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New Code Discussions: Shells v Androids


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So, here's the thing with the Shells. They require a review of all the code (Which, fortunately, I do have), and then an unknown amount of refractoring to make them less snowflake in terms of how the game manages them. This means, in short, that Shells require a lot of work.


At which point, I would like to also look at an alternative to them. Polaris has a system whereby you can make a character that's a full android. Has an android brain, full robo limbs (including torso), and so forth. They also come with cool sprites indicating a fully prosthetic construction. The initial implementation in question: https://github.com/PolarisSS13/Polaris/pull/609 .


Now, both systems have their plusses and negatives. Both systems will, at this point, take a similar amount of time to implement. My question is, which would we prefer?


If we do go with what Polaris has, we will keep the monitor-head IPCs and fix their bugs/bring them up to spec with internal components and all that (minus my jiggery with their brute modifier). And anyone can become an android for the species they have whitelists for (minus Vaurca and Diona, for lore raisins).


If we don't go with what Polaris has, then the standard Shells will return in all their snowflake-code glory. And life will continue as it was.


Third alternative is to do what Polaris did, and completely remove IPCs and replace them with the androids. Then make the androids accessible to anyone with an "Android" whitelist. It would effectively stack on your other whitelists. (This is probably the best choice, imo.)


Awaiting on GMR to post further details about the Polaris shenaniganry, as he's familiar with them.

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Alright, I went ahead and did a little testing and fiddling to bring you this demonstration. It'll probably read like a shitty powerpoint presentation but w/e.


This is an example of what the "Full Prosthetic/Android"s can look like. They work by giving you a new option in the 'limb' portion of setup, "Full Body", selecting such will allow you then to select from a variety of skins, and from there you have your character.


You still have a wide variety of customization options, as per a normal human or whatever you happen to be. From hair, to eye colour, to undergarments. The character setup in Polaris' master code is far more robust than our current setup, but a suggestion can be made to port that as well if you wish.


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Below are both examples of Full Body Prosthetics, the eyesore on the left is an example of how much customization still remains. On the right, is a simple full body prosthetic with blue eyes, using a prosthetic skin unique to Polaris that can also be ported if people so desire. Both of these use the same 'skin'.

 

Mmi4gbo.png

 

The main difference between the one on the left and the right is not clearly visible, but, the one on the left has an 'assisted' brain, versus a 'mechanical' brain on the right. That is, MMI versus Positronic.


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This is not visible via examination (An oversight I'd imagine), but as you may notice, the flavour of these synthetics has been changed so as to fit them.

 

M1ONTyf.png

 

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Another example of flavour change.

 

DqAwQAN.png

 

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And should you gib, or remove the components of these synthetics, you won't find the usual mechanical organs.

 

u9DXZLN.png

 

s9nTEGs.png

 

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But, whilst not visible upon examination, should you gib one of these synthetics with an 'assisted' brain instead of a 'mechanical' brain, you'll happen to find an MMI in place of the Positronic.

 

ywmsJIj.png

 

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If you have any further questions or concerns, I can make a point to test the various aspects of this feature further, but for now I believe I've covered the core of the suggestion. Your customization will be different, you will no longer be able to entirely resemble your species of choice as a free synthetic. But that does not mean your customization is gone, as you can tell. There is still a variety to be had, even moreso should we port over the character setup and custom loadout options of Polaris' code.

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I'd like the Polaris snowflake androids. HOWEVER, if it works how I think it works, please don't allow posibrains to control entirely organic bodies, because that's just not how it works.

 

Posibrains could potentially be available for bodies that are fully synthetic, and also kept restricted to those who have an IPC whitelist? This way, non-whitelisted people could only play androids, not true synths. And obviously posibrains wouldn't be applicable where certain organs are kept organic.

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I'd like the Polaris snowflake androids. HOWEVER, if it works how I think it works, please don't allow posibrains to control entirely organic bodies, because that's just not how it works.

 

Posibrains could potentially be available for bodies that are fully synthetic, and also kept restricted to those who have an IPC whitelist? This way, non-whitelisted people could only play androids, not true synths. And obviously posibrains wouldn't be applicable where certain organs are kept organic.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but full body prosthesis (for an MMI) will be available to those without an IPC whitelist? Your answer to my question just raised more questions, maybe because maybe I'm not totally comprehending all of this but, what? What is going to be available and to whom? Because, putting a posibrain/MMI in an unlawed body should be reserved to those with IPC whitelists... again, unless I'm not comprehending all of this.

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The skins available, in full.

 

mGdkaDN.png

 

From left to right;

Bishop

Hephaestus (It's misspelled as Hesphiastos, for some unusual reason)

Zeng-Hu

Xion

Morpheus (Traditional IPC, can be given CRT monitor via a custom loadout item, said monitor's screen can be changed at will, and cannot be taken off from the mask slot)

Ward-Takahashi (The Polaris' exclusive prosthetic skin, can be ported easily)

Unbranded w/ Bishop arm, Zeng-Hu head w/ brown cut hair, and Hephaestus leg to show that you can mix and match. (Full unbranded looks exactly like an unskinned Shell would on oldcode)

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but full body prosthesis (for an MMI) will be available to those without an IPC whitelist? Your answer to my question just raised more questions, maybe because maybe I'm not totally comprehending all of this but, what? What is going to be available and to whom? Because, putting a posibrain/MMI in an unlawed body should be reserved to those with IPC whitelists... again, unless I'm not comprehending all of this.

 

IPC, is by definition, Integrated Positronic Chassis. So if Skull so allows, yes, unwhitelisted players can be Cybernetic Androids. But IPCs proper would still be restricted. Alternatively, both can be restricted.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but full body prosthesis (for an MMI) will be available to those without an IPC whitelist? Your answer to my question just raised more questions, maybe because maybe I'm not totally comprehending all of this but, what? What is going to be available and to whom? Because, putting a posibrain/MMI in an unlawed body should be reserved to those with IPC whitelists... again, unless I'm not comprehending all of this.

 

IPC, is by definition, Integrated Positronic Chassis. So if Skull so allows, yes, unwhitelisted players can be Cybernetic Androids. But IPCs proper would still be restricted. Alternatively, both can be restricted.

 

Both should be restricted. Regardless of the name, "cybernetic androids" are still, basically, just IPCs with organic brains. That is the only mechanical difference between the two. Applying to be an IPC should encompass both, not just allow you to have a different brain type.

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If you apply to be an IPC, then you're applying to be a Positronic. An MMI =/= a Positronic Brain. But as noted, if one can be restricted, then so can both.

 

Applying for mechanics is bad, but... I feel it has to be brought up in this argument. Allowing people to play fully synthetic androids with organic brains is nearly no different than playing a fully synthetic android with a positronic brain. Allowing this would allow people to gain the mechanics of IPCs without actually being allowed to be an IPC. This is bad, for reasons I think are rather obvious.


Please, make them both go through the IPC whitelist, Skull and anyone else responsible for this. That's the gist of my argument here. I'll take a look at this thread again when I wake up tomorrow.

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The thing is, IPCs weren't originally really meant to even be androids. Not by any extent. They are positronic integrated chassis, that were later evolved to also encompass Shells. The positronic brains themselves should be limited in access, yes. Mainly because, roleplay and lore wise, they are different from an android's brain: one is 100% synthetic, the other is a biosynthetic analogy. That is to say, a positronic brain runs a program, whereas an android's brain runs a human mind.


Another note is, they won't gain IPC mechanics fully. They still require air, are susceptible to poisons/hunger/nutrition, etcetera. All of which an IPC is not. The only two mechanics that they do inherit, as far as I'm tracking, is an ignorance of pain and heat generation. (The latter will make them more difficult to play than an IPC if you want to go EVA, as you need both an air source and a radiator.)


An alternative is to do what Polaris did, and completely remove IPCs and replace them with the androids. Then make the androids accessible to anyone with an "Android" whitelist. It would effectively stack on your other whitelists. However, at this point, we'd be removing most of the IPC mechanics as well.

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Another note is, they won't gain IPC mechanics fully. They still require air, are susceptible to poisons/hunger/nutrition, etcetera. All of which an IPC is not.

After further testing, they are immune to poisons, they do not get full from eating meaning they do not benefit from nutriment, and they still do not breathe.


Their organs are as noted before. A microbattery, optical sensors, and the brain. They behave exactly as a full-bodied synthetic/android should.

 

jPyBCLU.png

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This can either be changed, or we go with this:

 

An alternative is to do what Polaris did, and completely remove IPCs and replace them with the androids. Then make the androids accessible to anyone with an "Android" whitelist. It would effectively stack on your other whitelists.

 

The general gist is. There's no point in having the IPC race, and this as a separate thing at the same time.

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The skins available, in full.

 

mGdkaDN.png

 

From left to right;

Bishop

Hephaestus (It's misspelled as Hesphiastos, for some unusual reason)

Zeng-Hu

Xion

Morpheus (Traditional IPC, can be given CRT monitor via a custom loadout item, said monitor's screen can be changed at will, and cannot be taken off from the mask slot)

Ward-Takahashi (The Polaris' exclusive prosthetic skin, can be ported easily)

Unbranded w/ Bishop arm, Zeng-Hu head w/ brown cut hair, and Hephaestus leg to show that you can mix and match. (Full unbranded looks exactly like an unskinned Shell would on oldcode)

 

I would fully endorse shells and IPCs being replaced with this.

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So to make sure, the Polaris version includes not just human-esque androids, but also unathi, tajaran, etc?

Please hold, I'll check this in a minute and edit this post afterwards.

 

DE4AJZO.png

 

00wOU2p.png

 

I do like the look of that.


Perhaps even bringing it half way so not as far as the shells we had before, but sort of like this suggests. I'd happily play an android that looked like that. (Maybe less creepy though)

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So to make sure, the Polaris version includes not just human-esque androids, but also unathi, tajaran, etc?

Please hold, I'll check this in a minute and edit this post afterwards.

 

DE4AJZO.png

 

00wOU2p.png

 

I do like the look of that.


Perhaps even bringing it half way so not as far as the shells we had before, but sort of like this suggests. I'd happily play an android that looked like that. (Maybe less creepy though)

 

These sprites.. remind me of FNAF. I'm not sure I like that, tbh.

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So, here's the thing with the Shells. They require a review of all the code (Which, fortunately, I do have), and then an unknown amount of refractoring to make them less snowflake in terms of how the game manages them. This means, in short, that Shells require a lot of work.


At which point, I would like to also look at an alternative to them. Polaris has a system whereby you can make a character that's a full android. Has an android brain, full robo limbs (including torso), and so forth. They also come with cool sprites indicating a fully prosthetic construction. The initial implementation in question: https://github.com/PolarisSS13/Polaris/pull/609 .


Now, both systems have their plusses and negatives. Both systems will, at this point, take a similar amount of time to implement. My question is, which would we prefer?


If we do go with what Polaris has, we will keep the monitor-head IPCs and fix their bugs/bring them up to spec with internal components and all that (minus my jiggery with their brute modifier). And anyone can become an android for the species they have whitelists for (minus Vaurca and Diona, for lore raisins).


If we don't go with what Polaris has, then the standard Shells will return in all their snowflake-code glory. And life will continue as it was.


Third alternative is to do what Polaris did, and completely remove IPCs and replace them with the androids. Then make the androids accessible to anyone with an "Android" whitelist. It would effectively stack on your other whitelists. (This is probably the best choice, imo.)


Awaiting on GMR to post further details about the Polaris shenaniganry, as he's familiar with them.

 

If I'm reading this right, the third alternative removes my TV head? I'm completely against this. I like my TV head robot. I'm more down for the first option at that point.

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I've been playing on Polaris for a bit, as well as fooling around with their code, and as much as I like our shell system, I would much prefer having their full body prosthetics. It's more of what I initially imagined shells would be, anyway, and it really makes IPCs as a separate species redundant (I would prefer only the posibrain option being whitelisted). However, there are a few things that I think should be changed if we port them over.


One, colour customization. It would be really nice to be able to change the colour of each limb, if not individually, then based on body colour. Especially for Zeng-Hu parts on a skrell/tajara/unathi/nonwhite human, it can look rather strange having your robolimbs be stuck on the default white human skin colour. Also, I would really miss PARAGON being pink.


Two, remove the seams on Zeng-Hu parts, and resprite the female torso so it doesn't look the exact same as the male one. Considering all that business with the Shell Registration Act, it's already been established that we can make completely realistic mechanical bodies, and it would be a shame to retcon that whole thing, especially with all of the RP that has come out of it. Hell, we're close to making humanlike prosthetics even today. At the very least, take away the horrible neck seam that looks like a beard. It looks awful, especially on female characters.


Also, would we be porting over things like EAL, the unique "Android/Gynoid" examine texts, and the renames for lawed synthetics - robots to drones, and androids to robots? Will prosthetic parts be a difficult to repair as they are on Polaris?

 

If I'm reading this right, the third alternative removes my TV head? I'm completely against this. I like my TV head robot. I'm more down for the first option at that point.

 

TV head would still be an option, with the Morpheus parts.

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If I'm reading this right, the third alternative removes my TV head? I'm completely against this. I like my TV head robot. I'm more down for the first option at that point.
The skins available, in full.

 

mGdkaDN.png

 

From left to right;

Bishop

Hephaestus (It's misspelled as Hesphiastos, for some unusual reason)

Zeng-Hu

Xion

Morpheus (Traditional IPC, can be given CRT monitor via a custom loadout item, said monitor's screen can be changed at will, and cannot be taken off from the mask slot)

Ward-Takahashi (The Polaris' exclusive prosthetic skin, can be ported easily)

Unbranded w/ Bishop arm, Zeng-Hu head w/ brown cut hair, and Hephaestus leg to show that you can mix and match. (Full unbranded looks exactly like an unskinned Shell would on oldcode)

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