Replace the armory shotguns.

[K0NFL1QT]

It has been stated multiple times by multiple staff that lately the server has been moving in an undesirable direction, regarding gun use and escalation. To that end, I put forward replacing shotguns with weapons that have less insta-kill potential. Security stops getting in trouble for headgibs, antags don't presume they're going to get headgibbed on sight so they're more inclined to roleplay and be less lethal themselves; it brings the deadliness down a touch, all round.

Now, I'm not saying Security needs to be stripped of lethal ballistics; they are necessary to have in storage. I just suggest stocking guns that don't gib so easily, like Auto Rifles. Ideally something that requires two hands to use and has decent ammo capacity, with semi, burst or full auto fire modes. Instead of shotguns with slugs, we could have a couple rifles, several magazines of regular ammo and then a limited amount of AP ammo.

Yay or nay?

[Superiorform]

I'd like to see shotguns have to be ordered - I simply hate how one shot will completely end an antagonists round. As HoS, I often order lethal force on a wizard or ninja, but disallow shotguns until lasers prove ineffective, just because of how bullshit they are. You end the antagonist and shut the round down with one damn click. Broken bones, bleeding, shrapnel.

[ajstorey456]

Understandable, but the shotgun is clearly there for non negotiable situations with antags that have given no other chance but to turn them into bits. The common issue is that sec officer uses a shotgun to non surgically remove head from shoulders, and sometimes, that's simply what is needed, but that situation is more rare than the head gibs that do occur.

Rather than remove the stations greatest defense vs organics, greatly discourage it. Punish wardens that issue shotgun slugs like candy as opposed to shells that are less instantly lethal, but still effective in removing bad men from a fight. Or, encourage nonlethal methods by issuing stun/flash shells rather than beanbags, which are useless.

[Scheveningen]

Agreed. Replace them with the machine pistols instead, which basically are no different from the C-20rs the mercenaries get. Shotguns are massive power-weapons at the moment in any hands.

[Doc]

Absolutely supported. This won't necessarily reduce sec's access to lethal weaponry (it'll be different, sure, but no less lethal) and would help prevent immediate round-ending of both antagonists and security by each other. I'm unsure if any rifles have them, but I do know machine pistols have rubber magazines. A rifle/smg with lethals, AP, and rubber rounds would be preferable, just as the shotgun has shells, slugs, and beanbags.

[K0NFL1QT]

Punish wardens that issue shotgun slugs like candy as opposed to shells that are less instantly lethal, but still effective in removing bad men from a fight. Or, encourage nonlethal methods by issuing stun/flash shells rather than beanbags, which are useless.

 

Regular shells are less than desirable most of the time because they spray and have friendly fire risks. Slugs are simply the superior choice when lethals are required. And that's the problem. If you make shotguns and slugs harder to access, and instead give Sec lethals that don't instagib, I think we can all have much more enjoyable and reasonable shootouts.

[DrHobo]

Wait a minute... this isn't Skull's secret ERP logs!! *shakes fist*

Anyway, I'm conflicted over this but yeah probably better to order them in with the new cargo system. Maybe have the Warden have to order in the whole or most of the armoury at round start, and start with only a few random things? Would give the Warden something else to do and more freedom to "set up" the sec regime's approach that shift, while it gives antags more time before getting inevitably facegibbed.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

If the problem is shotgun slugs, why not remove the slugs, keep the shotguns, and have people use the shells?

I too, have been instantly gibbed of a limb unceremoniously by slugs.

There is a great nugget earlier in this thread. K0nflict said that the shells have the risk of friendly fire. I think the fact that their wide spread, shrapnel, and the ease of getting a shotgun make for a great be

nefit/drawback balance.

[Bath Salts Addict]

It is literal pain to see a suggestion like this, but I understand how easily abused and how powerful slugs are. But it's just that. Slugs.

I'd be all for removing slugs and restricting sec's ammo stock to shells so shotguns can be used as they're supposed to be: a close range weapon rather than the rifle-like weapon slugs turns them into. That way, we still keep the shotguns that spriters have worked hard to give us a dual-wield sprite for, and we don't end up giving Sec a weapon that has a toggleable 3 round burst that will just end up in a lot of collateral and friendly fire incidents.

If we remove shotguns from the armory entirely, then we'll rarely see shotguns at all in-game. Mercs don't get shotguns, ERT doesn't get shotguns for some reason, and raiders only rarely spawn with a combat shotgun.

[Superiorform]

If we remove shotguns from the armory entirely, then we'll rarely see shotguns at all in-game. Mercs don't get shotguns, ERT doesn't get shotguns for some reason, and raiders only rarely spawn with a combat shotgun.

 

I don't think this is true. Considering how powerful they are, they would be ordered once the round has escalated, even past laser rifles. If laser rifles haven't worked, sec can bring in the big guns, instead of shotguns being the first thing picked, and completely shutting the wizard or ninja down in one hit.

[themaskedman2]

The amount of Officers I see beeline to the shotgun and slugs just to sprint up and blast antags in the head is dissapointing, i’m all for removing shotguns from the armory, for reasons mentioned above, really.

[Ron]

I think nerfing slugs or removing slugs from the armory would be better than removing shotguns from the armory.

[Alberyk]

It would be better to just remove the lethals round and keep the less than lethals.

[Hackie]

I would prefer shotgun shells. So they see use, and have a good purpose for a close-range deterrent, but are not as deadly/end-gaming as slugs. SMG's wouldn't be as effective as a good old boomstick, and it would make sure that this fun af weapon still sees use.

[Butterrobber202]

It would be better to just remove the lethals round and keep the less than lethals.

Make it happen alb-chan

[K0NFL1QT]

It would be better to just remove the lethals round and keep the less than lethals.

 

But in that case, you'd be better off removing the shotguns entirely because beanbags vs mercs makes for a bad time. Hence why this suggestion is for replacing the shotguns with more appropriate weapons; still lethal for when lethals are required, but not insta-kill.

[Scheveningen]

But in that case, you'd be better off removing the shotguns entirely because beanbags vs mercs makes for a bad time.

 

dont you think the armory has more purpose than to defend the station from more than one threat than mercenaries?