Secretchem recipes being randomly generated each round

[BurgerBB]

I find the idea of secretchems being known persistently each round but being unlisted to be bit of a meme especially when some of the reagents themselves can be pretty strong, so I have a great (see: controversial) idea.

I'm proposing that secretchem recipes are generated randomly each round. Now, it won't be blind luck that you'll discover a reagent, you'll have to actually try to research it chemically using a special machine. Since phoron is the research chemical, all recipes will require a special variant of phoron; "supercooled" phoron which is liquid phoron heated at very low temperatures and has mysterious properties, and chemical testing will require another special variant of phoron; "superheated" phoron, which is heated phoron at which is just a few degrees below ignition point.

The way that it'll work is that you'll put in a maximum of 5 chemicals, each being only 1u. The mixture will take 5 seconds per chemical time to process. Once the machine is done processing, it will tell you whether or not the chemical is used in a secret recipe by a semi-subtle way.Two beakers of supercooled phoron and superheated phoron are loaded into the machine as well.

For example, if there are five recipes:

Chemical A: Acetone, Copper, Silver

Chemical B: Acetone, Iron, Gold

Chemical C: Water, Mercury, Gold

And you put in: Acetone, Copper, Silver, Iron, Sodium, Mercury, it will do a simple analysis.

The machine will take 25 seconds to process and print a piece of paper that says:

 

Chemical Information:

[Acetone, Copper, Silver]: Full compound found. Mix with supercooled phoron for mixture.

[Acetone, Iron]: Partial compound found. Further testing required. Mix with superheated phoron for further analysis.

[Acetone, Copper]: Partial compound found, Further testing required. Mix with superheated phoron for further analysis.

[Mercury]: Chemical reacts with supercooled phoron. Further testing required.

[sodium]: Chemical does not react with supercooled or superheated phoron.

 

Now, if you put in: Acetone, Iron, and Superheated phoron, it will give you a list of possible chemicals that could finalize the recipe, approximately 10 pregenerated duds with the real one.

If you just mixed supercooled phoron, acetone, copper, silver, it will create a pre-generated secretchem which has a generic name like "Chemical 523" with an unknown description. The scientist will actually have to test the chemical to see if it does anything of note.

To prevent disappointment, chemicals will be handmade and interesting. Obviously all the secretchems will be ported to this new system, and new ones will have to be created. There will be chemicals that turn your skin darker or lighter, chemicals that act as strong poisons, chemicals that act as strong healthing reagents, chemicals that will give you mutations, chemicals that will give you traumas, chemicals that will give you disabilities. Since phoron is this mysterious chemical, there is a lot you can do with it.

[Azande]

Yes please! Make it actually something for science to work on. Love it.

[Kaed]

I already think it's bad enough that we have Alchemy as a secret recipe list, without expanding it into an entire fantasy themed alternative to actual science in a science fiction setting.

I would much rather Alchemy be removed entirely then this happen, but that's probably not going to happen so just - 1.

The only randomized Alchemy recipes I'd support are just making the ones we have now randomized every round, so that you don't have people spending the entire around pretending to be an alchemist and working off previous rounds work. Either you find a secret recipe in a round or you don't.

Or remove all the magical chemicals like your elixir of life and Liquid light and just focus on exploring the strange properties of phoron. Rename toxins to Phoron Research and make them able to do more than make bombs.

Don't fucking call it Alchemy.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Guest

[Bygonehero]

I like this but what about the limitations of some secret chems that require chems you will rarely encounter in a round? Stuff like ectoplasm is hard to find. Additionally our setting is science fantasy.

[Snakebittenn]

As an alchemist, nobody is going to try for these. Nobody is going to gather the materials to maybe find an RNG Chem just to have to find it again next round. If you wanted to remove secret chems, just be straightforward about it.

[TishinaStalker]

Our setting is science fiction, with mysterious elements thrown in during certain round types that could typically be found in fantasy settings.

 

P sure all antags are canon. So Vampires and Wizards do exist. So it isn't just "mysterious elements", it's straight up magic and the undead do exist.

[Bauser]

Kaed didn't say they aren't canon; he's saying that they're sufficiently rare in-universe that nobody actually believes they're magic (EDIT: until they see it firsthand, like irrefutable evidence). Therefore, the fantasy aspect of our setting is extremely minimal. Therefore, he finds the overt presence of alchemy to be ridiculous.

[LanceLynxx]

Itt: finding out chems by trial and error is too hard and feelsbadman that others put effort in researching them, but I don’t wanna, pls nerf

A lot of science IS trial and error, mind you, a lot of modern day chemicals were accidentaly found, penicillin for instance. Or LSD. Among many other examples of trial, error, or luck.

Major -1 , this only makes it even MORE of a meme and removes the reward for discovering them yourself.

[Snakebittenn]

Also literally what is so wrong with alchemy? It paved pretty much everything about modern chemistry. Transmutation is even possible irl with enough energy.

[Bauser]

Alchemy led to chemistry, yes, in the same way that bloodletting and miasma theory led to medicine

(Point being: it paved the way because it was made obsolete by the modern version which proved it to be largely invalid. Therefore, it makes sense for alchemy to exist in the past, not in the future.)

[BurgerBB]

I like this but what about the limitations of some secret chems that require chems you will rarely encounter in a round? Stuff like ectoplasm is hard to find. Additionally our setting is science fantasy.

 

It won't be completely random, but selectively random.

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Guide_to_Chemistry

All chemicals under "Dispenser" and "Other", except for milk, toxin, welding fuel, corn oil, and capsaicin oil. will be in the random chemical compound list. There will never be a multistage reagent required, except for salt.

[Snakebittenn]

Alchemy led to chemistry, yes, in the same way that bloodletting and miasma theory led to medicine

(Point being: it paved the way because it was made obsolete by the modern version which proved it to be largely invalid. Therefore, it makes sense for alchemy to exist in the past, not in the future.)

 

If Lawrence Principe can do it in 2018, NT workers can do it in 2461.

Also, that's even worse regarding process of elimination.

[BurgerBB]

If people are too concerned about luck, the secretchems themselves could be psuedo RNG where the recipe is selected from random chemicals that make sense. For example, if there was a recipe for liquid fire, it would choose from a pre-made list of selected reagents such as ethanol, napalm, thermite, welder fuel, sulphur, phosphorus, and hydrazine.

[Asheram]

+1

My words on this will simply be that If people will insist on keeping "secret" chems and alchemy out of the wiki, then make the ingredients random.

There's absolutely no point in making ingredients for such things persistent if it is Intended that you research for them.

Edit: Heck, we should simply call out folk who persistently make these secret chems and alchemy for metaknowledge.

[Bygonehero]

I dunno, all I see are those people who sunk entire rounds studying secret chems and not roleplaying giving this suggestion a -1. Tish's input is probably the most relevant, but the most bias against this system, being that they know all of the secret chems in the game due to being involved in their addition. All in all, I feel this system makes it more accessible to players, which is ultimately good gameplay. The smugness that comes off of secret chem players, and the lengths they arbitrarily go to hide and obfuscate their own work is cancer to our workplace simulation. This suggestion is an excellent resolution, and has my full support +1

I think every time someone says "look yourself lel if you want to discover them" It makes me wonder if they realize the point of this game is roleplay. Whether I should roleplay or stand in one spot clicking buttons. I think I'll pass imo

Edited May 11, 2018 by Guest

[Snakebittenn]

This is far from "more accessible" this makes it basically xenobotany to where your progress doesn't even matter after the round is over. Atleast the secret chem recipes we have now are static. Have you even put much effort into finding them out yourself?

[Saudus]

I think these secret chems are silly and more suitable for TG etc, but this randomization probably isn't the way to solve it.

At least now there is a mention of secret chemicals in the chemistry wiki page (under foreword), so people are actually given some chance of knowing about them and discovering them without hanging on the complaints/suggestions forums.

[Bygonehero]

This is far from "more accessible" this makes it basically xenobotany to where your progress doesn't even matter after the round is over. Atleast the secret chem recipes we have now are static. Have you even put much effort into finding them out yourself?

See my above edit, as I updated in the realization that those people would say exactly that.

[Faris]

Tish's input is probably the most relevant, but the most bias against this system, being that they know all of the secret chems in the game due to being involved in their addition.

 

 

Just to clarify something. The only people that would know the recipes are the ones that add it and those with access to the files. Tish is neither.

[Bygonehero]

Tish's input is probably the most relevant, but the most bias against this system, being that they know all of the secret chems in the game due to being involved in their addition.

 

 

Just to clarify something. The only people that would know the recipes are the ones that add it and those with access to the files. Tish is neither.

 

Yet, I have an understanding that this isnt the case from Tish no less, Keep in mind, this isnt anything against Tish, they are a wonderful chemist and admin, but unless I am wrong I am pretty sure they know them all by their own admission

[Asheram]

I think these secret chems are silly and more suitable for TG etc, but this randomization probably isn't the way to solve it.

At least now there is a mention of secret chemicals in the chemistry wiki page (under foreword), so people are actually given some chance of knowing about them and discovering them without hanging on the complaints/suggestions forums.

But if they are indeed static, why aren't they public knowledge?

Chemistry is already complaining that it's completing its task in 30 minutes or less, so why not giving them more to do and have them keep researching? Currently what we have is a small group of people greedily hoarding information and using it to create stuff no one else has the knowledge to do. It's technically full on metaknowledge at this point.

[Snakebittenn]

I think these secret chems are silly and more suitable for TG etc, but this randomization probably isn't the way to solve it.

At least now there is a mention of secret chemicals in the chemistry wiki page (under foreword), so people are actually given some chance of knowing about them and discovering them without hanging on the complaints/suggestions forums.

But if they are indeed static, why aren't they public knowledge?

Chemistry is already complaining that it's completing its task in 30 minutes or less, so why not giving them more to do and have them keep researching? Currently what we have is a small group of people greedily hoarding information and using it to create stuff no one else has the knowledge to do. It's technically full on metaknowledge at this point.

 

Can't exactly hoard information literally anyone can go take the time to find out themselves.

[Asheram]

I think these secret chems are silly and more suitable for TG etc, but this randomization probably isn't the way to solve it.

At least now there is a mention of secret chemicals in the chemistry wiki page (under foreword), so people are actually given some chance of knowing about them and discovering them without hanging on the complaints/suggestions forums.

But if they are indeed static, why aren't they public knowledge?

Chemistry is already complaining that it's completing its task in 30 minutes or less, so why not giving them more to do and have them keep researching? Currently what we have is a small group of people greedily hoarding information and using it to create stuff no one else has the knowledge to do. It's technically full on metaknowledge at this point.

 

Can't exactly hoard information literally anyone can go take the time to find out themselves.

Will you tell me the ingredients for the secret chems? If you won't then you are proving my point.

[Snakebittenn]

But if they are indeed static, why aren't they public knowledge?

Chemistry is already complaining that it's completing its task in 30 minutes or less, so why not giving them more to do and have them keep researching? Currently what we have is a small group of people greedily hoarding information and using it to create stuff no one else has the knowledge to do. It's technically full on metaknowledge at this point.

 

Can't exactly hoard information literally anyone can go take the time to find out themselves.

Will you tell me the ingredients for the secret chems? If you won't then you are proving my point.

 

I sure won't, but I can offer you guidance.

[Asheram]

Can't exactly hoard information literally anyone can go take the time to find out themselves.

Will you tell me the ingredients for the secret chems? If you won't then you are proving my point.

 

I sure won't, but I can offer you guidance.

Point made.