Abolish HRP.

[Marlon P.]

For as long as anyone can remember SS13 RP'ers have divided servers into LRP, MRP, and HRP. Whenever I look into the reasons people consider MRP and HRP different, the answers are either unsatisfying or the answers come up short entirely.

MRP often have more rules than HRP servers regarding things like escalation and combat.

LRP servers don't usually advertise themselves as such or make it part of their identity how they don't roleplay.

The terms are archaic labels from an older era, and only serve to form a sense of exclusionary club membership. Our roleplay is not inherently heavier than another servers simply because of a label.

It is my suggestion that we remove the term HRP from Aurora and simply call ourselves a Roleplaying Server.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Marlon P.

[KingOfThePing]

The HRP tag is no form of gatekeeping. Nor is the divide between LRP HRP and MRP something SS13 specific. If someone new looks at the server list, such tags are to help identify the goal and general level of "seriousness" of a server. Someone looking for casual chaotic fun doesn't want to waste his time no a HRP server - which is fine. 

 

The levels of RP standards are also fairly different, you can see it with anyone new coming from Bay (I am legally required to point out that this is an example). I don't see anything bad about this tag, nor are they archaic from an older era. Neither is it a "badge" to wear on your chest. It is simply an aid to identify the level of standards that are expected and enforced. I'd even go so far to say that Aurora's RP is indeed heavier than other servers, but you are entirely correct - not because of the label, but of the community that plays and stays here. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by KingOfThePing

[ImmortalRedshirt]

So, here's the thing. This wouldn't be the first time a server has done this, in fact, there's a pretty steady historical precedent when it comes to servers removing the prefix. However, in nearly all cases of this happening, things tend to go sideways very fast. More often than not, when someone sees that label, they assume that it's one of those servers where it's okay to run really out-of-place gimmicks, no matter the tone that was being set earlier. In the end, it just becomes another one of the numerous fragfests you can find anywhere on the hub. So...yeah, I'm not really on board with this, having seen it played out in real time before.

[Pratepresidenten]

The HRP tag is a low effort, easy indicator of what to expect when joining, so why remove this barebones filter and put unneeded work and annoyance on both moderation staff and playerbase?

I feel this is an unnecessary change for the sake of change, so I am voting for dismissal.

[Marlon P.]

1. What is the difference between HRP and MRP?

2. Is Aurora more HRP than the other HRP servers?

3. What are the consequences of just calling ourselves a Role-playing Server?

On the discord people were insisting the answers to these questions were,

1. Pain rp makes us more immersive, or unsure.

2. Yes.

3. People will join and not follow our community standards.

The first two answers are unsatisfactory, or have a clubhouse mindset.

The third implies that our staff cant enforce server guidelines, and that we should avoid encouraging people to join who arent good enough for us.

[KingOfThePing]

To answer your question:

1. I'd say it's both believability and escalation, in a way. HRP tends more to built longer lasting stories with characters and the universe they live in, trying to build a believable world.

2. Yes, clearly, since even people coming from other HRP servers (the little there are) have to adjust to our roleplay standards.

3. People will not know what level of roleplay to expect when seeing the server on the hub.

 

Please explain to me, what "Clubhouse mentality" means, I couldn't figure out what that is. To answer the last question, yes, of course moderators and admins can enforce the server guidelines. But why make it harder by not pre-filtering the people who are just not looking for a HRP enviroment to play in? You make it sound like that is something bad. Some people just want to fuck around with constant chaos. This is fine, but Aurora is just not the place for that. This has absolutely nothing to do with avoiding people to join. It just signals people who do not seek this kind of game to not join the server and waste their time. Again, there is nothing wrong with that. People have different tastes and signalling what kind of taste is needed/wanted for our server is in no form gatekeeping. Everyone is free to join if they want, they just have to follow the rules and standards that are expected of them.

Edited November 7, 2021 by KingOfThePing

[Kintsugi]

Frankly, a terrible idea. The fact of the matter is that labels have meaning and even if vague, they still have meaning. I don't want to completely rehash what I said last night in the #lore-general channel, so I'll just link that. https://discord.com/channels/724651070017765459/725209033883254804/906770275545280522 - my ultimate point was that the HRP has meaning and it helps define what Aurora is, which in turn attracts some people and tells other people that it likely isn't something they're going to enjoy. Here is a short list of just some of the servers on the hub that merely call themselves "roleplay servers"

Now, what precisely do these servers have in common with Aurora? Very, very little. That isn't a comment as to their quality, but instead their content. In fact, "roleplay" as a label is so vague as to be pointless. You cannot easily guess as to the standards of play held on these servers, because the label is so broad that you cannot determine precisely what it means. "heavy roleplay", on the other hand, is a very specific label with a specific meaning. Most people who play SS13 will tell you that "HRP" means a server with a specific sort of standards, where the emphasis is on grounded characters and how they interact, often in a well fleshed-out world. "Roleplay" can mean anything, from erotic roleplay, to wacky improvisational comedy, to remaining in-character no matter what, regardless of the situation that's going on - even if that character is very silly and the situation is outlandish. In fact, that's what roleplay means for the above servers. The fact of the matter is that ditching the label of "heavy roleplay" will make it harder to define Aurora as a distinct community, and will make it harder for people who do not play Aurora to know if Aurora is right for them.

5 hours ago, Pratepresidenten said:

The HRP tag is a low effort, easy indicator of what to expect when joining, so why remove this barebones filter and put unneeded work and annoyance on both moderation staff and playerbase?

At the end of the day, this is the simplest and most truthful rebuttal of this suggestion. Let me ask you this - why exactly do you want us to make this change in the first place? I struggle to understand the motivation behind this suggestion. The benefit is completely unclear to me, and the detriment very apparent. Calling ourselves an HRP server causes zero problems - I welcome you to point one out. The most I can guess at is that you suggest there is a "clubhouse mindset", which I assume to mean a sentiment of elitism, or gatekeeping. But that doesn't make any sense - we do not exclude players at the door. We advertise ourselves as something - people who are interested in that something will know to try Aurora, and people who are not interested in that something will probably avoid it. That isn't gatekeeping - that is personal preference. In fact, having a distinct label with a distinct meaning will do a lot more to draw players to Aurora than it will to exclude them. I know that at the very least the fact Aurora called itself an HRP server drew me in, and it will have drawn in countless others.

[Arrow768]

5 hours ago, Pratepresidenten said:

The HRP tag is a low effort, easy indicator of what to expect when joining, so why remove this barebones filter and put unneeded work and annoyance on both moderation staff and playerbase?

I feel this is an unnecessary change for the sake of change, so I am voting for dismissal.

This are pretty much my thoughts on this matter.
 

[Zer0Winds]

I very much disagree that the HRP tag is useless.

It's why I came here to begin with. I started on Goon, specifically their Goon Roleplay Server... Which despite being tagged as Roleplay is very much nothing like Aurora Roleplay. I've tried another server that called itself a Roleplay Server, and again, it wasn't exactly what I wanted.

So I gravitated to the server with the label that interested me. I wouldn't have bothered with Aurora if it just said "Roleplay Server" because for all I know, it could have just been another instance of lower mid RP.

What is the difference between MRP and HRP? Negligible, sure. If you really want to abolish a term, MRP would be where I start, not HRP. But MRP is good for having that in-between area, where honestly, you want enforced RP, but don't want the extra guidelines that HRP entails. So I don't think its a good idea to remove it. Or any of them.

I don't think its some gatekeeping thing. Some people just specifically want a higher roleplay experience, and others do not. Its a matter of letting people at a glance see what they might expect if they click that join button.

[Kintsugi]

7 minutes ago, Zer0Winds said:

What is the difference between MRP and HRP? Negligible, sure. If you really want to abolish a term, MRP would be where I start, not HRP. But MRP is good for having that in-between area, where honestly, you want enforced RP, but don't want the extra guidelines that HRP entails. So I don't think its a good idea to remove it. Or any of them.

Actually, I'd argue the difference between the two is substantial. MRP very frequently disregards worldbuilding, canonicity, continuity, and lore - instead, the emphasis is placed on improvisational roleplay in a largely undefined and freeform setting. The emphasis on an MRP server is on freedom, with very few constraints regarding believability and behavioral expectations. Your roleplay is about playing a character and staying in-character, even if that character is very silly, and your actions include powergaming or validhunting or memery. The point is that you remain IC, regardless of how wacky the situation and scenario is. Contrast that with HRP and the distinction is extremely clear.

[Zer0Winds]

I guess so. I'm speaking from limited experience in that regard, so I'll take your word for it. You do make a good point on it.

Further helping that there's no real need to be rid of the labels at all.

[Carver]

It doesn't remotely hurt to keep a label. Categorizing servers helps people find what suits them best.