Some Job Mergers and Extensions

[wowzewow]

So, there's two jobs that are arguably the most understaffed, yet desperately needed by their peers. So it ends up so someone has to *begrudgingly* be forced to play them so said partner jobs can function properly.

I've heard stories of people making characters just so they can simply do these jobs for 30 minutes just to cryo immediately after. What are these jobs?

Hydroponics and Chemistry.

Honestly, I don't blame people. They're the most one dimensional jobs ever - basically ingredientslaves to their counterparts. Yes - people can get creative, but they're limited by both mechanical and roleplay capacity.

So here's my proposal.

1. Merge Hydroponics and Xenobotany. Honestly, it's very obvious that both jobs are half of a single one.

For Hydroponics, once you've done growing all prerequisite vegetables, you're done. Cryo.

For Xenobotany, once you've finished tinkering and growing a funny bluespace tomato, you look for an antag

(but that's powergaming, so you can't.) If it's extended, even better. Straight to Cryo.

 

2. Move chemistry to be a science job, or at the very least, a Med-Sci job.

It's very obvious from how Scientists are able to do chemistry, with their own chemical dispensers and whatnot.

Which is odd, since Pharmacists can't do chemistry. Scientists can basically *do* Chemistry.

So what is supposed to be one job supporting both departments becomes a one-dimensional job of being a medicine slave.

Which is quite depressing, seeing how chemistry is missing out on y'know, having fun with the job, doing experiments, making bombs etc.

So I'm asking to restrict scientists from doing chemistry. Because that's the chemist's job. To do.

 

[La Villa Strangiato]

If I had one addition to make this post, it would be to keep the age requirements on Pharmacist and Gardener the same, just because there are definitely people out there who have pharmacists and gardeners younger than 30 that might get made odd by making a pharmacist or a gardener a pure science role.

If you wanted to make pharmacist a med-sci role, I would suggest just giving pharmacist medical and science comms and allowing them to access the basic parts of science (the main lab, the chemistry hole, testing range, etc). As a pharmacist you're probably still going to be making medications and prescriptions and stuff, so it makes sense for you to have a main base in medical. But once you're done with most of the essentials, you can mosey back and forth between medical and science as you will. (Also gives a point to the crate of grenades on the pharmacist table that you're frowned on for actually using).

[Carver]

I don't really like job mergers, but having Pharmacist moved to Science and just given the old med-sci headset would be interesting. Main concern is that would make CMOs unable to perform the duty of making meds when there's no Pharmacist, and I'm quite certain most RDs wouldn't bother in the same situation (not that RDs exist very often at all compared to CMOs).

I think Hydroponicists are fine as-is, it's a chill role that doesn't demand most of your time which fits perfectly for the generally low-stress service roles. Xenobotany being it's own thing is sensible because the average Hydroponicist character I wouldn't trust anywhere near mutated or randomized plants (or k'ois), and I really don't want to see younger (non-lab assistant) science roles.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Carver
Minor word adjustments for clarity because I foresee poor reading comprehension

[niennab]

Personally I don't think we need to lose hydroponics. When there's a chef but no gardener, it's perfectly acceptable for Chefs to move the fridge and use the space themselves. Like Carver said, it's a chill role that doesn't demand a lot of your time and I think it's important we have these less intense or demanding roles as a HRP server. I don't frequent science and medical enough to comment on chemistry though.

But, I don't really agree with the argument that these jobs have nothing to them or the only answer is to go to cryo. People should be willing to engage with roleplay outside of mechanics.

[UponASeaOfStars]

obligatory "merge pharmacist and physician" comment here

[Dreamix]

Quote

I've heard stories of people making characters just so they can simply do these jobs for 30 minutes just to cryo immediately after.

That's a people problem, not a job problem.

I've heard other people say, they love these jobs, cause they do chems/whatever for 30 minutes at round start, and then are free to roleplay for the remaining ~2 hours, uninterrupted by their job.

And both gardening and chemistry aren't even "critical" to ship operation. Chemistry especially so - if there's no chemist, no one's really crying about it, as medical is 100% (or maybe like 99%) capable of treating anything without the chemist's special fancy chems. So if a player does chems for 30 minutes and cryoes immediately after... Just why.

[KingOfThePing]

2 hours ago, UponASeaOfStars said:

obligatory "merge pharmacist and physician" comment here

Obligatory "it doesnt make sense at all no matter how much you bend your mind" comment here.

[Confused rock]

58 minutes ago, KingOfThePing said:

Obligatory "it doesnt make sense at all no matter how much you bend your mind" comment here.

Plenty of ways to bend your mind. Could simply say the chem dispenser *doesn't* require significant skill to use. It's the future, no reason it can't do the hard stuff itself. Anything's better than chem p much not existing cause no one wants to do it.

[KingOfThePing]

Or just make the role more fun (however that will be) instead of stripping down more and more jobs and alt-titles. We are a HRP setting - we all subscribed to that when we started playing here.

[Cnaym]

7 hours ago, wowzewow said:

So, there's two jobs that are arguably the most understaffed, yet desperately needed by their peers.

I can raise that point about almost every job we currently have. It's not an issue. Like something play it, don't like something don't play it. None of these jobs are required. When lowpop interns treat eye damage with carrot sticks than we should be able to survive without a chemist on highpop as well.

Engineering is understaffed as well, yet they didn't make the list. Most of us probably find them more important.

The real question is do we want to have people work together to solve issues - risk of not having every job filled,

Or do we just add auto docs and say it's roughly on the level of eva training, as in almost everyone should be able to handle it.

Imho the lack of certain things creates a changing set of circumstances that requires creative problem solving or sometimes just annoying extra steps. Players problem solving through interaction and RP is what makes the Aurora a little more interesting to interact with, taking that away one step at a time is something I strongly advise against.

We've pretty much had the same discussion about R&D for years now, yet people still play the role and do the do. Sometimes you get energy glaive spam, sometimes you get to beg operations for nanopaste.

I like Pings idea, find ways to make roles more fun, add tasks and mechanics to keep people engaged for more than the startup. Engineer mains been screaming for years about getting anything else to do besides busy events and maint bars, yet nothing was really added.

[Scheveningen]

Not every job on the Horizon has to serve an essential function

[wowzewow]

Well, it's perfectly fine for hydroponics to stay a chill role - it's not like Xenobotanist is particularly crucial to the functioning of the ship as well. It's just that with the jobs merged, it gives people more FREEDOM to roleplay whatever you'd like. You're a stoner trying to genetically breed the greatest strain of cannabis imaginable? It's possible now. You're a SUPER SERIOUS RESEARCH MAN. You can do it too. You just want to be The Watermelon Seller? That's fine too. I'm not for pushing for more responsibility here - just more freedom of choice.

Which is also in vein of the problem-solving quick thinking whatever. It's ultimately dictated by the players, so why not give them more mechanical freedom.

 

Also chemistry SHOULD be at a junction inbetween science and medical. So you know, both departments can interact with them. Not because it's going to be crucial to both departments, no, but it's basically doubling the roleplay that chemistry can get by virtue of being in the middle of two departments.

[La Villa Strangiato]

6 minutes ago, wowzewow said:

 

Also chemistry SHOULD be at a junction inbetween science and medical. So you know, both departments can interact with them. Not because it's going to be crucial to both departments, no, but it's basically doubling the roleplay that chemistry can get by virtue of being in the middle of two departments.

15 hours ago, Dreamix said:

That's a people problem, not a job problem.

I've heard other people say, they love these jobs, cause they do chems/whatever for 30 minutes at round start, and then are free to roleplay for the remaining ~2 hours, uninterrupted by their job.

And both gardening and chemistry aren't even "critical" to ship operation. Chemistry especially so - if there's no chemist, no one's really crying about it, as medical is 100% (or maybe like 99%) capable of treating anything without the chemist's special fancy chems. So if a player does chems for 30 minutes and cryoes immediately after... Just why.

5 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

Not every job on the Horizon has to serve an essential function

I agree with all of these things, actually. I find it very comfy to finish all of my chems 30~ min in and then just have chill roleplay/do miscellaneous stuff around the medbay/sometimes be an extra hand when things get really crazy, and I am very fond of my pharmacist character which makes it fun to roleplay! I do wish I had more mechanical stuff to do sometimes, which is why I wouldn't mind having some science access and a med-sci headset as a pharmacist.

All the same, I don't need science to enjoy the role. I take pleasure in simple, rote tasks.

[wowzewow]

Oh yes, I should probably clear the air on this : This is *not* a destructive merger, i.e. one or the other is going to get removed for the other. It's an additive merge. Basically "why not both?" kind of deal.

For example, Hydroponics would be nearly identical - however, there's a door that leads to a Xenobotanist backroom that hooks up to the science department.

Same with Chemistry. It'd just mean there's more counters to poke your head out of. You walk to the right, it's medical. You walk to the left, it's science.

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by wowzewow

[Carver]

To the contrary, I don't believe Xenobotany/Hydroponics need more freedom. Xenobotany plays with, mechanically and ICly speaking, very dangerous plants that are well capable of harming or outright killing crew. I don't need to see the average Hydroponicist playing with death nettles, k'ois and similar things again - nor would I trust a non-insignificant amount of the existing gardener characters with access to said things. This is one of those things where I'd have to see a minimum age increase for the role given the education you'd require to ever be trusted near such dangerous specimens, but that would outright kill off a few pre-existing gardeners/hydroponicists so perhaps it's better to leave them separate.

[wowzewow]

21 hours ago, Carver said:

To the contrary, I don't believe Xenobotany/Hydroponics need more freedom. Xenobotany plays with, mechanically and ICly speaking, very dangerous plants that are well capable of harming or outright killing crew. I don't need to see the average Hydroponicist playing with death nettles, k'ois and similar things again - nor would I trust a non-insignificant amount of the existing gardener characters with access to said things. This is one of those things where I'd have to see a minimum age increase for the role given the education you'd require to ever be trusted near such dangerous specimens, but that would outright kill off a few pre-existing gardeners/hydroponicists so perhaps it's better to leave them separate.

Well, how's this for an idea - you still can Hydroponics characters. How? Well, now Xenobotany has access to regular hydroponics, however not vice versa. So the 18 year old Botanist can still exist, but just not go into the science backrooms. On the flip side, the 40 year old Xenobotanist can fill in for the Hydroponicist if they wanted. However, they can stay cooped up in their science lab if they want.

[Carver]

I don't really have an issue with that but it'd need a new type of headset: Service-Science. A bit niche but giving Xenobotanists extra optional things to do is never bad.

[NerdyVampire]

Something that would bind hydroponicists, xenobotanists and the pharmacy through work would be great. There is 'fertile soil' for some cooperation between them and interdepartmental roleplay.