Miasma

[Killerhurtz]

Pretty much everything is implied in the title.

A new atmospheric gas identified as Miasma. Lore-wise, it would be a mixture of decomposition gasses and microbacteria.

Mechanics-wise, it would be a gas that creates a very thin fog at high concentrations. It would also be smellable (like a red text going "You smell a putrid odor"), and cause minute toxin damage. It would also, however, greatly increase (if not guarantee) infections to occur, and would have a chance to cause people exposed to it to be spontaneously affected by a random virus. And since it's decomposition gasses, it would also be combustible (to a much lesser degree than plasma, of course). As side effects, a high enough concentration could induce vomiting.

It would be created in a variety of ways, depending on how far we want to go:

-Decaying bodies. Dead people or animals, after let's say 10 minutes (not supposed to be realistic, but interesting), start emitting miasma.

-Infections. Infected people produce small amounts of miasma, proportional to the severity of the infection.

-Food rot. Food that isn't stored in a safe place (which, for all intents and purposes and to keep things simple, means all crates and lockers), will eventually decay into a "Rotten Mess" and emit miasma.

-Xenoarcheologic anomalies

-Ground blood that's been sitting there for a while

-Cultist Rune (passively so - make that rune somewhere, hide it, and there would be a mysterious source of miasma)

-Wounds. Unless sterilizine is used, wounds cause minute amounts of miasma, increasing the risk of infection.

Of course, since it's a gas, it would go into the atmospheric system - and so a miasma vent would need to be put in.

What would this bring?

Well, for one, no dead would be forgotten about. We would have an incentive to use the crematorium and to get people cloned ASAP. Also an incentive to get blood cleaned really fast, and for the chef to make things on-demand rather than just spam food and then go abuse the bar's services. Medbay could get a lot more interesting a lot faster - especially in the first few days where the people who don't read patch notes still don't use sterilizine. In general, it gives a lot more interaction with the dead.

Thoughts?

[Guest]

you could've picked any other half-decent mechanic from lfwb but instead you picked the shitty one. first off, lfwb doesn't process atmos in any respect at all. the coding of miasma is way outside any respect of atmos. the golden rule is to never, ever, ever touch atmos code (along with life.dm and the master).

to explain the mechanics of miasma "gas" real quick. all it is is a simple gaseous-like overlay that surrounds objects that are tagged to smell, and trigger whenever someone steps into the great venn diagram of subbering. rotten limbs, bodies, etc. depending on the amount of rotten limbs in the vicinity, the miasma is more or less intense. if a player sticks around miasma for too long without a gas mask or a wet cloth in their mouth, they begin to get a negative moodlet stack up to x3 regarding the intense stink. A couple seconds afterward, the player will forcibly vomit. oh right, did i mention that vomit also creates miasma? it's extremely obnoxious and difficult to get around.

Why would a body even begin to rot in 20 minutes? By that time the corpse is still going cold. There's no reasonable lore explanation one could make about a corpse on a space station (which is a much more sterilized environment than say, a swamp) suddenly rotting and turning into a spooky skeleton within 10-20 minutes. idk about you, but my characters already gag and turn up their nose at the sight of a horrifically slashed up or carbonized cadaver. This is necrosis. Necrosis doesn't set in until several days (if not weeks) after an infection (such as from pit viper bites) sets in. Keep in mind this boy was also given antibiotics, so imagine what it would've been like for him without the treatment.

Bananas don't rot in 10-20 minutes.

 

Well, for one, no dead would be forgotten about. We would have an incentive to use the crematorium and to get people cloned ASAP.

 

Lolno. This change was hardly enough to incentivize people to start burying corpses or even get people to clean shit up. Lfwb miasma often more than not is weaponized and engineered to deny access to critical key points in the map. Given lfwb is a game focused around player suffering and artificial difficulty (not unlike real life), this makes sense.

If the body of a player is not located in an area that is commonly traversed, then the body will not be found for a very long time without suit sensors or some hint that something's wrong. That's the nature of the game, whether it's shitty to the player or not.

But this isn't lfwb. People don't play SS13 for their daily dose of pure, holistic gameplay masochism and fictional kiddy diddling. People play SS13 for fun. subber well, puppers.

Keep lifeweb out of my spaceman autism simulator please.

[LordFowl]

Miasma strikes me more as a feature of Dorf Fortress than that of Lifeweb, but I guess Lifewebbers enjoy their features second-hand. It is not my place to judge the antics of inferior vidya gamers, however.

On the more relevant topic, I agree that we probably shouldn't tamper with the atmospheric code to the degree you are suggesting. I doubt any miasmic cloud could reach an intense enough level to not be thoroughly diluted by the station's atmospheric systems. Burdening the already convoluted system for a mechanic of little gain hardly seems cost effective.

I also do not condone the idea of food rot, for numerous reasons. Firstly, it would require implementation of constructable freezers, and would require moving any and all items that already start in lockers and crates to said freezers (Unless we want round-start miasmic clouds). This is easily justified by simply stating that NanoTrasen food-stuffs, including those produced by the cookery, are riddled with chemically intrusive and certainly unhealthy preservatives, able to keep a food ration arguably edible for up to one hundred years and through nuclear detonation.

The issue of 'mechanic x is unfeasible because it doesn't occur in real life in y amount of unit of time' is ultimately disregardable. Already our codebase is filled with negative and positive modifiers that would not manifest themselves in two days, much less two hours. Hunger is the most prevalent one, but also infections and "necrosis" as we have it.

While this would probably not cause people to pay more attention to corpses, I still think its a neat idea.

[Guest]

The issue of 'mechanic x is unfeasible because it doesn't occur in real life in y amount of unit of time' is ultimately disregardable. Already our codebase is filled with negative and positive modifiers that would not manifest themselves in two days, much less two hours. Hunger is the most prevalent one, but also infections and "necrosis" as we have it.

 

consistency for the sake of consistency isn't a feasible reason to disregard a rebuttal against a suggestion wanting consistency.

the thing is, there is such a thing as the "wrong" kind of consistency. If said consistency adds nothing but pointless forced game mechanics that are very difficult (if not impossible) to deal with and creates unneeded frustration and makes a certain facet of the game unplayable, then it's definitely the wrong kind of consistency that should be added to the game.

simply; this is not interesting in the "fun" way.

RP will not improve because we added rotting corpses.

[LordFowl]

I disagree. Roleplay could very well improve if we add rotting corpses. It installs demonstrable benefit to dealing with corpses in a timely and safe fashion. Currently the only real reason to prioritize the cleaning of corpses is for aesthetic means. If people were so inclined, they could very well leave the scenes of grisly murder in the halls, as sometimes happens.

[enkas]

Lifeweb has a lore reason for the ridiculously quick rotting... Does a normal not-grimderp setting have a one? I think not.

[Killerhurtz]

Arguably, we can create lore reasons. A variant of wallrot (which is a fungus that attacks walls - only once in a while does it become a serious infestation, because metal is tough) which targets organic matter. All space travelers are given vaccines - so as long as they're alive, their body is amply capable of fighting it. But once they die, the fleshrot (for a lack of better term) quickly sets in, decomposing the body. That's a suggestion - but as I said, we can easily create various explanations.

Also I didn't know it was a Lifeweb thing, I never played Lifeweb. We're not lifeweb so we shouldn't compare it to Lifeweb, we can code our own damn thing. As Fowl said, I based it off Dwarf Fortress.

Also, why should we not touch these two files?

[enkas]

I based it off Dwarf Fortress.

 

In dwarf fortress, in game it takes quite a while for miasma to spread. An in game year, can be done in several hours of IRL time.

And even with such a lore explanation, I find it kind of a forced idea (that I still don't think it would make sense in a sophisticated SciFi setting). Then again, we already have mild burns, that progress into deadly infections in a matter of minutes.

And as Delta already mentioned, this mechanic in Lifeweb is rather obnoxious.

[Killerhurtz]

Can we like, stop mentioning lifeweb? If this happen it will be on our own prerogative.

And yeah, we do have these things. Dwarf fortress happens in a year - but that's because a year is like 5 minutes of gametime.

[Guest]

Can we like, stop mentioning lifeweb? If this happen it will be on our own prerogative.

And yeah, we do have these things. Dwarf fortress happens in a year - but that's because a year is like 5 minutes of gametime.

 

Lifeweb, Lifeweb, Lifeweb, Lifeweb, Lifeweb, Lifeweb.

Are you expecting Vargo to jump out of your mirror from saying it?

And this isn't Dwarf Fortress. This is SS13, where rounds progress in real-time. Bodies don't rot in 2 minutes.

Maybe you should actually think about your stance and everyone else's stance on this subject and give it a good deal of thought about what this would actually bring to the table. Because as it stands, this change seems to enforce some arbitrary requirement that the bodies must always be cleaned up and disposed of as soon as they are found; LEST THAT THE EVIL MEME GAS BEGIN TO GRIP THE STATION.

By the way you can't clone rotted bodies or ones turned to bone. They lack an intact, non-rotted brain, which is what DNA scanning and replication is heavily focused around. So have fun trying to justify to people why their character is eventually going to be permadead because some asshole changeling left them in maintenance without their suit sensors up.

[Killerhurtz]

Well they can start to rot in 2 minutes. Or 20, like I suggested.

What it would bring to the table?

-Greater urgency in dealing with patients - actually use sterilizing fluid, actually clean up the blood that's everywhere, actually cremate/send off corpses. And as far as cloning goes - I don't know many people who stick around waiting to be cloned 20 minutes after their death.

-Possible new interesting weapons/situations, along with possible usage in events - I'm thinking probably even a wizard spell.

-A new threat to watch out for, if it happens

-A new emergency to deal with (and from what I've seen emergencies IC are the biggest providers of RP)

-Hell, make it a new hazard if you want. There's already a breeding alert where stuff spawns - let it fester and they all die, causing the room to be infested with miasma. Or have a mouse die in the vents and have a room have some miasma slowly be injected in the system until the section of pipe is cleaned/replaced.

-More careful medical, as infections will gradually get worse as the tile gets miasma'd unless dressed and disinfected, and people will more readily catch infections if not sterilized before being cut open.

As I said for the cloning part - make it 20 minutes, or make it 40 minutes maybe - we're not talking about instarot. We're talking about bodies which, unless something drastic happen, wouldn't be cloned until much later in the round anyway.

[SierraKomodo]

I do like the idea of miasma. However, I'm not too keen on it being a thing that sets in quickly or has too severe of an effect; You have to remind that if the station gets into a code red/lots of death situation, aint nobody going to have time to deal with corpses and blood, and making those corpses and blood start killing people within 10 minutes is just crippling the station even more in a situation where the station may already be, for lack of abetter term, utterly fucked.

I'd recommend making it more along the lines of 30 minutes, and make the effects a little less severe. Instead of giving a random virus or something that could potentially become a fatal bio-bomb, start it off as a putrid odor. 10-15 minutes later, if you're within it long enough, you can get minor lung and/or eye infections. It'll have a clearly noticeable effect, but this leaves the results more open to a heavy-RP environment, and less arbitrarily-ganky of a mechanic when things start going south.

[Jennalele]

I like Sierra's proposition here. It prevents everything from going to hell in a handbasket immediately on code red, but still leaves the mechanic of "Clean this shit, man, it's unsanitary."

[Zundy]

I too like Sierra's idea!

[Guest]

Well they can start to rot in 2 minutes. Or 20, like I suggested.

 

-Greater urgency in dealing with patients - actually use sterilizing fluid, actually clean up the blood that's everywhere, actually cremate/send off corpses. And as far as cloning goes - I don't know many people who stick around waiting to be cloned 20 minutes after their death.

 

1.) Doubt it. 2.) What sterilizing fluid? This doesn't seem really all that planned out. 3.) No. What you do with corpses as a medical professional is thusly: You retrieve the body, you attempt to put it back together to make it presentable for funeral proceedings, you hold the body for next of kin to recover so that the deceased's family and come and do funeral proceedings as is their right. Cremating a body or holding a funeral for someone without contacting their family first is culturally despicable and is one of the most ultimate forms of disrespect for the dead. It's only SLIGHTLY okay to burn a body if its presence is actively harming people, but even then dumped corpses in maintenance are supposedly an anomaly for the day-to-day work schedule of a private corporate workplace in the middle of space. Not unless Bones Jingleton has anything to say about it, of course.

And as far as anything goes, I rarely see you on the server to begin with, but. I see plenty of people stick around to observe (I mean they are sort of forced to wait for 30 minutes before they can respawn anyway) and get cloned when medical gets around to it. It's really just a moot point.

 

-Possible new interesting weapons/situations, along with possible usage in events - I'm thinking probably even a wizard spell.

 

• One thread per suggestion. Mixing multiple ideas into one thread actulally makes managing this forum or deciding what to add more difficult to manage.

 

And ya wonder why I'm not onboard with any of this. But I guess me disagreeing with you makes me an asshole, right?

 

-A new threat to watch out for, if it happens

 

"If. If is good," Delta said to himself, totally unironically.

 

-Hell, make it a new hazard if you want. There's already a breeding alert where stuff spawns - let it fester and they all die, causing the room to be infested with miasma. Or have a mouse die in the vents and have a room have some miasma slowly be injected in the system until the section of pipe is cleaned/replaced.

 

Hardly makes it any different from any sort of gas leak. This wasn't really innovative to begin with.

 

-More careful medical, as infections will gradually get worse as the tile gets miasma'd unless dressed and disinfected, and people will more readily catch infections if not sterilized before being cut open.

 

>be a medical professional

>not wearing long sleeves and covering almost every trace of skin

>not obsessing over even the slightest risk of contagions

>not grabbing all the spray bottles at the beginning of the round and telling the chemist to mass produce space cleaner

>not bothering to forcibly sleep toxin people who desperately need medical treatment

>not screaming at other lesbian doctors to cover up their bodies and to put a sterile jumpsuit on and some clean(er) underwear, because exposing skin in the medbay is haram

Holy shit, I'm going to make a almost-non-ironic Muslim medical character because of this.

 

As I said for the cloning part - make it 20 minutes, or make it 40 minutes maybe - we're not talking about instarot. We're talking about bodies which, unless something drastic happen, wouldn't be cloned until much later in the round anyway.

 

Why even bother if it's going to be for that long? It's inherently pointless.

 

However, I'm not too keen on it being a thing that sets in quickly or has too severe of an effect; You have to remind that if the station gets into a code red/lots of death situation, aint nobody going to have time to deal with corpses and blood, and making those corpses and blood start killing people within 10 minutes is just crippling the station even more in a situation where the station may already be, for lack of abetter term, utterly fucked.

 

In which that seems to occur in many rounds due to the current meta-mindset of secret/nuclear/literally any other murderbone game mode > extended, this is why I'm very much against this suggestion. At the very least, it will be viewed as a nuisance mechanic and nobody will be made to give a dead body any second thoughts.

 

I'd recommend making it more along the lines of 30 minutes, and make the effects a little less severe. Instead of giving a random virus or something that could potentially become a fatal bio-bomb, start it off as a putrid odor. 10-15 minutes later, if you're within it long enough, you can get minor lung and/or eye infections. It'll have a clearly noticeable effect, but this leaves the results more open to a heavy-RP environment, and less arbitrarily-ganky of a mechanic when things start going south.

 

Still not convinced, no matter how much one could attempt to make it less overbearing. It'd be better off not implemented. I don't think it's worth the dev team's time and effort.

Bodies are not normally left to sit for 30 minutes, they're typically either found and immediately dragged to medbay or never found in that time.

There are better ways (HEM, way better ways) to make the game more engaging yet difficult. You can't roleplay with festering, rotting corpses.

[Carver]

I'm convinced if this is added, noone will clean up corpses anyways and it joins the 'infection'-tier in unrealistic annoying mechanics. All this does is serve to permakill people even moreso by encouraging destruction of bodies despite the fact that burning your employee's corpse in the workplace is a great way to get sued by the family.

[Zundy]

You could just, ya know, take the bodies to the morg?

[LordFowl]

I would assume bodybags would mitigate the effect, and morgue pods would cancel it out entirely. Also, delta, I think you're taking a rather personal stance against this idea. Show us where the Miasma hurt you, let your emotions run free.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Failing to tend to corpses or properly store them in the morgue slab is a product of the medical doctors not wanting to prioritize the corpses, or having to deal with very alive, very wounded patients, or simply being incompetent/uninterested because they're whispering to their lesbian partner in maintenance or something.

Basically, you either A) Don't have time to deal with the body or b) wouldn't deal with it anyway because you're not playing that kind of doctor. This wouldn't do anything for either one.

This would encourage absolutely no change to medical behaviors and only add an additional annoyance and layer of resentment to medbay when it's unable to keep up with the chaos. If you want corpses to be retrieved on time then it's your perogative to try to groom the doctors under you to handle them. Or just give out bodybags, Honkmother knows the chaplain needs something to do. Chaplains would probably be even more grateful since for some bizarre reason I always seem to see medbay banning the chaplain from even glancing at corpses.

[Guest]

I would assume bodybags would mitigate the effect, and morgue pods would cancel it out entirely. Also, delta, I think you're taking a rather personal stance against this idea. Show us where the Miasma hurt you, let your emotions run free.

 

no, bite me

 

This would encourage absolutely no change to medical behaviors and only add an additional annoyance and layer of resentment to medbay when it's unable to keep up with the chaos. If you want corpses to be retrieved on time then it's your perogative to try to groom the doctors under you to handle them. Or just give out bodybags, Honkmother knows the chaplain needs something to do. Chaplains would probably be even more grateful since for some bizarre reason I always seem to see medbay banning the chaplain from even glancing at corpses.

 

This, but, the chaplain often isn't given any authority over the corpses unless command decides otherwise. It's usually just plain common sense to leave the bodies alone until the deceased's families figure out what to do with them. I don't think I'd be very comfortable with the idea of potentially damning out of their afterlife just because I had a corpse cremated with little to no last rites prepared. I wouldn't want to be held responsible by the family either.

[Killerhurtz]

I, too, like Sierra's idea because it's what I originally had in mind.

 

Well they can start to rot in 2 minutes. Or 20, like I suggested.

 

-Greater urgency in dealing with patients - actually use sterilizing fluid, actually clean up the blood that's everywhere, actually cremate/send off corpses. And as far as cloning goes - I don't know many people who stick around waiting to be cloned 20 minutes after their death.

 

1.) Doubt it. 2.) What sterilizing fluid? This doesn't seem really all that planned out. 3.) No. What you do with corpses as a medical professional is thusly: You retrieve the body, you attempt to put it back together to make it presentable for funeral proceedings, you hold the body for next of kin to recover so that the deceased's family and come and do funeral proceedings as is their right. Cremating a body or holding a funeral for someone without contacting their family first is culturally despicable and is one of the most ultimate forms of disrespect for the dead. It's only SLIGHTLY okay to burn a body if its presence is actively harming people, but even then dumped corpses in maintenance are supposedly an anomaly for the day-to-day work schedule of a private corporate workplace in the middle of space. Not unless Bones Jingleton has anything to say about it, of course.

And as far as anything goes, I rarely see you on the server to begin with, but. I see plenty of people stick around to observe (I mean they are sort of forced to wait for 30 minutes before they can respawn anyway) and get cloned when medical gets around to it. It's really just a moot point.

 

-Possible new interesting weapons/situations, along with possible usage in events - I'm thinking probably even a wizard spell.

 

• One thread per suggestion. Mixing multiple ideas into one thread actulally makes managing this forum or deciding what to add more difficult to manage.

 

And ya wonder why I'm not onboard with any of this. But I guess me disagreeing with you makes me an asshole, right?

 

-A new threat to watch out for, if it happens

 

"If. If is good," Delta said to himself, totally unironically.

 

-Hell, make it a new hazard if you want. There's already a breeding alert where stuff spawns - let it fester and they all die, causing the room to be infested with miasma. Or have a mouse die in the vents and have a room have some miasma slowly be injected in the system until the section of pipe is cleaned/replaced.

 

Hardly makes it any different from any sort of gas leak. This wasn't really innovative to begin with.

 

-More careful medical, as infections will gradually get worse as the tile gets miasma'd unless dressed and disinfected, and people will more readily catch infections if not sterilized before being cut open.

 

>be a medical professional

>not wearing long sleeves and covering almost every trace of skin

>not obsessing over even the slightest risk of contagions

>not grabbing all the spray bottles at the beginning of the round and telling the chemist to mass produce space cleaner

>not bothering to forcibly sleep toxin people who desperately need medical treatment

>not screaming at other lesbian doctors to cover up their bodies and to put a sterile jumpsuit on and some clean(er) underwear, because exposing skin in the medbay is haram

Holy shit, I'm going to make a almost-non-ironic Muslim medical character because of this.

 

As I said for the cloning part - make it 20 minutes, or make it 40 minutes maybe - we're not talking about instarot. We're talking about bodies which, unless something drastic happen, wouldn't be cloned until much later in the round anyway.

 

 

However, I'm not too keen on it being a thing that sets in quickly or has too severe of an effect; You have to remind that if the station gets into a code red/lots of death situation, aint nobody going to have time to deal with corpses and blood, and making those corpses and blood start killing people within 10 minutes is just crippling the station even more in a situation where the station may already be, for lack of abetter term, utterly fucked.

 

In which that seems to occur in many rounds due to the current meta-mindset of secret/nuclear/literally any other murderbone game mode > extended, this is why I'm very much against this suggestion. At the very least, it will be viewed as a nuisance mechanic and nobody will be made to give a dead body any second thoughts.

 

I'd recommend making it more along the lines of 30 minutes, and make the effects a little less severe. Instead of giving a random virus or something that could potentially become a fatal bio-bomb, start it off as a putrid odor. 10-15 minutes later, if you're within it long enough, you can get minor lung and/or eye infections. It'll have a clearly noticeable effect, but this leaves the results more open to a heavy-RP environment, and less arbitrarily-ganky of a mechanic when things start going south.

 

Still not convinced, no matter how much one could attempt to make it less overbearing. It'd be better off not implemented. I don't think it's worth the dev team's time and effort.

Bodies are not normally left to sit for 30 minutes, they're typically either found and immediately dragged to medbay or never found in that time.

There are better ways (HEM, way better ways) to make the game more engaging yet difficult. You can't roleplay with festering, rotting corpses.

 

2.)Sterilizine. AKA a chemical that already exists in the codebase for that purpose but isn't used because there's currently no disadvantage of operating without it. 3.) You're talking about right here right now. I don't know how much of it is going to be respected by a mega-corp, in space, where needs are needs.

As far as the single idea goes, I'm aware - that was not a suggestion, that was an idea to debate after (if) this was implemented. You just asked for what it could bring.

AS for whether or not it's worth the dev's time, that's not your prerogative so it's a moot point. And you said it yourself - bodies are either dragged or never found - it makes finding corpses easier/more interesting.

You DO seem to have a personal vendetta against the idea though.

[enkas]

You DO seem to have a personal vendetta against the idea though.

 

Do you know why we keep mentioning Lifeweb? It is because we experienced it already on a Byond game. One that is made to make you suffer. We -know- how annoying miasma is, how it adds nothing good in a roleplaying enviroment, only to be a very irritating distraction. And things don't even rot that quick. Then again, I keep repeating myself, throwing words into a bottomless pit with absolutely no avail

[TishinaStalker]

I personally feel like miasma could add to roleplay. It adds more and becomes another element when it comes to dread or an overwhelming feeling of danger when things deteriorate in a massive conflict. Confusion, desperation, and information overload is how you make someone feel overwhelmed in a dangerous situation. Not just that, the way this is suggested, it feels like this is not something that will happen very often; outside of finding dead bodies in hiding spots. The fact that it doesn't become a constant thing is what would make it feel like a fresh mechanic when these huge conflicts happen. That way it's not "Not this again" and more "Huh, it's this again", but that will still fall as to how it's implemented.

I think that, if implemented, then a good thing to do would be to simply add a variety of ways to make it less annoying. Wearing latex gloves, medical face masks, medical jumpsuits, covering wear (see: trench coats, lab coats) could provide partial protection to skin exposure for infections, gasmasks (which are fairly common) provide complete immunity when paired with an oxygen canister. Just spitballing, but simply adding multiple ways to avoid it as opposed to a single, true way.

I cannot argue on the dev team's willingness to do atmos code though. That is totally up to them, and it's just something they'll weigh in themselves if and when considering this suggestion.

[Jennalele]

A good way to prevent the morgue from becoming a deathtrap could be a simple mechanic of "Bodybagging and morgue traying a body prevents the miasma from escaping."

Still. I like this idea, and agree with Tish.

[Garnascus]

Its gonna be REAL hard to strike a balance with it. too severe and it becomes a snowball that results in way more emergency shuttles during pretty much every code red scenario. Too little and it becomes an annoyance that players just flat out ignore..

Personally, I think no matter how lethal you make it the bodies and blood will still just be ignored. "Captain shit is kill and there's holes everywhere go clean that shit yourself". Although I kinda want to say "yes" just for the sole reason we might have ERT called specifically as literal cleanup detail, which is hilarious.