Uniform Conformity Sprite Discussion Thread

[Faye <3]

Hi, all

I am posting this thread for the discussion f the uniform PRs posted by Wezzy. In particular, these. 

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/13773/ - original PR

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/13936 - bugfix that changes uniforms again

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/13962 - more labcoat changes

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/13973 - knee/thigh boot removal, new boot recolor.

 

There was previously a Relay Discord thread made by the PR creator to discuss this subject, but I believe a forums thread is warranted due to how much the PRs effect, and how easy it is to miss Discord threads, especially one in the Relay which not all of the server uses. To be honest, I do not really like any of these. They feel like change for the sake of change. I understand that a lot of work went into them, but they are not better than the sprites they wish to replace. The colors in particular are not good. Especially the removal of black from boot colors, this will make loadouts look much worse.

I do not think these PRs should have been merged without a forums feedback thread.

[Bear]

As I echoed in the discord thread.

I 100% appreciate the time and effort put into this, however, the original NBT sprites (save for the PMCG sprites) were much better. The more vibrant originals were on a whole more appeasing to the eye.

 

The black boot was fine as it was. I'm not sure I'd call boots fetish material.if it's difficult to maintain the alternates that's one thing but let's leave it at that.

My personal preference would be to see the old sprites restored.

[Ramke]

I have not played the non-Idris factions, so I cannot speak much for them. I don't believe the new shading is better, as argued in the discord thread as well (the new "black" is brighter than a grey floor tile). Here's a the new Zavodskoi black beret with a floor tile background:

One thing I am dismayed about is the Idris labcoats changing. It has went through multiple iterations of not having a logo or having a different trim. While they would have been nice on their own, replacing the existing sprites has ruined the particular aesthetic that they once provided (from a large Idris logo that encompassed the entire back to a generic golden square) - I would be fine if they were alternative additions and not replacements, particularly with the golden trim ones. The same could be said for most uniform changes that I've witnessed - I personally preferred the older variations, and would want the back.

Here is the old and new Idris coat, side-by-side:

 

[RisingValiant]

I desperately want an alternative nanotrasen labcoat with the colors swapped, and new scrubs options. I like that surgeons have an actual uniform now but NT is really neglected as for cosmetics, even a simple pallette swap would help a lot.

[restricted]

The CMO labcoat is completely out of place being in medical. It actually matches the BC uniforms pretty well.

[Alfa1561]

I agree entirely on the Idris labcoat. I loved being able to see the full logo on the back of it. As for scrubs, I actually love the new selection of scrubs and have no issue with them personally.

 

The new black to gray change however is jarringly different and I'm not a fan.

[Zelmana]

Why were some investigator things touched?

Now instead of an ubiased source it looks as though we have no option but to look like Idris shills. Hardly any options for PMCG. Removal of the hardworn and black suits- why? Investigations has always been a "you're a detective, you don't have to wear 100% cop uniform"

This whole step away from black is sad and I think fun police. No, not fun police- because that diminishes whats going on here into a simple binary option of us vs them. I think what's going on here is an attempt to have some corporate unity but that comes at the price of character customization and uniqueness. As a heavy roleplay server we should permit character creation options within a certain degree of flexibility, and what's happened here is clearly crossing a line of uncomfortability for a lot of people.

How far will character creativity be pushed back for the sake of corporate unity at the cost of player retention and overall aesthetic choice?

[Zelmana]

Something I will add-

I don't like the blue. My sec characters are Nexus Corp. I don't care if we removed the word "Eridani" from it. I still show up to work in not security blue, but Idris blues.
A reminder to those spriting that Nexus Corp as well as other subsidiaries of PMCG are not Eridani based.

[Marlon P.]

I agree with zelmana's points.

2 hours ago, Zelmana said:

How far will character creativity be pushed back for the sake of corporate unity at the cost of player retention and overall aesthetic choice?

Especially this.

[NewOriginalSchwann]

Completely agree on the Idris labcoats, the ones we have now are a big downgrade. Most of the other labcoats (and the berets, for that matter) are also downgrades and have lost a lot of what makes the unique, with Zeng-Hu in particular now looking incredibly washed-out and dull (see below). The colors have overall become a lot less vibrant, and it looks like they were accidentally put into a washing machine that contained bleach.

I'll additionally echo what others have said in the thread: the switch from black being black to being a kind of steel grey/blue tone is really weird to me, and doesn't make a lot of sense. The Zavodskoi black beret and black uniform now look more like PMCG equipment than anything Zavodskoi should wear. In fact, they are essentially almost the same sprite (see below). This makes your argument about the old EPMC paramedic uniform intruding on the color scheme of Zavodskoi hold even less weight, as now we have a nearly 1:1 copy of Zavodskoi's color scheme already in-game. I challenge anybody to tell the berets and caps apart from the back sprite, as I don't think there's a single pixel of difference.

Finally, the new security "stab vests" look awful. I don't want to have to cosplay as the VDV every round or select a jacket in order to get rid of them, please remove them from officer spawns and place them in the loadout or completely remove them.

[Peppermint]

Out of interest, why was this a discord thread? Very obscure place to discuss things and find any kind of info.

 

Anyway yeah, these sprites aren't great. We've gone from fairly intricate (as far as ss13 goes) uniforms to these blocks of colour that are a lot more 'ss13 style' than much else. Can't say I'm a fan either and do not really follow the logic behind them.

 

 

[stev]

I know I'm a little late to the party here but I just wanted to add, the "fix" PR swapped around the Officer and Warden uniforms for most factions, except Idris which didn't swap but then had the Warden uniform tweaked to no longer be consistent with either the other factions' uniforms or even a lot of other Idris uniforms. I think this is a pointless change that doesn't really add anything positive and reduces the overall visual cohesiveness of Security's uniforms. 

[Alfa1561]

23 hours ago, Peppermint said:

Out of interest, why was this a discord thread? Very obscure place to discuss things and find any kind of info.

 

Anyway yeah, these sprites aren't great. We've gone from fairly intricate (as far as ss13 goes) uniforms to these blocks of colour that are a lot more 'ss13 style' than much else. Can't say I'm a fan either and do not really follow the logic behind them.

 

 

Originally, the thread was made for reporting quick bugs to the PR author iirc, it just sort of evolved into feedback.

[Peppermint]

1 hour ago, Alfa1561 said:

Originally, the thread was made for reporting quick bugs to the PR author iirc, it just sort of evolved into feedback.

Ok that makes more sense

[restricted]

Oh also the new Zavod warden uniform makes you look less like an actual fascist and more like a 12 year old who discovered fascism via incel forum. I personally prefer the old one, the flappy long jacket is a bit eh to me.

[niennab]

The corporations should reflect a clear identity through their design and the players should pop against the background. I think a revert would suit the server's aesthetic a lot better.

[Lucaken]

I really really don't like that pretty much every PMCG security member now wears a hazard vest. It may have been fitting for some of the rougher PMCs, but it's certainly not something that represents all of them. Somewhat like what Nienna said, I think the corporate uniforms should reflect a wide range ideals held up by their group, a sort of mostly blank canvas that players can then decorate with our frankly massive selection of clothes.

What's particularly frustrating about the PMCG changes is that Himeans in specific have lore about wearing bright, hazard gear-y clothing as a fashion choice. Obviously they don't hold a monopoly on it, but it still feels awkward. I think we should definitely revert the uniforms in the case of the PMCG - if anybody misses the aesthetic, hazard vests are already available through the loadout.

[stev]

55 minutes ago, Lucaken said:

I really really don't like that pretty much every PMCG security member now wears a hazard vest. It may have been fitting for some of the rougher PMCs, but it's certainly not something that represents all of them. Somewhat like what Nienna said, I think the corporate uniforms should reflect a wide range ideals held up by their group, a sort of mostly blank canvas that players can then decorate with our frankly massive selection of clothes.

What's particularly frustrating about the PMCG changes is that Himeans in specific have lore about wearing bright, hazard gear-y clothing as a fashion choice. Obviously they don't hold a monopoly on it, but it still feels awkward. I think we should definitely revert the uniforms in the case of the PMCG - if anybody misses the aesthetic, hazard vests are already available through the loadout.

These hazard vests are suit slot items that spawn on all Security Officers regardless of faction, you can't see the uniforms in char preview since the jackets spawn on top of them. 

[Lucaken]

6 minutes ago, stev said:

These hazard vests are suit slot items that spawn on all Security Officers regardless of faction, you can't see the uniforms in char preview since the jackets spawn on top of them. 

Still not a big fan, for largely the same reasons. Even if they can be removed, people seem to keep it on (from my limited experience watching rounds), and that then relates to the issue of aesthetics. We could make it loadout toggle-able (a la labcoats) but then you just have two seperate hazard vests, one for PMCG and one...for everyone else. It's weird either way.

[stev]

8 minutes ago, Lucaken said:

Still not a big fan, for largely the same reasons. Even if they can be removed, people seem to keep it on (from my limited experience watching rounds), and that then relates to the issue of aesthetics. We could make it loadout toggle-able (a la labcoats) but then you just have two seperate hazard vests, one for PMCG and one...for everyone else. It's weird either way.

There isn't a unique PMCG sec vest/jacket, all Officers get the same one that annoyingly matches the PMCG colour scheme. 

[Lucaken]

…Wow, that is even worse than I thought. Everything I said goes double if it’s for every officer. If it didn’t fit for some of the more professional PMCs, It definitely doesn’t look right on Zavodskoi or Idris either!

[wowzewow]

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/14041

 

Here. I've tried to address most of these concerns.

 

Also. This should be in Ideas and Suggestions.

Edited May 21, 2022 by wowzewow

[NewOriginalSchwann]

Quote

"A depreciated design, the label on the tag still reads 'PROPERTY OF NECROPOLIS INDUSTRIES'. Nostalgic."

 

Remove this, Necropolis hasn't been a relevant lore entity for multiple years now and mentioning it now is simply going to confuse people.

[VisVirific]

4 hours ago, wowzewow said:

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/14041

 

Here. I've tried to address most of these concerns.

 

Also. This should be in Ideas and Suggestions.

So, I gotta ask, what does this PR going to mean for the PR that re-adds most of the removed EPMC stuff that you removed without mentioning anything?

[stev]

3 hours ago, wowzewow said:

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/14041

 

Here. I've tried to address most of these concerns.

 

Also. This should be in Ideas and Suggestions.

I'm gonna be honest, this causes a lot more problems than it solves, and the changelog is extremely misleading. Going to go through this point by point.

• Idris and Zeng-Hu labcoat tweaks are good.
• "Adds surplus security uniforms. They're the old Aurora corporate uniforms, tweaked to match the new uniforms. Also, I added some Idris ones, I guess. The old ones are near-identical to the ones we already have." and "Undoes the swapping of officer and warden uniforms, and tweaks the other uniforms accordingly." have a LOT of issues, though.

These "surplus security uniforms" are... Very, very weird. They mostly seem to be based off of the old EPMC and Zavodskoi Security contractor uniforms as a template, but tweaked a ton a load. Also, it's even stated in the PR that the Idris ones are "near-identical to the ones we already have," so I don't really understand why these are even here.

What's worse is the "undoes the swapping of officer and warden uniforms," which doesn't actually undo the swapping, for the Warden's part. What this actually does is... Really weird and complicated:

• Swaps new Warden and Investigator sprites (look at the 2 pixels on the breast pocket of Investigator, that's taken from the old Warden sprites), fully removing the nice PMCG all-grey and blue Warden uniform I made just 2 weeks ago from existence
• Makes Security Officer and Investigator uniforms literally identical, except from two pixels on the breast pocket of Investigator (which is actually from the Warden uniform)
• Makes all Zavod Security uniforms all-brown
• Recolours Zavod Warden uniform alone to be this really really bright shade of red that seems to have been removed as a colour on all other Zavod Security uniforms
• None of these touch Idris at all, for whatever reason

Spoiler

Zavod

PMCG

This isn't mentioned in the changelog or anything, but this includes the re-adding of EPMC items, except they've all been tweaked to be a weird halfway mishmash of the PMCG and EPMC palettes. Also, this doesn't allow for any of Medical to take EPMC uniforms, which is disappointing given the EPMC First Responder uniform was one of the most requested EPMC items.

The descriptions for all of the "surplus uniforms" are also extremely strange:

• The Zavod surplus (which is the old Zavod black sec uniform) is named "necropolis industries security uniform", described as "A depreciated design, the label on the tag still reads 'PROPERTY OF NECROPOLIS INDUSTRIES'. Nostalgic." This ties an alternately coloured uniform to a long-defunct lore entity while including a reference to the fact that this thread and other such feedback has led to it getting added.
• The "EPMC security uniform" says that it is "A uniform that has seemingly survived the corporate re-structuring of the Private Military Contracting Group, holding it gives you a sense of familiarity." This does not reference the fact that it's even from the EPMC at all, apart from the name, and to someone unfamiliar with the EPMC would just seem like a weirdly named rejected PMCG uniform.
• The surplus "idris security uniform" has the description "A scrapped uniform design for Idris security. Not wearing a tie is a benefit for some, you know." There's no outright lore issues here, but it's weird to call it 'scrapped' when it's clearly, like, still used, since someone's wearing it.

And finally, a miscellaneous holdover change, but the EPMC shoulder patch is still mislabelled as PMCG while sticking to the EPMC palette/aesthetic, while the new PMCG armband still isn't in the loadout.

Also, the EPMC ERT don't spawn with these EPMC uniforms and instead spawn with PMCG gear, which is really weird.