be cool.

Edited October 3, 2020 by UncleJo

[MalMalumam]

This sounds AWESOME!

I kinda wanna code it right now!

(after I get done coding what I'm doing right now)

[Valkrae]

Just make Cult more open to exploration of ideas, rather than 'we blood cult'. That'd solve 90% of the problems with Cult.

[Carver]

A method of voluntary recruiting that doesn't involve a forceful, painful rune would also help. Such as someone trying to read a special 'lore tome' in depth (and they purposely do this, it can't be forced in any way).

[MalMalumam]

A LORE TOME

I WILL CODE THIS RIGHT NOW

[KingOfThePing]

this is exactly the shit I signed up for. amazing idea, crazy cat lady

[CampinKiller]

Just please no presence, vamp presence is already both annoying and not RP’d properly

[MalMalumam]

I LIED

I won't code this right now

BUT I MIGHT CODE IT IN ABOUT A DAY

[Guest]

On 03/10/2020 at 09:50, CampinKiller said:

Just please no presence, vamp presence is already both annoying and not RP’d properly

Yes, this. Presence is a pain in the ass to play around at the best of times.

[MalMalumam]

Ok so I actually I'm rethinking the "CODE IT RIGHT NOW" part b/c probably need a bit more feedback.

/tg/station actually has this, called the Cult Master.  https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Blood_Cult#The_Cult_Master_and_You

Anyway, I think implementing both the High Priest thing and the peaceful conversion thing is awesome.  However after discussing with @Coalf they brought up the following requirements they'd like to see in the peace-conversion method:

1) It should be less risky than a rune, but more risky than rev conversion. (For reference:  cult conversion is writhing around on a rune and burning from the inside while a cultist shouts over you, and rev conversion is silently using a verb to make a "join?" prompt come up for them.)
2) It should be preferably done through interaction, or at least be limited so that cultists can't just spam it.
3) It should be obvious to a player (not the character, necessarily) that this is "becoming cultist" so they don't do it on accident.

Re: 3, an automatic OOC prompt may be good enough?  "Note to player:  Clicking "Yes" will convert you into a cultist of Nar'Sie!"

Re: 2, that means it can't be an item that the cultists can summon through a rune, unless the use of that rune is limited in some way.  Interaction is a good way to go, I think, yes.  So maybe like a fancy ritual?  Maybe the cultist has to have the tome in their hand... oo.  And then the conversion process... oo.  So make a new rune, that the volunteer has to stand still on.  When it's activated, the cultist has to draw eight more runes around it without the volunteer stepping off of it, place a candle in each corner, and then the cultist has to activate the center rune again, and the volunteer gets a prompt to convert?  And glowing darkness surround the runes?  Oo, what if we made that just what the conversion rune does in general??  And you can do the ritual with just one rune, but then it does the "wracking agony and screaming" thing?  (And the cultist can summon candles and matches.)  Oh and maybe instead of or in addition to a prompt or notice, the converting cultist has to say something like "DO YOU ACCEPT THE DARKNESS?" and the volunteer has to say "I DO! I DO! I DO! PRAISE BE!" or something

I think that would cover 1 too : )

Re: Cult Master, what powers should they have?  And they should be voted in like the /tg/ head cultist?  Perhaps the ability to use the Communication rune without having to draw it?  And be able to use sheets of steel to make cult structures?  Maybe the cult master can summon exactly one of the cult guns (bloodspike)?  And they are the only one that can activate the Summon Nar'Sie ritual?  If the Master dies, a new one should be able to be elected?  If the Cult Master uses the astral projection rune, they can communicate to the cultists still using the Communication rune without having to draw it?  During the vote, the cult is encouraged to use AOOC to discuss whether they want to vote for the master or not?  Oh and maybe the head cultist can choose the communal objective (summon nar'sie, sacrifice some people, get a certain number of cultists off station, etc.)

If converting people becomes easier to do, perhaps raise the number of people needed to summon Nar'Sie?

Ooh and what if ... you know how you can choose your deity as a chaplain?  What if you could choose your diety as a head cultist : D

Edited October 5, 2020 by MalMalumam

[Happy_Fox]

I like both ideas, more peaceful ways for cult that encourage RP and don't immediately set off red flags for security because its a bunch of people cutting themselves in maintenance. The Cult Master would also be great and provides a nice leadership role/target. I'm not too sure mechanically what they should have, even if they were just identical to cultists it would still be good as a RP thing to have a leader for the group to co-ordinate.

[MalMalumam]

Oh!  And the Head Master Cultist should only be able to use their Special Powers while wearing their special robes!

[Peppermint]

My worry with a peaceful conversion option would be...why in the world would anyone not use it, if it's an option? Has all the advantages of converting someone, with none of the downsides - being violent, scary, ect - so would have to be balanced around that. Personal bias maybe, but I feel that peace cult is..not at all enjoyable. It's entirely fine for some round types to be more bloody/violent than others, given if people are voting for an antagonist gamemode, they should expect to be, you know, antagonized. Especially given a whole bunch of folks peace converted into a classic two hour summon, or two hour 'yeah, we're hostile now' would be encouraged and very frustrating. Until cult is fundamentally reworked to have multiple cult 'types', a different end goal, or some other alternative flavour, I'm not sure it'd work out.
 

As for the lead cult thingy..maybe? I'm not sure. None of the other modes aside from rev have a predesigned leader so to allow people to have more flexibility in their approach, and there's nothing stopping more experienced players teaching as is current anyway. I'd personally be a fan of just increasing the time restriction before people can play cultists, given it's a harder antag than many of the others and seems to attract an inordinate amount of newer folks. I also can't think of much worse than another vamp-like ability list, given they steal player agency to a frustrating degree. I could see it working in, say, a temple of some sort that the cult has to build alongside freaky freakiness (a reason for the sacrifice rune, maybe?) so there's some pay off aside from being a straight buff.  

[MalMalumam]

@Lemei I get what you mean about peacecult being kinda frustrating.  You're just happily doing your job, no clue that something weird may be going on, and then suddenly, NAR'SIE HAS RISEN, is a pretty frustrating way to have your round end.  I think it'd be cooler if like, cultists had to convert *everyone* on the station, or at least 80% of them, and die/kill them trying, not just have the cop-out of "o hay we have 9 people?  let's do teh narsie thing".  That sounds like a process that would be engaging and enjoyable for much more people, and which some fancy ritualistic peace-conversion would do wonders for enabling.

I'd say with the leader, you could definitely include "no leader" in the voting process if someone starts a vote to make themselves the leader, shutting off future leader-vote attempts.  A temple does sound really cool to help enable the leader's (or just an arbitrary cultist's) powers!

[Carver]

I actually like more peaceful antagonists if they use the position to provoke RP and greater involvement, as the recruiting types don't need violent action to offer interaction. Nar-Sie, whether bloody or peaceful, is just the equivalent of calling the shuttle. It ends the round in a wholly mechanical fashion - no RP or story to it.

For any kind of non-violent recruitment, I'd simply prefer it not be as obviously insane as current recruiting is where you're vandalising the station with uncleanable blood as the 'volunteer' writhes in extreme pain - even when they willingly accept it. I merely suggested 'lore tome' earlier as a metaphor for having an artifact that one voluntarily delves in that then corrupts them, a not wholly uncommon trope in these types of settings.

[MalMalumam]

@Carver Neat, gotcha!  Maybe like... a uh... crystal ball, or... something, that there can be only one of (or a few of) (to satisfy Coalf's stipulation i/r/t not simply spamming them)?  I'm kinda partial to the kooky ritualistic thing.  Obvious, and perhaps the runes disappear upon use, and one requiring the cooperation of the volunteer, but non-violent.  Do you have any thoughts on candidates for what it may/should be?

Or maybe like a prayer ritual... the cultist has to lead a chant at an altar, and the volunteer has to repeat the same things the cultist says?  And the cultist can say anything, and the volunteer has to repeat it back exactly?  ... Maybe?  Hm.

[Carver]

Not a fan of runes being involved due to the aforementioned "vandalising the station with uncleanable blood". I'd say just have it be an item that every starter cultist spawns with, to which all that need happens is the volunteer uses it. If you want to prevent abuse, make it so a cultist needs to activate/charge it via interacting, before someone else can use it - repeating the need for an activation/charge every time.

Bonus points if you figure a way to keep ex-cultists from peacefully reconverting themselves with it after having used it once.

[MalMalumam]

Hmmm... Maybe if... ah.  So, I have a PR out to make drawing runes happen with actual chalk, instead of a random dagger you never see.  So what if we make the peace-conversion happen via a rune that the cultist guides the volunteer to draw around themselves, and once they finish, they activate it, and the rune disappears, and now they're a cultist?

[Carver]

Prefer the theme of 'delving into the forbidden on your own' that some kind of artifact or book offers - especially with the 'drawn in by a desire for power' way one could write the prompt.