I Want To Bring Back Goldman

[SleepyWolf]

Captain Goldman was a very divisive character I played for about a year - through 2021. His actions as captain were often very antagonistic to the crew - and that was seen as positive and negative to many players involved in his escapades.

 

The last I said of Goldman was: 'Goldman IC'ly will be transferred back to Eridani where his style of work is encouraged and admired - on a level of administration that's less exposed. He won't be played in game.' CCIA was moderately involved in this decision but I can't access the chat logs since Lancer's old discord account was hacked and deleted. (i think Lancer was involved)

 

I want to bring him back and play him - not as Captain, but as a representative for Nanotrasen or the S.C.C. Someone who doesn't have command of the crew, but is a suggestive antagonistic force to the Captain. I believe this disconnection from actual commanding duties will let most players who do want to obey his command do so, and those who don't agree be able to deny it.

 

I would like feedback on this idea from those who would or wouldn't like to see Goldman; I'm not DEAD SET on bringing him back, and with the feedback I'd also like CCIA's opinion. I do miss playing Goldman, and I think he has a bit to bring to the Horizon's setting.

 

thanks

 

[lukebr2]

i love Goldman as a character because he does not sugarcoat stuff and is actively discriminatory with dregs, wicht is a great source of RP and conflict, wicht makes my rounds way more intresting

+1 for me 

[Peppermint]

Goldman was fun if you weren't on the other side of it. Too many rounds were just plain miserable due to his tendency to entirely take over and be the protagonist. I dislike the character and don't want him back as he entirely derailed rounds and made absolutely everything revolve around him. The obvious one that comes to mind is where he held the round hostage for hours due to 'not wanting to embarrass himself to NT'. Sure, okay - but the issue there is this is a video game and it affected people's ooc ability to restart the darn thing and move on. 

I have very limited trust in how he would somehow be better in a representative role, other than the fact he'd be easier to just ignore I suppose. However, I feel the same tendency to try and dominate rounds and become the centre of attention at the loss of other people would still be a thing. Likewise 'it's just the character' doesn't work to my eyes when people have a choice over what kind of character they are willing to play, and sometimes that just doesn't work in a group setting where everyone needs to contribute to the round.

[4000daniel1]

I like Goldman. I'm a fan of characters in general that don't hold back much on being a bit straight up evil, which I think describes Goldman pretty well, and I never felt it got negatively out of line to where he was unpleasant to interact with OOCly. Though that being said, I've only had two or three interactions with him personally.

I think it'd be neat to have the bond villain back on the Horizon.

[KingOfThePing]

We two talked about this, not Lancer (Lanze - Lancer, I blame Lancer for this naming smiliarity). We had a long, long talk because if I remember it right, I was handling the IR Goldman was involved (once again) and I didnt want to force you to delete Goldman or something like that, because I think he's a pretty nice character. 

 

You are free to hit me up again on Discord to talk about it again (Lanze#2028) because as I think I told you back then we can make it work somehow.

[SleepyWolf]

I KNEW IT FUCK

[NewOriginalSchwann]

8 hours ago, Peppermint said:

Goldman was fun if you weren't on the other side of it. Too many rounds were just plain miserable due to his tendency to entirely take over and be the protagonist. I dislike the character and don't want him back as he entirely derailed rounds and made absolutely everything revolve around him. The obvious one that comes to mind is where he held the round hostage for hours due to 'not wanting to embarrass himself to NT'. Sure, okay - but the issue there is this is a video game and it affected people's ooc ability to restart the darn thing and move on. 

I have very limited trust in how he would somehow be better in a representative role, other than the fact he'd be easier to just ignore I suppose. However, I feel the same tendency to try and dominate rounds and become the centre of attention at the loss of other people would still be a thing. Likewise 'it's just the character' doesn't work to my eyes when people have a choice over what kind of character they are willing to play, and sometimes that just doesn't work in a group setting where everyone needs to contribute to the round.

Seconding this opinion. Towards the end of your time playing as Goldman, I was actively avoiding rounds in which he was played due to his tendency to hijack rounds and turn them into Goldman Station (also featuring you, the player, as an extra sometimes). Frankly, sometimes it's good to leave a character behind and move on.

[Caelphon]

Goldman certainly was a character that you knew would at least make extended interesting - for lowpop, the predominate period which I play in. I do believe that returning as a Captain without additional structure to the character to address the above feedback may not be the best, however, in the position of a corporate liason would work well. Its a roleplay intensive role, which you excell at, and I think his lack of expanded authority would alleviate most of the issues that people have with the character. Additionally, people have different perspectives on Goldman, and I enjoyed most of the rounds that he featured in. 

I think hosting a forum like this (discussing the criticisms and requesting feedback) is definitely a step in the right direction, and I applaud you for doing so. Goodluck! 

[Boggle08]

The reasons why I liked Goldman are the same reasons why someone else would despise him as a character, and argue for his incompatibility as a whitelisted command character.

Many of the rounds involving him end up revolving around him, whether because the people who rolled antag decided to fuck with him on their own or if Goldman himself decided to make a command decision so absurd, incompetent, or unfair that it dramatically shifted the narrative of the round. He was unpredictable, antagonistic, and dangerous. His command decisions often blew up in his face, and he was often the architect of his own undoing. He was, and will continue to be, the only command character that actually embodied the hostile, inhumane nature that a corporate setting entails. 

I liked him as a character, and the effect he had on rounds, but he tested or violated nearly every precedent we have for command whitelist expectations in the process.

 

@SleepyWolf If Goldman were to return as a Liaison, what would that look like? What would be some typical interactions between command and crew we could expect? How would Goldman as a "suggestive antagonistic force" manifest? 

[Omicega]

46 minutes ago, Boggle08 said:

The reasons why I liked Goldman are the same reasons why someone else would despise him as a character, and argue for his incompatibility as a whitelisted command character.

Many of the rounds involving him end up revolving around him, whether because the people who rolled antag decided to fuck with him on their own or if Goldman himself decided to make a command decision so absurd, incompetent, or unfair that it dramatically shifted the narrative of the round. He was unpredictable, antagonistic, and dangerous. His command decisions often blew up in his face, and he was often the architect of his own undoing. He was, and will continue to be, the only command character that actually embodied the hostile, inhumane nature that a corporate setting entails. 

I liked him as a character, and the effect he had on rounds, but he tested or violated nearly every precedent we have for command whitelist expectations in the process.

IMO, the character is basically incompatible with a cooperative roleplay environment like Aurora. It might fit better into a tabletop setting or something, but monopolising 2:30 hours of time from 20+ people constantly and having such a dramatic shift from what a 'regular' command player gives the crew was often pretty overbearing.

You're entitled to your opinion on how the character worked to influence rounds, but I don't think it's anything to heap praise on or be proud of. It just came across as selfish, really, whether it was wilful or not. I'm happy they were retired when people made their negative feedback known, at least. I wouldn't have any particular desire to see them come back, though, even as a liaison.

[Arrow768]

23 hours ago, SleepyWolf said:

The last I said of Goldman was: 'Goldman IC'ly will be transferred back to Eridani where his style of work is encouraged and admired - on a level of administration that's less exposed. He won't be played in game.' CCIA was moderately involved in this decision but I can't access the chat logs since Lancer's old discord account was hacked and deleted. (i think Lancer was involved)

Afaik Goldman was permanently transferred to Eridani as a result of a Incident Report with the alternative being to fire Goldman.
If you want to bring him back to the station ship you would have to appeal the outcome of that IR.
Doing so without appealing the IR in question would be considered bypassing a CCIA Action (and a OOC issue).

It is certainly possible to appeal the CCIA Action and return Goldman.
I do not recommend to do so, as some of Goldmans antics were rather "whacky" and he was primarily "saved" by the fact that a lot of the things he did took place during antag rounds where it was not possible to IR him effectively due to the possible antag involvement.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Arrow768

[KingOfThePing]

Oh, right. I completely forgot that it is a permanent reassignment. I just checked.

 

While this changes nothing what I have discussed with CCIA internally and with you, you still have to appeal it.

[SleepyWolf]

Alright - thought about it and Goldman will remain in Eridani. he was enjoyable while he lasted...

[KingOfThePing]

Farewell, sweet prince