Marlon Phoenix' Unathi Lore Deputy Application

[Marlon P.]

12 hours ago, SatinsPristOTD said:

+1

Thank you!

4 hours ago, canon35 said:

constant inconsistency on what technology Unathi even use militarily

What do you mean?

4 hours ago, canon35 said:

but even with Unathi there's been a need for rewrites and retcons of your work in order to make it all actually fit together. 

Other than autakh, could you show me where?

And are your concerns alleviated or reinforced by my writing in the op?

Do you feel I cannot work in the bounds haydizzle would give me?

Thank you for reading my app!

Edit: Also its been awhile so i will mention i did not write original autakh they were a project from a deputy. I did sign off on em though! Theyre great!

Edited November 26, 2021 by Marlon P.

[Marlon P.]

While on a 3hr drive across the state i passed some of the time working out (in my head) my planned proposal to haydizzle on the religious rituals.

This would include things like items or rituals of questionably mundane natures; like the tajara tarot cards.

This got me thinking about other minor religions on moghes. So i have another project to submit if haydizzle wants it.

i have a framework for minor religions peppering moghes. Its that each one has to have a gameplay impact of mild to severe. Mild being dietary restrictions, severe being necessary items that take up slots or mandatory behavior etc.

Anything i do though is controlled fully by the dizzle of the hay!

Edited November 27, 2021 by Marlon P.

[canon35]

On 26/11/2021 at 02:23, Marlon P. said:

What do you mean?

Breacher suits being the end-all be-all upon the Unathi battlefield only to be bested by 3 aut'akh with a welder, the fact that Unathi had their own rifles and yet charged a flaming K'lax Za'Viax into melee, the introduction of the Izweski as having had airships for centuries despite it being stated that the Traditionalists were the ones to begin using air power, not the Hegemony. It ties into a greater issue that Unathi technology and tactics shifted and changed too much depending on what the article or lore piece was going for instead of just remaining on some written level of consistency and internal logic. One moment the Hegemony was using modern weaponry given to them to fight, the next they were fighting with spears and travelling to places on foot. 

On 26/11/2021 at 02:23, Marlon P. said:

Other than autakh, could you show me where?

Dominian Unathi had to be rewritten in order for them to fit into Dominia and Unathi lore without causing too much friction and to actually try to tie them into the struggles on Moghes.
The Grim Compact for months was a topic of contention as writers had to re-examine it to figure out what to even do with that area of unathi lore.  
Honor had to be written down in full and developed for players to be able to fully understand the topic and how it relates into Unathi society, making it easier to be used ICly and showing that it extends past nobility/warriors. 
The Izweski Hegemony was given its own page so that its information wasn't so scattered and didn't take up a significant portion of the species' page. It also had to be changed to better accommodate how figures like Not'zar were able to work against their own vassals despite it supposedly be a feudal system and to give women more roles to play in the Hegemony. 

Many of these were problems that cropped up during your tenure that went unaddressed for years or simply left alone after their introduction besides a few small changes that were demanded or heavily needed. When you left and the writers changed, they finally addressed them and began to rework these writings so that Unathi lore wasn't dragged down by it. 

On 26/11/2021 at 02:23, Marlon P. said:

And are your concerns alleviated or reinforced by my writing in the op?

Do you feel I cannot work in the bounds haydizzle would give me?

No. Your previous behaviors, as outlined by other posters, towards members of the community and how you acted when you were in the lore position leads me to believe the same problems will likely just crop up again even after you're given the position. You argue against retcons that are needed like the Biesel and Sol parties being changed and continue to justify older lore that were legitimate problem spots like ATLAS. 
 

Edited November 29, 2021 by canon35
Added a bit more to the first answer.

[Marlon P.]

Im sorry there is one area you are mistaken. I have not argued against retcons. I asked if the old parties were retconned. This is the second time my asking questions has been seen as an attack on a rewrite.

The second prong of my response on this is that its not even a bad thing of I was questioning rewrites, or even if I argue against one. There's a thread criticizing the new biesel parties; one I didn't participate in outside asking if it was an ic change. If when I do question a rewrite it's seen as me dredging up the past then so is any criticism, unless I'm uniquely meant to silence my own judgment? 

And even if I am 'dredging up the past', that is also not a bad thing. Something being old doesn't make it good nor bad.

9 hours ago, canon35 said:

Breacher suits being the end-all be-all upon the Unathi battlefield only to be bested by 3 aut'akh with a welder

This is how they can be defeated in-game. Unless it changed you use a welder to open them up. Breachers are very strong but like in-game you can best them if you isolate one and gang up on it. Any lore hardware I use uses the same strengths and weaknesses as they do on-station.

9 hours ago, canon35 said:

Zepplins / air power / tech level

12 zeppelins used in medieval times I would still argue don't count as having an air force when the tradcons had propeller planes that shot most of them down instantly. But i can ask to add "technically the first air power" to the hegemony's page.

Being aliens the unathi's "tech level" developed very different than our own. I point to a society like the Inca where it was incredibly advanced and was one of the largest cohesive empires on the planet at the time, and they did all that without ever using wheels. It was a personal choice to not dive into the weeds on what technology they used in the past except what was explicitly mentioned because I believed at the time that a section on that would balloon to astronomical sizes. But now I think it could be done, but I still ask where the line is drawn. Like I personally do not know if it relates to character development on station if the Unathi switched from telegraph lines to wireless broadband in 2089 CE, but maybe it means something else about another technology? That's something that i'd engage players about and talk to haydizzle for.

9 hours ago, canon35 said:

ATLAS

Atlas made a good villain because they had name recognition and everyone hates them, which is what you want in a fascist movement destroying democracy. Like, them calling for the sol capitol to be stormed in 2019 hits different after jan 6th... my only regrets are:
i was ran out before i got to obliterate them in-character. KoTW did it though, and in a very fun way.

And I regret not personally taking charge of their entire lore including the wiki away from the human dev at the time. Their wildly inconsistent wiki development was not from me. I was very hands off with the human wiki work, and the human developer was doing all of the wiki writing for ATLAS, I was focused on their narrative going on in-universe through articles.

As an aside since I'm defending them:
I don't actually support fascism or anything as stupid and nonsensical as racial dominance. Writing a villain doesn't make one emphasize with a villain. I could argue in narrative defense of ATLAS (but not their incoherent wiki info) all day, and i'd love to do it because that's how I learn as a writer, but that should go to a separate thread.

9 hours ago, canon35 said:

Wiki formatting / izweski page / wiki criticism

I read the honor pages and it looks like they were added to, not really retconned. The rest also seems to be criticisms of info organization and wiki organizing. Pretty fair! There was a years-long debate on if everything needed its own page or should be consolidated onto one page. It looks like a new mantra for wiki organizing took hold in the year I was gone. Its weird that im being retroactively told id make a bad deputy because i didn't bet on the right wiki format horse.

9 hours ago, canon35 said:

No. Your previous behaviors, as outlined by other posters, towards members of the community and how you acted when you were in the lore position

I've acknowledged what happened. My behavior was erratic and rude. Again, at the time I was under a targeted harassment campaign.

Going wider,

No work, including mine, is sacrosanct. I was writing Unathi for seven years. Elements will be edited, changed, or rewritten. Seven years is a long time on a single project, and I changed during that time. Of course a lot of older things will be reworked or edited. Every single species has gone through at least one fundamental reboots. Even Tajara, which are seen as extremely stable, went through a long period of rewrites, changes in creative direction, and hard reboots of each factions' entire ethos and reason d'etre.

Every single dev would be denied if their work being edited meant they were bad devs. I am not unique.

However, unathi have been edited here or there; after i left people extremely creative people added to and edited up but what i have is still there after a year and what seems like strong incentives to go ham on reboots. Reboots being neither good nor bad.  I'm proud of the overall structural cohesion of my writing for Unathi that it's all still there. Even with the extremely natural, expected, and beneficial editing done to it by others. The same for anyone else - all work in a collaborative project changes going through the pipes, and even after being delivered. 

Thank you for your reply!

Edited November 29, 2021 by Marlon P.

[ShadowGabe23]

This is a +1 from me, I'm not normally active community wise but for a long while I was active in the old Unathi lore server, I have always appreciated the work of lore developers and knowing how important Marlon was in the formation of much of the lore we enjoy and indulge in now, it makes me feel at ease with the idea of them being a deputy, regardless of their past actions, it is not like they are going to become a lore master, they are here to help and flesh out the lore, and I dont believe there is any denying the talented lore development that has come from their work.

In general, as far as I'm aware no matter what people individually think of Marlon, there's no denying that they were a huge foundation of lore, and it wouldnt go amiss having someone who can and will help to flesh out more Unathi lore, seeing as it is up there when it comes to my species preferences. I would be overjoyed to see Marlon come back to perform more work on lore.

+1

[Boggle08]

Sup, I just have two questions for you.

The lore on the server has become more pluralistic since your departure, wildly varying in tone, theme, and presentation. This has been a blessing, as it facilitates more varied  character designs and makes the setting feel more lived in. I'm still left with the impression that you approach lore using a very specific framing of narrative, and that the basis for developments should function to support that narrative in some way. Although species development still makes use of overarching themes, these have become more like guidelines, rather than rules. Other elements of design are taking precedence right now, namely culture, and they may or may not be parsed with what I presume is your preferences for narrative and presentation. If you become a lore deputy, how flexible will you be with this change in paradigm? 

My last(but not least) concern is the state of Unathi worldbuilding. Canon echoes my sentiments about it: that development during your tenure spared consistency in favor of the fantastical. I like fantastical, but the core world building we need to keep the setting grounded and plausible feels neglected. Most of what I have to say about this is on my rescinded application. If you were to flesh out our setting and worldbuilding devices for Unathi, what would that look like?

[Marlon P.]

Great questions!

2 hours ago, Boggle08 said:

Other elements of design are taking precedence right now, namely culture, and they may or may not be parsed with what I presume is your preferences for narrative and presentation. If you become a lore deputy, how flexible will you be with this change in paradigm? 

My writing is very adaptable. Ive written something in just about every tone and for a diverse array of narratives. Anything Haydizzle wants me to focus on i will focus on.

that said, my only preference is unathi continue to capitalize on the space opera market (romantic space adventure, melodrama, chivalric romance) because it's been a source of success. Thats such a vague and freeform concept that it really can go anywhere.

2 hours ago, Boggle08 said:

My last(but not least) concern is the state of Unathi worldbuilding. If you were to flesh out our setting and worldbuilding devices for Unathi, what would that look like?

When you say devices, do you mean actual physical devices? If thats so, then im not sure at all. Id have to think about it.

If you mean devices more generally then,

As mentioned in my OP im working on lore canonization submissions on new minor religions and the groups that follow them, and expanding the culture. As well as clerical work in regards to all the lore developments we've had. My goal is to have anything i contribute to have some kind of on-station roleplay impact.

2 hours ago, Boggle08 said:

Canon echoes my sentiments about it: that development during your tenure spared consistency in favor of the fantastical. I like fantastical, but the core world building we need to keep the setting grounded and plausible feels neglected.

I dont know if its a satisfying answer but anything I write in an arc or lore I base on a real event in history or grounded mythology. Unathi lore arcs in the news serve almost like fables meant to inform roleplay, advertise Unathi with a dramatic story that shows their themes of being a space opera (swordfights, chivalry, wars fought over love; regular unathi stuff) stuck in a conventional world and how they deal with that, or give players insight into how Unathi operate to faciliate their own creativity. 

I believe they're consistent when judged together. Over 5 years they slowly developed from a backwater to a regional power with a lot of bumps and bruises. And in that time i was learning as a writer too!

Could you please you give examples of where my writing's fantastical nature uprooted unathi from feeling grounded?

Also im writing this on my phone during my works lunchbreak. Please let me know if i misinterpreted you and went off rambling in a way that didn't answer your questions!

Edited November 29, 2021 by Marlon P.

[Tomiix]

When I first started playing on Aurora, it was during Marlon's time as head Lore Developer and Head Unathi Developer.

When I was getting my bearings and figuring out my goals on Aurora and where I wanted to Roleplay, Marlon was instrumental in being a guide and a mentor in getting involved in Unathi roleplay, which was my first whitelist.

Having no reason to do so other than to help a new player, he worked with me in making a character that fit the Unathi narrative well. My application was a daring one for Unathi at the time, filling a lot of trends and niches which many would view as traps, as they encapsulated the classic pit falls to creating a 'mary sue' flavored like character. These traps usually got applications denied, yet he saw merit in my writing, and worked with me to develop a character which is one I am most well known for during my time on Aurora.

The time he spent helping me develop my character, even going further into helping me develop further backstory and world rp by filling the role of my characters Moghes side family, shows to me how much he cares about player interaction with the world he helps curate.

I would in turn eventually return the favor, and serve as Unathi Lore Deputy for some time. Helping Marlon develop the Wasteland factions and flesh out the life of non-hegemonic Moghes Unathi. During this time it was a pleasure to work with Marlon, and he and I were able to bounce back and forth awesome ideas that created a lot of concepts that hold strong today still.

I perhaps benefit from not having been active during the seeming fallout of 2019, as life took me away from space station roleplay and even these days my appearances are more visits than regular play sessions. So my perception of Marlon isn't as soured as some others are, but from my own perspective the Lore team couldn't ask for a better Lore Developer. Let alone a Deputy, if they value player and community interaction, as well as a energetic creative who will challenge how you think of world building.

For what my word is worth, Marlon has my +1 based on the merits of his proven work ethic.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Tomiix

[Tainavaa]

Honestly, this resume looks superb for someone only wanting to contribute to a corner of Aurora's lore. It really is a testament to how humble the accomplished can become. As far as I know, Jackboot would make a fantastic Unathi lore deputy as I've personally interacted with at least one of his in the past and I think he was a rather unique character; not a stereotype but also didn't shameless buck lore like it didn't exist. It was contrary but with nuance with respect to lore limitations. With that in mind as well as my very limited knowledge of Aurora's going-ons, Jackboot really does seem to be a top candidate if what he's written in his application is to be believed to be as good as it suggests.

+1

[Garnascus]

Despite an unending cold war, Marlon and i have remained good friends since i was a mod here. I enjoy Klingon Unathi lore a great deal and Marlon is responsible for, or at least has his hand in nearly all of it. Easy +1. 

[Marlon P.]

Thank you tomiix, tainavaa, and garnascus!

[SatinsPristOTD]

I'd like to insert myself on one small detail here: The Unathi Dominians

As a, self proclaimed Domi main, I went through the struggle of witnessing us rewrite our lore 100 thousand freaking times before it got to something decent.

I do not, can not, and will not hold the state of Unathi Dominians on Marlon. The entire lore was a mess. We had to rewrite our timeline like three times, and it wasn't a cause of Unathi. It was just badly thought out in the beginning.

Could they have denied having Unathi there? Yes, but to be honest.... a LOT of us (Even those of us writing lore FOR Domi) were confused as heck about our own lore.

So I do ask that it be held with a grain of salt when considering their application. It's not exactly their fault.

[Marlon P.]

My input on dominia was so extraordinarily and aggressively unwanted that i had functionally no involvement with it at all after some heated rebukes of my initial attempts to manage its development.

[Chada1]

I understand people have issues with Marlon that have gone on for over 4 years, but he is one of the biggest contributors of Lore for Aurora in general, he practically created Auroras' entire setting...

Taking him on a deputy just for that fact seems apt, and those who have an issue with him, can simply talk to the Unathi Loremaster who is his manager and never have to speak to him at all... It's a DEPUTY. They simply write and handle delegated duties from their manager, the Unathi lore dev.

Marlon is *over qualified* for that, and if he just shhhs and people talk to his manager instead of him directly if they have an issue with him, there's no problem here at all, only benefits. 

+1 here, on the caveat that Marlon should have to try his best to be polite as hecc to those who dislike him.

[Marlon P.]

Thank you, Chada!
 

10 hours ago, Chada1 said:

try his best to be polite as hecc to those who dislike him.

I always work to be respectful. I don't have the energy or interest in being rude to people on purpose. I would only add that these people should also be polite to me or any deputy chosen.

[Resi]

Marlon is wonderful. When I think of the most fun I ever had on Aurora, I think of 2016-2018, during Marlon’s time as big lore daddy. I’m sure there’s a real word for that role but I forget.

 

The time and effort he’s dedicated to building up this server is admirable.  His events were good- consistent, well written, involving amazing numbers of players, with lasting in game repercussions.  He was open to input, he was good at flexibility, and most importantly, he facilitated RP in a fun and immersive way.

 

Even when I was convinced we were big time enemies in like 2017, he was still responding to DMs to go into detail on his world building and to share advice.
 

I have every faith that he will excel in any lore role you give him.

 

Give him the position.  He will easily be amongst your strongest writers. 

[Resilynn]

Oh Jesus I forgot my login but I found it as soon as I submitted. Still, +1.

[Marlon P.]

Thank you Resi!

I worked up a draft for two parts of a project I'd like to see, which is minor cultures and religions on Moghes that have on station impact, creating roleplay through restrictions or ways to look at the world that shows the diversity of Moghes. This philosophy of mine started with the Si'akh, who have the strictest gameplay impact so far with the requirement that all food be raw and their only liquids can be water. 

Rimworld, which came long after I had this idea, actually categorized and implemented this with the ideologion system really well. Am I declaring Rimworld's creator shamelessly stole my ideas? Some might say that...

The Gazal Clans, and the Xoetl'akh faith.

Overview

Both of these groups were radically altered by the Contact War. These are closely related but not interchangeable The gameplay impact is their emphasis on blood within the body and its importance to their spiritualism. It also ties into existing lore, and compliments the general Unathi cultural importance on cycles. The impact of the religion is mostly social. 

I've also included "sayings" and things like the gazal style of dress and mannerisms differences to show how their climate in colder regions has affected them.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tOOOS3e9TEqR0W8NyqfkcqYAZMmFIglTk6ZD0khc9c0/edit#

I like threes when it comes to these things, so I would make two additional ones. Then on top of what I've proposed in my OP I think anything else I do is building on what exists and/or doing whatever Haydizzle and Deadlantern want me to do!

 

[Haydizzle]

Thanks for applying! You are insanely talented when it comes to hitting the drawing board and generating ideas. Brotendo, Coalf, and Desven come to mind in this regard. You also (ostensibly) have experience with both the genre for which we write as well as interacting with the lore.

 

However, I must deny this application for a few reasons. One is that, as stated by others and now myself, it is felt that the direction the lore is heading does not match your visions for it. We simply would run into too many differences of direction when it came to a road map. Another reason is I am wanting to give other people chances to impact the lore. You got to spearhead and build the foundation for almost every species; I want to give fresh blood a chance to inject their own ideas, sprinkle their own seasonings, add their own mix to the universe we play in. Additionally, your conduct and lasting impression on the staff team was a mixed bag. Finally, and this one is more personal, I feel it would be incredibly awkward to have to discuss potential changes or new arcs as the boss of the person who wrote the lore rather than the other way around.

 

Nonetheless, my gratitude for applying and sitting through the slew of questions and commentary from other people. This application is closed.