Player Complaint-Suethecake

[UnknownMurder]

I'd also like to point out what Delta tried to point out as I was the witness via radio in game.

If Ana was the one who executed the Antag then claims it as a mistake to kill while antag was on ground. HOWEVER, she and Security in her best attempts prevented the Chief Medical Officer from cloning the mistakenly antagonist and succeeded when they should not have. Where's the logic in that? What are you trying to say, Sue?

From the public's view: There has been a rise of Security being rude and aggressive. They ignore people's infraction/crimes just to get the Antagonist.

[Hunnewle]

Well, I just read through the post so I will say what I think:

Security should not be the one to push DNCs, if anyone, it'd be the CMO/Psychologist.

Regarding us 'grasping at straws' with your 'old' logs, they still represent you and how you act.

And finally, There is only one reason, ever, to kill someone who is in your mercy. It is if they are already badly wounded, won't survive, and you can't get them fixed. At that point it's a mercy kill, only if they are begging to die.

[Guest Complete Garbage]

Well, I just read through the post so I will say what I think:

Security should not be the one to push DNCs, if anyone, it'd be the CMO/Psychologist.

Regarding us 'grasping at straws' with your 'old' logs, they still represent you and how you act.

And finally, There is only one reason, ever, to kill someone who is in your mercy. It is if they are already badly wounded, won't survive, and you can't get them fixed. At that point it's a mercy kill, only if they are begging to die.

 

Even then, it's questionable. At that point, they'd probably be near unconscious anyway, and it'd be less a waste of ammo and energy to just let things run their course.

[Guest]

Well, I just read through the post so I will say what I think:

Security should not be the one to push DNCs, if anyone, it'd be the CMO/Psychologist.

Regarding us 'grasping at straws' with your 'old' logs, they still represent you and how you act.

And finally, There is only one reason, ever, to kill someone who is in your mercy. It is if they are already badly wounded, won't survive, and you can't get them fixed. At that point it's a mercy kill, only if they are begging to die.

 

Even then, it's questionable. At that point, they'd probably be near unconscious anyway, and it'd be less a waste of ammo and energy to just let things run their course.

 

Mercy kills are still murder. No.

Unless it had a clear RP lead-up in which they were actually begging for death, it's not OOCly okay whatsoever.

[Xelnagahunter]

Well, I just read through the post so I will say what I think:

Security should not be the one to push DNCs, if anyone, it'd be the CMO/Psychologist.

Regarding us 'grasping at straws' with your 'old' logs, they still represent you and how you act.

And finally, There is only one reason, ever, to kill someone who is in your mercy. It is if they are already badly wounded, won't survive, and you can't get them fixed. At that point it's a mercy kill, only if they are begging to die.

 

• Already determined as a fact.
• You are correct.
  
• Irrelevant.

 

I trust that Sue mistakenly killed the character. She rolled with it ICly as if it were intentional. An ahelp saying sorry would have clarified that, but moot point. If she were rolling with it IC, of course she would still not want to see him cloned. Quit damning her OOCly for IC decisions. Was it a wrong call in general? Yup. Was it malice on behalf of Sue? I don't think so.

As far as Sue being super brash about things and passive or actively agressive, I've seen the behavior and wondered about it. Sue, you come across as angry and angsty and it shines a bad light on the lore team and staff as a whole. Part of being a public face staff person is tact and diplomacy, neither of which you show well. Can you honestly disagree with me? If so, please do so. I don't want to be sitting here damning you for no reason, that isn't my goal. I'm also no here to get you in trouble or to have you dismissed from your staff position (and I don't think Gollee is either). I am here to see you improve and be better for it. I'll ask that in disproving me you cite examples, I won't because enough has been cited already that reflects your attitude over a large course of time on this server.

Edit: To clarify on some of the stuff here, because her forum agressiveness isn't actually the subject of this;

I know you've played from time to time in the past several months. I don't have proof because I am bad at that crap, but I recall seeing Ana. And you HAVE to be active on the forums in a semi-regular manner. You control a whitelist. I don't think I've seen months go by at a time without whitelist accepting, or denying. This is done by you regularly, every week or two. Meaning you likely access the forums at least once a week. Once again, not gathering hard evidence, this is just my observations. So please don't tell us you're completely ignorant of forum threads and use them as an excuse for your IC actions.

[Susan]

The topic regarding the DNC was made in November; during my hiatus. No, I don't browse the forums. I have very little ties to the community here. I come on and approve whitelists and that's it. You'll notice my only posts were in regards to Tajara and whitelists because I'm either thrown links or just go to the Whitelist page. I don't have some deep-seeded curiosity about what you all do while I'm gone.

I may have been on the server a few times, but didn't really play for long - and at no point was there an on-server announcement about changes. November was a month I was extremely busy in Eternia following Ana's death and other serious IC issues, so Aurora was the least of my concerns.

RE: Being kind of rude; I don't hold my tongue, and I'm not going to disagree with you. However, I don't necessarily believe everyone has to get along and hold hands, and I don't see hostility and aggressiveness where necessitated and justified as a bad thing. I don't flower my words, and I don't sugarcoat them.

[Gollee]

Except the two links I posted were from random forum threads between november and now, when you posted, so you quite obviously did browse them.

[Susan]

One was December, one was January - that is not 'between November and now'. It is between 'December and now'.

But I digress. Its moot to argue over what neither of us can substantiate. There's no way for me to really prove I didn't read every forum topic that was relevant, and there's no way for you to prove that I did.

[Susan]

That ghost thing was something entirely separate and is not related to this situation at all; as a ghost, I wrote in blood some spooky message about Roy summoning repeated cult manifestations that went on a murder rampage in atmospherics. It wasn't me validmurdering antags or anything along those lines. Moreover, if you presume I am that afraid of a permanent ban considering my hiatus, I dunno what to tell you.

You're free to believe what you want; I have nothing left to argue, as I've already made my points.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Guest

[CampinKiller]

Playing devil's advocate here, I've seen complaints in which people have willfully admitted to purposely executing antags who've been arrested or easily could've been, and that person has gotten off scot free, and these were blatantly obvious, as opposed to what could be an accident. It isn't too hard to imagine it being accidental, given the circumstances (lag, spam clicking, only one shot, the antag being in crit), regardless of the reputation of the player involved.

Also, if it matters at all, up until reading this thread I thought Security could order a DNC, and have seen it regularly done by Command/Security in the past.

[Guest Complete Garbage]

That ghost thing was something entirely separate and is not related to this situation at all; as a ghost, I wrote in blood some spooky message about Roy summoning repeated cult manifestations that went on a murder rampage in atmospherics. It wasn't me validmurdering antags or anything along those lines. Moreover, if you presume I am that afraid of a permanent ban considering my hiatus, I dunno what to tell you.

You're free to believe what you want; I have nothing left to argue, as I've already made my points.

If you're really not afraid of being permabanned from the server, I don't see why you keep coming back. If you dislike what the server has become, find an HRP-extended only server, or, hell, start your own if you want. But don't leave, come back, and then say, "This sucks, I remember why I left," and do it again. It's adding nothing to the community.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Complete Garbage

[SierraKomodo]

I think we should consider something here. Sue has a long line of notes and warnings for the exact same type of behavior, a long history of the exact same type of attitude, and nothing has really been done about this. Do you guys remember Technokat? His long list of notes and warnings for /the exact same type of behavior/? Powergaming and gank-like behavior. It took how long before staff finally decided to take action? And, I specifically recall someone saying that they realised they took too long to actually take action and that wouldn't happen again. And here we are now. There's clearly a problem here, that despite what's been said and done is still a problem that hasn't been fully addressed.

[Susan]

First: Even if they were, "purposefully misgendering" you, it is 110% irrelevant to the matter at hand.

 

It is 100% relevant when you want to throw accusations of me being 'rude' and 'toxic' and then be so yourself in the same breath. That, my friend, is called hypocrisy.

I have nothing more to add, and really nothing more to argue. A 'long line' of notes is mostly irrelevant when they were over incidents I viewed and still viewed as justified; I'm not going to bother posting here again, lest I continue to take the bait from people who just want to insult me and consistently violate the subforum's rules about people not being involved not being able to post.

I've made my argument, and such is such.

[TishinaStalker]

I will now be locking this thread until Garnascus gets to this complaint over the next couple of days. The discussion is starting to get relatively out of hand and will just lead to more work having to be done on Garnascus' part which will lead to a slower resolution.

[Garnascus]

Almost done with stuff, expect a reply to this within 14 hours or so.

[Garnascus]

Right, lets start off with the security incident. On executing an antag we are talking about the difference a single mouse click here. As tish and alberyk posted its just not that implausible reason away as an accident. I do not think the argument of "but sues history of executing antags" is valid here. Her last instance of anything related to powergaming was almost nine months ago.

We like to change lore every now and then and update In game procedures based on it. I like this aspect of our server and would like to see it continued. When we changed the cloning procedure to "you get told you're a clone now" there was a lot of confusion over it with a lot of players ahelping, Its not every players responsibility to peruse the forums for any change like this. In fact its our fault as staff for not explicitly communicating it. Sue admits this as her mistake so i really dont see a problem here.

The final part of this complaint, and indeed the most valid i think. Your OOC aggression and your attitude in posting. you're a staff member and you handle the whitelists for tajaran and if im correct you have taken tajaran lore to what it is today. As staff we need to be held to a higher standard and i think its time you're also held to this standard. you frequently come back from hiatus just to inject yourself into whatever piece of drama we have going on at the time. In doing so you decry our server and our roleplay as "a waste of time" and make comments about how you where playing a game that "isn't a waste of my time". It comes off as extremely condescending.

I could go on and on but i wont, its not necessary. this behavior is just flat out uncalled for and it needs to stop sue. You might not like the direction we are taking this server or its roleplay. Indeed you are free to criticize us at any time, the forums are a great place to discuss things honestly. what you dont have the right to do sue is mock us, insult us, all the while trying to look superior. we have something good here in aurora sue, i wouldn't be an admin here if i didn't believe that.

I think thats a pretty reasonable request honestly. I dont want to see this deflected or excused away. At the rate you're going a forum ban isnt too far off. I dont want to do that and in fact i shouldn't have to do that. Tempers flare sometimes i agree, and its ok to not censor yourself. Lets at least be cool about it alright?

[Chaznoodles]

D-did Sue just get a slap on the wrist and asked not to be naughty yet again?

[Garnascus]

a large portion of you are out to lynch her, thats not gonna happen. Up until now her behavior has been pretty much ignored by staff as a whole. That changes now and if it doesnt a forum perma-ban is very close. Coupled with that her position as a lore writer would also be gone. If thats a slap on the wrist i dunno what to tell you. This complaint is also still in progress. Im waiting for sue's reply to that post i made above.

[Chaznoodles]

a large portion of you are out to lynch her, thats not gonna happen. Up until now her behavior has been pretty much ignored by staff as a whole. That changes now and if it doesnt a forum perma-ban is very close.

 

A large portion of us have seen this behaviour time and time again and are tired of it disrupting the rounds and fun of other players. The behaviour hasn't been ignored by staff at all. There are bunches of notes on her which are displayed here. The fact that she's 'came back after nine months' and the behaviour still continues makes these valid. If the behaviour hadn't continued, they wouldn't be.

How many last chances has Sue received? Remember that time I got a forum permaban slapped on me after one action? Remember Technokat's permaban due to his notes? It's hit a point where it's laughable now.

P.s. I received two forum warnings for relevant and meaningful participation in this thread.

[Garnascus]

technokat got given the same chance after almost twice as many notes in half as much time as sue. The bigger issue is i dont have the power to strip her position. All i can tell you is a discussion is still on going about it, her reply to this could be a factor.

[Guest]

Do you have a reason not to ban her? Why should she be given more lenience than what TechnoKat got?

[Garnascus]

sort of, i get that same uneasy feeling i had with technokat. The reason why i argued for one more chance with techno is because it was mostly staff's fault at the time for continueing to just warn/note him. For whatever reason he only ever received like one server ban up until we where all like "yo so....technokat guys?". it didnt feel right to me to just be like "hey btw we talked and you have had a lot of chances heres a perma ban kthxbai".

Im not entirely sure the situation is the same here of course, just that im getting a similar feeling. I suppose its a good thing that i have other admins to rely on here.

[Susan]

Yes, I agree the comments about Aurora being a waste of my time were rude and probably unbecoming of a staff member; I shouldn't have allowed distaste to color my perceptions. You are also correct in saying that being haughty like that is also kind of rude. I maintain, however, that Aurora has become a bastion of roleplay that borders on low-to-medium, and vehemently disagree with the direction both administration and the server have gone; however, I will strive to word my disagreement more properly in the future. I, too, like Aurora. I wouldn't have put so much time and effort into coding and lore-writing if I didn't enjoy it here. It is merely tragic to see the ship you struggled to build sink rapidly with every passing hour.

So I'll word my criticisms less harshly.

Anything else, I have no comment on. After being dehumanized by hyopcrites, I've no interest in further participation in this thread. I've said my piece.

Do what you gotta do. Whatever happens happens.

[Garnascus]

Expect a final decision within the next few days. Ill try to speed it along as much as possible. You have a right to that i think. This isn't a decision i can or should make alone. Ill be discussing this with staff.

[Garnascus]

Right, It ended up taking a lot longer than i thought it would and i apologize for that. Us all being on radically different time zones can be a bit awkward sometimes. Anyway we have come to the conclusion that your forum behavior, especially as a member of staff is just too over the line to ignore. A week long forum ban will be placed on your forum account. The next offence of aggression that you have shown in some of the OPs links will likely result in a permanent ban from the forums. I have discussed this with our loremaster jackboot and he agrees that the next time you get forum banned, for any length of time you are gone from the lore team.

To your credit however, you've given us your word and your apologies it was over the line. You're free to voice whatever concerns or criticisms you have about this server, its administration, or even me personally. Just keep it cool yeah?