Reduce Handcuff Power

[Snakebittenn]

It's a three-way proposal.

You need a grab on someone to cuff them

People who are cuffed can uncuff each other

Also one can use doors provided they have the access still. Considering you can use doors without hands, it makes no sense that handcuffs somehow magically prevent that.

I'd also propose that if you have your hands full, you are fully unable to drag a prisoner behind you to where they can't possibly escape your grasp. Fuck that.

I propose these things because handcuffs are somewhat too binding in their current iteration, they can be slapped on somewhat easily and it's next to impossible to get out of a pair unless your biology happens to be reptilian.

[NebulaFlare]

As someone who plays security, I must disagree. The speed of applying handcuffs is a lifesaver. I'd rather see roleplay be used to get out of handcuffs, than game mechanics. ((Hey officer, I'll tell you everything you wanna know if you just loosen these cuffs because they're cutting into my wrist - SYKE!!! *steals ID and bolts* ))

I do agree with the ability to open doors though. And uncuffing each other would be cool - just make it longer to achieve than normal with free hands.

[Skull132]

Using doors is going to end up with a shit tonne more assholes getting shot. And grabbing people to cuff them was deemed a, "Lolno" eversince Bay implemented it. Cuffees uncuffing eachother might be worth investigating, it could be good RPs. As long as it takes a bit. Also requires people to be mindful of shoving a bunch of people into the same space without supervision.

[ariever]

This'll be good, whether you're a tator trying to resist getting found out, or you're an innocent trying not to get tortured by the revolutionaries. Since the airlock opens from sensing your ID, and not from your hand, it makes sense. And another thing, you usually have to stand over someone to cuff them, (Or flip them over onto their back) to cuff them.

it took me like three tries to send this I'm sorry

[Pratepresidenten]

As far as borgs go, they cannot grab the suspect in any way or form, so a compromize here would be to have the guy on the floor, either by will, or by force.

[Scheveningen]

Borgs on Baystation can cuff without needing a grab, unlike humanoids who do.

[driecg36]

I agree with uncuffed people being able to uncuff each other, but nerfing cuffs would make sec's lives SUCH a fucking pain when someone comes into the brig that resists at EVERY possible opportunity, with minimal or no RP beyond "i dindu nuffin."

Cuffs are a fallback for people who resist. I'd much rather people RP to get out of cuffs, or even better, never be cuffed at all, rather than making cuffs loose, coated in vaseline, and made of plastic...

[Rushodan]

I agree with uncuffed people being able to uncuff each other, but nerfing cuffs would make sec's lives SUCH a fucking pain when someone comes into the brig that resists at EVERY possible opportunity, with minimal or no RP beyond "i dindu nuffin."

Cuffs are a fallback for people who resist. I'd much rather people RP to get out of cuffs, or even better, never be cuffed at all, rather than making cuffs loose, coated in vaseline, and made of plastic...

 

This, I have had times where there are three people in processing and I am alone, and they are all spamming resist. I can either A - call for backup (if it comes). B - play a silly game of unbuckling and rebuckling everyone while I try to process...makes me want do die. Or C - go ahead with processing as they all pop out of their handcufffs and start attacking me.

Now, I am listing a worst-case scenario - I know. But its hard enough as it is at times to keep multiple people cuffed, making them easier to get out of would just be annoying - especially if the arrest is well-RP'd (got detectives finding evidence and motives, hunted them down for questioning and so on).

As someone who antags a lot, or at least used to, I know it can be annoying when your gimmick is ruined because you are spotted doing some crazy shit. The idea is to remain stealthy or robust enough to avoid capture - not just being blatantly obvious and then having an easy way to escape.

To summarise properly for the suggestions:

- Having to grab people to cuff them? 50/50 on that, I can see it being annoying, but then again it should be a little harder to cuff than just...hitting someone with a pair of cuffs.

- People who are cuffed can uncuff eachother? No - that would make security players lives hell - its bad enough when you have multiple people spamming resist, but if cuffed people could uncuff other cuffed people, that would just be horrible

- Having airlocks open when cuffed so long as the ID is visable? I actually think that is a good idea, if security are not competent enough to keep perps under observation, then they should be able to get away if they still have their ID

[Guest Menown]

Solution:

Handcuffing requires the subject to either be on help intent, or by grabbing or on the floor, by means of flash, disarm, ect. This would allow complying detainees to allows the cuffs on them without resisting or force. It'd also mean that non-complying ones would require force.

As for resisting out of cuffs, it's massively depressing to see security trying to handle somebody constantly breaking out of their cuffs. Resisting out of cuffs should cause some injury to your hands, as it's not as easy as pulling your hands free over the course of two minutes. Most people irl probably can't even work themselves out of cuffs, let alone in two minutes.

[Mcspizzy]

Please, please do not nerf cuffs, and heres why! Well start with having to grab people and why this is bad. As it stands a suspect who is cooperating with sec, and who is in order of needing to be arrested will now have to be forcefully grabbed to cuff. This knocks all rp of a peaceful arrest right out the window. Do you really want every arrest tagged along with "x grabs y passively"? And you would no doubt have to take it to an aggressive grab to actually cuff them, how else would it work for someone who is resisting like a madman?

Now lets talk about two people aiding each other to get out of handcuffs. While this would be somewhat nice, it is completly unrealistic. As coalf had said once, it is unrealistic that a single person can even get out of cuffs! How would they even do this (a single person, mind you)? Do they have a key, are the cuffs made of flimsy material, are they breaking their hand to get out of them?

Simply put, getting out of cuffs in general without the aid of someone who is uncuffed is simply for gameplays sake. As for opening doors while cuffed...i could see this, with only doors you had access too, ofcourse. This would make officers more diligent while in processing, and in any other situation where they are with a cuffed suspect. You could say that im impartial to this. Now for the last one.

Really, dragging or pulling with your hands full is really more of a code (or meta/powergame) issue. It could be sovled though changing the code, or by enforcing it via admins. Im impartial to this, but ill explain the downsides of making a change to this. That downside is that there simply isnt enough sec to rely on for this. Sure, there are times where sec is stacked, there are times where sec is very competent and on point, but there are opposite times as well.

In cases such as these, a single officer for a shift would have a neigh impossible time dealing with the chaos that most rounds bring. Thanks for reading!

Tl:dr cuffs are fine, leave them be.

[DatBerry]

Handcuffs are not broken, there isn't a need to fix things that aren't broken.

Handcuffs were already nerfed by virtue of removing both the cuffs and unbuckling, meaning you actually have a chance when you resist out of a chair. since this update I've been seeing more and more people getting a chance at escape.

What I think should be added would be an RnG timer to remove them(instead of static for each cuff type), and that the message that you are removing your cuffs only shows up to people next to you.

[Rushodan]

One thing I should add, is that working your way out of cuffs should cause hand injuries as other people have stated in this thread. It should be painful and rub the skin off at a minimum - with the injures getting worse and worse the more people resist. It would fix the issue of people spamming resist, and would give physical evidence to people escaping confinement (cuts on hands or whatever).

[driecg36]

One thing I should add, is that working your way out of cuffs should cause hand injuries as other people have stated in this thread. It should be painful and rub the skin off at a minimum - with the injures getting worse and worse the more people resist. It would fix the issue of people spamming resist, and would give physical evidence to people escaping confinement (cuts on hands or whatever).

 

I agree with this 200%, and would +1 this as an individual suggestion.

It feels so... odd that cuffs are not only so weak, but people can escape them with minimal difficulty. I can see this adding RP, with breaking out of cuffs being something really desperate and difficult, and only to be done as a last resort.

Actually, I can see this being a simultaneous nerf to the cuffs. Getting out of cuffs would be possible while being moved, but getting out of cuffs period would damage your hands pretty badly, cause a large amount of pain, and cause bleeding. Pushing or otherwise debilitating the person breaking out of said cuffs would still reset the counter, but the person resisting would take slight damage every time they attempted them, and significant damage if they succeeded.