Immunization Reagent

[BurgerBB]

I think that viruses are a little crazy in their current state especially when it's based on RNG. You can get really lucky, and really unlucky when it comes to catching a virus, and in the past week alone I've played 2 games where a virus completely ruined the flow of the round since virtually no one plays virologist.

To solve that, I introduced a reagent that acts as some sort of easy universal immunization shot that prevents viruses from being contacted by non-infection means. One 15u dose is meant to last 30 minutes, and an overdose is 20 causes your immune system to be weaker, bringing in infections similar to what you would get if you received burns.

In its current state, people seem to be against this idea. This is a discussion thread for this idea, and how to balance it properly. Current self-suggestions I have are:

- Removing the ability to produce it, locking it behind cargo.

- Changing the recipe to ask for a super-rare ingredient, like carpotoxin, platinum, or uranium.

- Make it reduce the chances of contacting a virus, instead of eliminating it completely.

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/4647

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Merge chemist and virologist.

[BurgerBB]

Merge chemist and virologist.

 

I had that idea in mind when making this. There needs to be more chemicals that the chemist can make that can treat/prevent viruses from spreading, instead of relying on someone catching it, kidnapping them, and running tests on them.

[Korinra]

Well, immunizations in the real world might be a good place to start.

Maybe if Virology has a machine that predicts some details about the possible virus each round.

The Virologist could then work on preparing a 'best case scenario' immunization.

The virus may or may not trigger, but if it does, people who have been immunized will have the following:

If the Virologist guessed right based on the data, complete immunity to the disease (there's no 100% way to guarantee success though)

If the Virologist guessed 3/4 right based on the data, the disease MIGHT affect the immunized, but won't move past stage 1.

If the Virologist guessted 1/2 right based on the data, the disease WILL affect the immunized, but won't move past stage 2.

If the Virologist guessed 1/4 right based on the data, the disease WILL affect the immunized, but won't move past stage 3.

If the Virologist was wrong, the virus can and will spread like normal.

This is basically how immunizations for influenza works. They predict how the disease will mutate, make an immunization, and MOST of the time the immunization is extremely successful. But take Swine Flu. That was a failure. They failed at predicting, and as a result, the immunization basically did nothing, which resulted in a lot of sick people. Still TREATABLE, but it did make for an outbreak scare.

This, first and foremost, gives the Virologist something to do every round. If there's not a Virologist, business as usual, hopefully people will go to the Medical bay when they're sick. If there IS a Virologist, he can make up some immunizations, pass them out to medical, and have an announcement made that immunizations are prepared for 'the current flu season'.

This would ALSO add an RP element. Didn't get the immunization which led to you getting sick despite it being asked of you by your staff head? Well that's neglect of duty and ignoring an instruction from a superior. Security might pop you in a cell for a bit and force that immunization on you.

[BurgerBB]

Judging by the ratings on the github thread, people are opposed to this idea because of the tired and dumb meme "I died please restart." and really all my PRs are "I died, please restart."

Every single one of my PRs are made because there is something I noticed while playing that was absolute shit.

My cooking PRs were made because I was playing chef and I noticed the food selection was seriously lacking.

My mapping PRs are made because I was playing the relevant role and I noticed that the organization and whatnot was seriously lacking.

My mining PRs are made because I was playing quartermaster and I notice that the fun was seriously lacking.

I've played two rounds in the past week where the flow of the game was completely ruined because of RNG viruses with no virologist to cure. In both situations, ERT had to be called, and in one of the situations the ERT that came did not know how to do virology. Virology is hardly played because of how boring, tedious, and situational it is. From a roleplay perspective, the virologist will receive ZERO roleplay because they will be spending half their time locked up in virology, isolated from the crew and really anything happening. It is more secluded than mining, and it is as useless as the priest. The only use for virologist is curing random events and antagonism, which lets be honest is on par with changeling antagonism because there is hardly any quality roleplay when it comes to releasing a virus and killing/crippling the crew indiscriminately.

Virologist is a shit role and the absolutely worst designed job on the station. No one plays it and we shouldn't have to suffer because RNG dictates that we are afflicted with a virus that blinds you completely and stuns you every 30 seconds. My PR is on par with adding vending machines for the first time and forever, removing total dependency on the chef.

This chemical isn't as strong as everyone makes it out to be. To immunize 10 people for the entirety of the round, you will need 600u of this stuff. For an average shift of 20, 1200u. For a highpop shift of 30, 1800u. And honestly, there will never be a round where everyone is completely immunized. People hardly get vaccinated when there's a cure as it is, especially new players who don't understand disease. All immunizations will need to be tracked as well, because overdosing can cause serious detrimental effects to the user.

And a lot of you are forgetting that this pr exists: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/4549

If there is ever a traitor biochemist, they can immunize themselves with this chemical and do their traitor work. There won't be a situation where the chemist can cockblock an antag virologist, because the chemist IS the antag virologist.

[Scheveningen]

15units of spaceacillin cures stage 2 viruses and lower over time, as how it works is that it tracks against a separate germ meter that viruses use to progress their effects. Uranium has a chance every second to immediately cure any viral infection in a humanoid. Doesn't matter how far along it is. There's a consequence to using it.

Spaceacillin also already works as an immune system agent. You can't catch most diseases with it in your system and even if you do, it starts at stage 1, which is immediately reverted and cured permanently for that strain in the round while the chem is processing in your system. This is strong! But it's perfect the way it is, imo, since not a lot of people make use of it seeing as how uncommon deadly viruses are.

We don't need more instantaneous "fix-it" solutions. This is a roleplay server. Everything should take time. Healing, interacting with objects, etc.

Weren't you complaining about security powercreep awhile ago? Like, legit, this is exactly what powercreep is. You're deliberately outdating pre-existing methods and supplanting their purpose with way better stuff.

Stop doing this. Your development methods are actively harming the game.

[Bygonehero]

No, This is really dumb. The only thing that needs to be done with Virology, is that its research and medical purposes need to be fed into their appropriate departments. Virology should be a science/medical profession and have the accesses therein reflecting that.

[BurgerBB]

15units of spaceacillin cures stage 2 viruses and lower over time, as how it works is that it tracks against a separate germ meter that viruses use to progress their effects. Uranium has a chance every second to immediately cure any viral infection in a humanoid. Doesn't matter how far along it is. There's a consequence to using it.

Spaceacillin also already works as an immune system agent. You can't catch most diseases with it in your system and even if you do, it starts at stage 1, which is immediately reverted and cured permanently for that strain in the round while the chem is processing in your system. This is strong! But it's perfect the way it is, imo, since not a lot of people make use of it seeing as how uncommon deadly viruses are.

We don't need more instantaneous "fix-it" solutions. This is a roleplay server. Everything should take time. Healing, interacting with objects, etc.

Weren't you complaining about security powercreep awhile ago? Like, legit, this is exactly what powercreep is. You're deliberately outdating pre-existing methods and supplanting their purpose with way better stuff.

Stop doing this. Your development methods are actively harming the game.

 

Right let me just spend some time on this because is a lot of silly to unpack.

 

 

Spaceacillin does not cure stage 2 viruses. They only cure stage 1 viruses at >5u dosage and prevent them from being contracted by others.

Viruses to do use germ meters. You are thinking of infections. Infections are completely different than viruses.

Spaceacillin does prevent infections from being contracted, but it is so stupidly inefficient. 30u of Spaceacillin, which is overdose, gives only 10 minutes of protection.

And I don't think I recall complaining about a security powercreep. You're mistaking me for someone else.

As for the last part, I think I should focus this on the most because that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Every single PR I make is reviewed by my peers. They can approve or disapprove it after careful consideration at their will. If I have a shitty PR, they will tell me that it's not needed like they've done before. Any claims that my development methods are actively running the game should be discarded because they have no clue what they're talking about.

[Resilynn]

Alternative solution. Teach doctors to inject 5 units of radium and dose their patient up with dylovene. Virus gone. Tiiiiiiny chance that they'll need additional treatment for the radium.

[BurgerBB]

Bumping this thread.

Virology in its current state is a joke, especially given how there are so few medical players these day, and even fewer people who know virology.

[sonicgotnuked]

instead of making viruses almost useless with a pill, how about we rework virology?

[LordFowl]

This train of thought provides an opportune line of thought for reworking virology. As Burger has made abundantly clear, these chemicals do not invalidate viruses. In fact, I would say they're almost too ineffectual. Resource consumptive and predictive instead of reactive. Of course, that is simply because it is trying too hard to play second fiddle instead of becoming the main piece. I say, seize it.

[Skull132]

This doesn't solve anything. Viruses are already mostly curable at some 80% success rates with spaceacillin. What's more, it is token that some CMOs are familiar enough with virology to bodge a cure.

And finally. Not all random events need to have a 100% reliable counter. Forcing the station to adapt to a situation (an outbreak) by thinking outside the box is a source of good and engaging roleplay. Giving them an easy out is lame.

+1 dismissal.

Addendum. Apparently I was misguided in my initial writing (immunization != curing). But still, I consider it a lame out. It can be mass-produced with active mining, and is easy to fire-and-forget. In fact, it's made to be fire-and-forget. Which, IMO, is bad design. Better to review and buff HAZMAT measures, allowing people to immunize themselves by doing proper suit-ups and quarantine procedures. So my +1 dismissal stands.