RnD Lockboxes

[LordFowl]

Except protopistols are arguably the most powerful weapon that RnD can make?

Anyways, I still say that while the idea of regulating what RnD can and cannot make is a good idea, lockboxes specifically are dumb. They're almost ridiculous in how they break the immersion, even further bastardizing the idea of RnD actually doing research instead of just printing out stuff.

Since we've revived this thread, I revive the idea of blacklists; the RD and Captain have access to a computer that controls what categories the research department can make items from. It would work like this:

The RD sets weapon research to blacklist. No items utilizing weapons research as a requirement can be made.

The RD sets weapon research to monitor. Items utilizing weapons research as a requirement can be made, but when they are made is recorded on the computer (It could also be possible to require the RnD computer itself to require an ID card for monitored research, and then the overwatch computer could also record the IDs that make said items.)

This solves the problem of immersion (Because it is ridiculous to imagine the research device spitting out everything in neatly id-locked boxes), and actually is less draconian than ID boxes, which means it is less obtrusive to research. The RD simply has to disable weapons research being disabled by default if they want weapons research, and they can re-enable it at any time. Both the Captain and the RD have access to logs stating when weapons were made (and optimally who made them). This also means that RnD research is still viable for antagonists because all they have to do is break into the RD office (Potentially consideration of the RD Overwatch Terminal not being id-locked for this reason. Otherwise an emag would do it.) and they can make weapons once more.

What if there is no RD? Then you'll have to consult with the captain. What if there is no captain? Then you'll have to consult with the Head of Personnel, who can access it if needed. What if there is no Head of Personnel? Then you'll have to consult with the AI, but they're under no obligation to let you just because you order them to. You'll notice the Head of Security is not mentioned here, nor the Warden. The Head of Security and especially the Warden should not have access to this device. While they could have access to the device that monitors who and when weapons were made, they should not under any normal operation be able to regulate what research can and cannot be made without additional access. They are security, not administration.

[Lady_of_Ravens]

Yes... monitoring and being able to lock out weapons production are a good idea. I'd say have it set at monitoring at round-start as there's no reason to be restrictive during rounds without sufficient command staff. It can already be hard enough to do science/R&D during dead hour.

[Guest]

Allowing the RD more administration power in regards to what research is being done and what research materials are being pooped out of the protolathe is a more elegant and pro-bureaucratic solution to the issue.

It's a lot better than just forcing ID-locks at roundstart for guns. The RD is in turn responsible for their department, and needs to be keeping a close ear to the ground about what is happening, as they should.

[Spider]

PLEASE

I've seen 5-6 rounds where scientists run around with these protopistols in their bagpacks, this one time one of them tried fighting a nukie and it just seemed so fucking wrong.

Bring back lockboxes, honestly they shouldn't be trusting employees that arent security/heads of staff with weapons.

[Mofo1995]

PLEASE

I've seen 5-6 rounds where scientists run around with these protopistols in their bagpacks, this one time one of them tried fighting a nukie and it just seemed so fucking wrong.

Bring back lockboxes, honestly they shouldn't be trusting employees that arent security/heads of staff with weapons.

Is there anyway you could file complaints about these players (most specifically the one that tried to fight a nuke op)? This is terrible RP and the players themselves need taken care of in some capacity.

[Filthyfrankster]

PLEASE

I've seen 5-6 rounds where scientists run around with these protopistols in their bagpacks, this one time one of them tried fighting a nukie and it just seemed so fucking wrong.

Bring back lockboxes, honestly they shouldn't be trusting employees that arent security/heads of staff with weapons.

Is there anyway you could file complaints about these players (most specifically the one that tried to fight a nuke op)? This is terrible RP and the players themselves need taken care of in some capacity.

 

It's more or so considered an 'IC issue' when it comes to a scientist carrying around a fucking armory in their backpack.

[Spider]

PLEASE

I've seen 5-6 rounds where scientists run around with these protopistols in their bagpacks, this one time one of them tried fighting a nukie and it just seemed so fucking wrong.

Bring back lockboxes, honestly they shouldn't be trusting employees that arent security/heads of staff with weapons.

Is there anyway you could file complaints about these players (most specifically the one that tried to fight a nuke op)? This is terrible RP and the players themselves need taken care of in some capacity.

I've forgotten their name, but it was a lab assistant.

[TishinaStalker]

PLEASE

I've seen 5-6 rounds where scientists run around with these protopistols in their bagpacks, this one time one of them tried fighting a nukie and it just seemed so fucking wrong.

Bring back lockboxes, honestly they shouldn't be trusting employees that arent security/heads of staff with weapons.

Is there anyway you could file complaints about these players (most specifically the one that tried to fight a nuke op)? This is terrible RP and the players themselves need taken care of in some capacity.

 

It's more or so considered an 'IC issue' when it comes to a scientist carrying around a fucking armory in their backpack.

 

No it's not. If that happens, then ahelp it. Powergaming scientists are quickly dealt with.

That being said, back on-topic about lockboxes for weapons in RnD.

[w3bster]

I am bumping this issue up, as I wish to revive the discussion.

Recent talks on the discord have brought me to this.

With the recent weapons update, science has effectively become a militia. It's no longer something you can deal with ICly, or deal with CCIA or Adminhelp in general.

Every round there is a science antag, I can be almost certain they will start mass-producing some of the deadliest OP weaponry security would never be able to get their hands on.

Science isn't some sci-fi death squad type militia. It's a department that's filled with nerds to up the research for Nanotrasen.

I believe this has to be fixed code-wise by the re-implementation of Lockboxes, as it's become thoroughly imbalanced.

Again, this is not something that can be dealt with ICly. Unless you want CCIA accompanied with an ERT every shift to handle entire departments.

[Dreamix]

"Reimplementing lockboxes would:

1. Promote interdepartmental roleplay, with getting the forms signed by the right people, and getting the right people to unlock lockboxes

2. Prevent Science Militia gunning antags down, thereby promoting roleplay

3. Stop Science being more heavily armed than the station's Security force"

"b-but security can just come in and emp the shit out of you" No. That's not a solution to the problem, at all. First, emp's can hit innocent people with robotic limbs or organs, second: "See, when it's come down to 'who can robust better', there's an issue. Especially since scientists can perfectly and with ease wield fucking advanced weaponry, and there doesn't seem to be an issue with that".

Not having lockboxes is just problematic. That's it. +1

[Nanako]

This is absurd. I objectively denounce any and all parts of this idea

locking away the weapons is dumb, a science department isnt supposed to have constant scrutiny from uneducated civilians

We have the rule about not taking experiments outside the science department, thats fine enough

i dont see any more need for control, these ideas are just salt trying to ruin the fun of science department. It's already got a somewhat low playerbase

I don't know how so many people got it into their heads that this would be a good thing. People play science to RP mad scientists, and test with interesting and fun tools. Thats part of the experience, its what its players love about it. Don't try to take away others fun because it upsets you

the whole point of science is freedom, you go nuts experimenting with weapons and bombs and fancy tools. Creativity needs room to breathe. Thats what its small playerbase loves about it. Why would you want to rip the heart and soul out of this -science station- just because one department is having too much fun for your liking

and bureaucracy is not fun RP, it rarely adds much of anything

[NebulaFlare]

To be honest, I think this is an issue we should handle ICly.

Researchers are expected to be responsible: I play my own researcher, Karima, too terrified to do anything out of line, in fear of getting shipped back to Adohmai. We need some IC reason to keep scientists from validhunting and metagaming, while still keeping legitimate reasons open for taking weapons out of the lab.

Besides, not every round will have the available head of staff.

My suggestion is in two paths:

1) If weapons are taken out of research, make it a high-severity infraction (red level) and immediate grounds of termination. If it keeps happening, write incident reports to get the person kicked out of research.

2) Have weapons explode on the person, the moment they try to use it outside of research. Or, better yet, make a single area a 'weapon savezone' for testing them on station, and only that is explosion free. This can only be prevented by first unlocking the weapon with a Head of Staff ID. If unlocked, then the weapon can be carried anywhere. That way, if the situation is dire enough, validhunting scientists will need the assistance of the crew to use the weapon, and the crew will be available to stop him/her.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I'm mixed on this because while it prohibits bad scientist play it also punished legitimate scientists. Bureaucracy is a pain in the ass and it often takes an extremely long and convuluted process to get a single piece of paper signed.

Why not create a dialogue box when you are printing weapons in the RnD console or as an actual pop-up that says, "If you distribute or carry dangerous weapons outside RnD you take full responsibility for all legal actions taken against you."

Giving us a little clause that lets us weed out the well intentioned scientists who may simple not know about our regulations lets us punish more harshly the actual power gamers or chuckle heads.

[NebulaFlare]

I'm mixed on this because while it prohibits bad scientist play it also punished legitimate scientists. Bureaucracy is a pain in the ass and it often takes an extremely long and convuluted process to get a single piece of paper signed.

Why not create a dialogue box when you are printing weapons in the RnD console or as an actual pop-up that says, "If you distribute or carry dangerous weapons outside RnD you take full responsibility for all legal actions taken against you."

Giving us a little clause that lets us weed out the well intentioned scientists who may simple not know about our regulations lets us punish more harshly the actual power gamers or chuckle heads.

 

+Support

[Mofo1995]

I'm mixed on this because while it prohibits bad scientist play it also punished legitimate scientists. Bureaucracy is a pain in the ass and it often takes an extremely long and convuluted process to get a single piece of paper signed.

Why not create a dialogue box when you are printing weapons in the RnD console or as an actual pop-up that says, "If you distribute or carry dangerous weapons outside RnD you take full responsibility for all legal actions taken against you."

Giving us a little clause that lets us weed out the well intentioned scientists who may simple not know about our regulations lets us punish more harshly the actual power gamers or chuckle heads.

 

I said it to JB in staffchat, and I'll say it again. I heavily support this idea. Majority of the time, Directive 4 gets broken because the directives aren't listed anywhere in game, and no one knows about them unless they've been around for awhile. People break the regulation because they're ignorant, not because they're malicious. Of course, there are some who are malicious, but majority of the time they just had no idea. I'd also recommend doing this to people slimifying themselves, but that's a different suggestion.

[Ron]

While we on this, can we lock up bomb toxins as well?

Anyways, I fully disagree with the lockbox idea. It's pointless. The ability to blacklist certain items is good, I feel like what would be helpful. Also the notice jackboot said would be good as well.

[Synnono]

I'm with Nanako here. I like that there's a welcome risk of danger in the protolathe. The people in science are supposed to be trusted with the responsible use of the things they create and test.

If they fail in being responsible, it's an IC problem on the part of the RD, security, and other authorities.

[Guest]

Imagine having to deal with the same problem with different people being responsible for it every round. I wonder, is it the fault of each individual person that "abuse" what is readily available to be seized and let loose at their own discretion, or is it the fault of the system itself that has no security measures in place to at least prevent the worst case scenario from occurring?

I'll just shrug and not worry about it, because it's easier to leave things just the way they are.

[Bedshaped]

Scientists building weapons and going rambo probably is an OOC issue. I can't imagine a person who has devoted up to a decade studying a field of science following highschool has the ability to handle weapons like people who are highly trained.

I'm against this idea but would instead support a system that makes RnD more complex and actually feel like you're doing science. A new RnD shouldn't be able to have guides that say "Do X, Y and Z and you'll have max levels" but rather "RnD works by doing X, Y or Z" with complex features that are slightly randomized and require actual thought put into them.

[Nanako]

It's science, these people are educated professionals, not kids.

this isn't a civilian or family station, its a corporate research station, the whole place is specifically for research, everyone on board signed on knowing wierd science shit would happen around and possibly to them

Lockboxes and autoexploding weapons are both very dumb ideas, because you just built this weapon yourself. Why would you build a bomb into it, or craft a lockbox around it.

Science is about raw freedom, and the power of creation and experimentation. Sometimes that means a case study on the effects of a gatling laser on a vox face.

There is literally no problem here to solve. and most of the solutions to this lack of a problem are various parts illogical, absurd, and condescending

[VileFault]

Lockboxes and autoexploding weapons are both very dumb ideas, because you just built this weapon yourself. Why would you build a bomb into it, or craft a lockbox around it.

 

Well, lore-wise, the machines are supposed to construct the prototype. Scientists are only supposed to be helping it to reinvent the devices it is preprogramed to be able to create. So it seems reasonably plausible that, unless it was hacked, the protolathe could include a few safety features. The lockbox, in my opinion, is really clunky. I like the aforementioned solution of TG station - the firing pin that only allows the weapon to be shot in a specific area. I don't like the fact that it can /only/ be disabled by antag devices. A clever scientist should be able to disable it, whether by crafting another firing pin and replacing it, or merely screwdriver'ing the offending device off.

I don't see a huge problem with the way mechs are built. They are gigantic resource drains that take a while to construct, and they aren't exactly inconspicuous. If the RD doesn't catch unauthorized mechs, security will make sure they don't go far. This is in contrast to scientists who stow away a hi-tech arsenal in their bags. Maybe ICly, a driver of a combat mech on the Aurora needs to carry around "registration" with Head approval.

Edit: Looking back, I saw someone include an idea about a bomb that activates if it is fired in the wrong place. That doesn't really seem like a device that would contribute to crew safety, which is ostensibly the goal of weapons regulations. Though I have never played security, my general feeling is that criminals should be detained, not exploded.

[Filthyfrankster]

Just bumping this up

A few rounds ago we had an RnD worker

who did nothing but waste science materials on guns

who was carrying around lawgivers on person

not gonna name any names but holy shit

[canon35]

As I've said before, I approve of this. Even if the RD has access to it too, lockboxes would be fine and wouldn't gimp antags in any way if they used a e-mag. Yes, research may be delayed in the weapons department, but that would have to require no HoS, no warden, no RD, or possibly no HoP/Captain.

[Nanako]

this idea has been administratively vetoed