Susan

The current tasers are weak, and it's not regardless of what someone's wearing. Siemens_coeficient is a value used to mitigate the damage from tasers; cult robes are entirely immune to it, nuke ops have a buff against it. If your target is wearing armor you will need more than 3 shots to down him. Tasers only have a 5 shot clip. If you have to fight more than a single person, and more often than not you do, you're entirely screwed. Leave them as they are.

No. Nuke ops have enough at their disposal and a combat Syndicate borg has literally no business outside of that godawful roundtype.

Unfortunately, the game tends not to care what job you are and places you in situations where you are forced to make decisions. In reality, detectives are sworn officers of the law and have complete and total justification to perform arrests, execute warrants, and whatnot; it should be no different in game. This definition is holdover from Baystation because detectives there liked to run into nuke squads to arrest them by murdering them with their insta-knockdown gun. This is no longer the case. While yes, this situation is better suited to a security officer, the point is that's irrelevant. The situation is not not going to happen because your job is different. I got sucked out into space with Brar not of my own volition, and the game certainly didn't give a shit whether or not my job was 'security officer'. Security's response would have been heavily delayed and there was no other alternative to prevent the suspect from escaping other than to shoot him. He was a fleeing felon suspected of a violent crime and had the capacity to return and effect more violent crimes. I'd also like to mention we liked Brar for a second murder, and for the first, there was no doubt whether or not he committed it. We knew 100% it could only be him and no one else. Then, evidently, this is a failure of administration, because this mindset is inherently wrong. It seems that the majority of people on this server are under the impression no one should ever shoot a guy (unless you're antag of course, then go ahead) unless the barrel of his revolver is aimed at your head. Unfortunately, this is not how it operates in reality. Law enforcement officers are given more leeway to apply lethal force than civilians, whose justification is self-defense. So I always take coments about 'a history of using unnecessary lethal force' with a grain of salt because, while I know of a small handful of situations where the escalation happened too fast, I can easily justify and explain my reasoning for doing it. Just because you feel that security has no grounds to shoot antagonists that actually pose a threat does not make it so, and should not. Personally, I couldn't care about non-chair RP. I already explained previously how these things can actually lead to more roleplay; no one ever chastises antags for killing people to 'make things interesting', of course, so long as they get their exploding station RP. However, in the event security has to deal with let's say a wizard who has been teleporting around, attacking people, and is known to be able to escape custody at will so he can get out of his cuffs and resume attacking people, then shooting him to death is totally unjustified. Yes, I have been in this situation, and yes, people in deadsay were all up in arms. I can barely fathom why. Believability should take precedence. This is an effective explanation and shortening of what happened. I was not placed into the situation because I didn't want it to happen to begin with; the airlock was depressurized and we were both sucked out into the asteroid. I have yet to see even a single response to the question Frances has been asking for two pages now, short of Cassie, though her attacking of the role of detective is entirely pointless because it was a situation I did not have control over with to begin with. Everyone wants to sit here and say 'shooting people is bad mmkay' but no one has offered an alternative in preventing the suspect from escaping outside of using the only ranged weapon in my possession, likely because they know they can't come up with an alternative. Allowing his escape is not an acceptable alternative, either. It's easy to sit there and look back with 20/20 vision, but that's not how these things are treated in reality. IAB investigations don't ask 'why didn't you do this', they assess the officer's state of mind and the reasons he had for discharging his weapon, because shooting someone is not black and white. It's entirely grey. Extenuating circumstances matter. Arguably a cop's gun is for self defense but they use it for a hell of a lot more than just protection.

The problem arises in that the first time you are shot in the head in real life you are dead. It takes a single shot. In this game, it takes anywhere between six to twenty and then beyond. The number of shots is really meaningless. I don't buy that 500 years in the future humans have evolved to the point where we shrug off bullets without a care. Six shots to kill is more like the one it takes in reality; I don't complain it takes so many, because 1 shot kills are utter crap, but take into consideration these game mechanics when talking about the number of shots. In reality, officers are trained to aim for center mass and continue firing until the suspect is down, at that point likely dead. Had I not been aiming at his head I would have kept shooting until he was down and or he died. I wouldn't need to have fired six shots, because being hit by one or two bullets is enough to trip up or wind most humans and he would have hit the floor due to the shock of being shot or any other number of things. That also isn't a thing in this game, for balance reasons. No it doesn't. In all logic you could slip your cuffs while drifting through space. Just because OOC mechanics don't allow it doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered. I don't agree. You predicted my response; cutting people slack because you OOCly know their role is metagame, and metagame is bad. And also, see previous point about a few shots. You can't compare the function of guns in reality to the guns in game. The laws of physics and how people react to being shot and all the things that make real guns dangerous don't apply to SS13. I've eaten like three .50 cal SMG rounds in the head and managed to limp away to be saved by medical while being conscious for at least three minutes, likely more if it wasn't due to the fact I was in a vacuum. Guns do not operate the same way at all. Seven shots, actually, is the minimum to drop someone, because above 150 damage paincrit sets in and you drop. .38 rounds do 20 damage per shot. Anything less than that and you can shrug off the damage for a few minutes. I lean towards believability over interesting. Personally, I would rather there be zero antags and 24/7 extended with admin events and hand-picked antagonists working toward a server storyline where all gamemodes can occur and have continuity beyond 'welp back to hellhole #2'. However, in this situation, since I favor reasonable responses and believability over being incompetent to buy an hour of, what, space drifting? Then he comes back and is immediately caught and hallucinogen stings all of security? I chose to shoot Brar with justification to do so; yes, hitman type antags are awful, but being stealthy and being interesting aren't mutually exclusive. Being believable and being interesting aren't mutually exclusive. Were it not for the crew transfer, the HoS could have launched an investigation into the whole thing, as you typically do when an officer discharges their firearm. Get IAB involved; just like an antag killing someone to create RP, killing antags also can create RP. Seto said Brar was 'one of them', a changeling. He could have been MMI'd. His body autopsied and examined, giving science RP.

What Frances says is true; I have nothing against you, Conspire, I simply find it more productive and less annoying to move disagreements to the forums and simply agree with the administration on server and not argue to avoid any incidents. Since staff complaints are an open forum, my purpose here is not to insinuate you are bad at your job, or are stupid, or anything like that. I simply didn't agree with your ruling in the situation, and I don't purposely seek any punitive action or any big squabble fights over it. I just want to bring this to attention because, my impression, is lots of people seem to think security needs to be totally restrained even when it is logical to use lethal force. If people don't want to be taken out of a round they should not make decisions that lead to that. If I decide to take on three nuke ops by myself and die, that's my fault. If I decide to murder someone and get into a shootout with sec and end up dead, that's my fault. I think this is the best choice here. Rather than viewing it as just 'Officer X shot fleeing suspect Y', the situations that led up to what happened are important. Brar was a man charged with murder. Standard capacity air tanks can have hours of oxygen, and Brar could affect his trajectory and return, still having his ID, and effect more violent crimes. Brar was warned previously. If it was an antag shooting a fleeing hostage that had stolen a special piece of equipment or had information that could effect their capture, then shooting them would perhaps be justified. A grey outlook when dealing with antagonist and security players, rather than 'killing people is bad' or 'mindless slaughter', and approaching each situation with a fresh slate and a desire to understand circumstances will lead to, in my opinion, better judgement. Just like in real life, regardless of American or English law, when an officer shoots a suspect, it isn't black and white. Outside factors play a major role. If a security guard lasered a guy to death because he thought he had a gun in his hand, but it turned out to be a cap gun, that could be justified. An officer lasering an assistant to death because he is bald isn't. Just one last clarification, though. Target was not downed. On this server, the detective's revolver is a fully lethal weapon and does not possess either holodamage or knockdown. He was still running when he was killed. Further, when using a lethal weapon, you are not trained to incapacitate, if you ever have to shoot a suspect you are trained to shoot until he is dead.

Approved.

Shuttle control consoles. Like really. Could at least look like a craft's dashboard or something, like on Goon.

I know I shouted over general comms, "Get down or your brains will be blown out" or something, but it might have been while you were DC'd. You dropped when I told you to so I didn't think you weren't there. I'm sorry if you were actually disconnected.

BYOND Key: SueTheCake Staff BYOND Key: Conspire2Ignite Reason for complaint: Contesting decision Additional remarks: I am here to contest Conspire's decision in this scenario, and to call to attention this line of thought, because I believe it to be a negative viewpoint; strongarming security into not using justifiable lethal force because of OOC concerns seems more in line with Baystation's motto, and I am loathe to see this sort of thing happen here. I do not have logs with me, but staff are more than capable of retrieving them by themselves, so if anything needs to be posted they can hopefully provide. During a changeling round on FEB 22, between 6 to 7 PM central, murder victims were discovered on the mining outpost. All suspects except one were eliminated; only one person was with the victim, only one person had access to the victim, and only one person was in a position to commit the murder. That suspect was Imraj Brar, who was suspected of committing a felony with solid ground. While I was bringing the bodies back to mining, Brar was being accosted by an officer who had been ordered to arrest him. At this point, he attempted to flee arrest by forcing the airlock, sucking himself and I out into the vacuum. I pointed my revolver at him, the only weapon I had outside of a flash (which was not usable for obvious reasons) and ordered him to submit or lethal force would be used. His connection then dropped or something, and security eventually came back outside to arrest Brar. Back in the airlock, the evidence is being moved, but someone cycles the airlock at an improper time. The external door is then forced, and both I and the suspect are once again flushed into a vacuum. Brar was cuffed, but immediately proceeded to attempt to escape. Having been warned that lethal force would be used against him previously, and with zero possibility security could get out there and stop him due to firelocks and cycling airlocks, I shot and killed him to prevent him from escaping into space and returning to commit further violent crimes against station personnel, as having been found out, he would have nothing left to lose. Brar was warned that lethal force would be used against him. We had evidence that gave us more than a suspicion he was guilty of a crime that involved the infliction of serious physical injury, that being murder, and the lethal force was used to prevent the escape of the suspect in line with what would be considered justifiable homicide. The application of lethal force was justified as far as the law is concerned. Brar was warned, he was suspected and charged - with good reason - of committing a violent felony, and he fled arrest and was then shot and killed. My original intent was to shoot him in the chest, but I had left the target on the head due to having to remove the helmet from a hardsuit earlier. Even still, in this scenario, I was legally justified to kill Brar; when contacted by admin staff, they did not point out a rule I had broken, but moreover simply said that 'killing people is the worse punishment', which it is. However, I argue, that any person who takes part in a violent capital crime on par with murder, such as rape or kidnapping or grand sabotage knowingly puts themselves in the line of fire from security. Officers should not be yelled at or penalized for making use of lethal force when it is in line with reasonable expectations of a law enforcement officer and isn't just about validkilling the antag; for example, allowing a serial bomber to escape can result in further civilian casualties, and as such lethal force should not be disbarred simply because 'ur takin da antag out of the round'. Antags who perform such high profile crimes should not be absolved from such a response due to OOC conerns. Antags don't stop to think, and are not asked to stop and think by administration, 'what if killing the only security officer would make the round less impactful or make rp worse', yet security is held to a double standard and scorned when justifiable lethal force is applied. 'Why didn't you tase him, why didn't you flash him, why didn't you tase the guy with the .50 cal SMG?' This line of thought is, in my opinion, reprehensible, and we should not expect any character, antag, security, medical, or otherwise to use OOC information to affect IC affairs. Not arresting someone or asking someone not to kill someone because they're an antag is metagaming. Of course, I do not advocate walking up and lasering people for stealing a fork, but in this situation the usage of force was more than reasonable and justifiable and I disagree with the moderator's stance on this issue and feel that this mindset should not be encouraged or enforced due to the fact not only is it a double standard but it is stifling in general.

Approved.

If you have a collapsed lung IRL, like some vital organs in your body, such as your eyes and kidneys, you have two lungs. If one ruptured lung is stable, the other can keep you alive, but you will experience pain and shortness of breath, among other things.

Basically, if your lung takes anything about 10 brute you're dead. Lung ruptures were irksome before but not fatal. Making them fatal added nothing but 'oh boy I sure love black screen rp'.

Chaz, you seem to forget that moderation staff can in fact be wrong, and in this instance I am saying that whoever cleared this is wrong and this should not be acceptable behavior. It has nothing to do with mechanics, it has to do with staff justifying or allowing powergame.

He means the bridge and AI core look awful and I'm inclined to agree, the way it was prior to the special snowflake rearrangement was fine. AI core in the middle, rooms situated around it. Now every room is small and choked.

I played with Ikky for two years on Baystation and can advocate his ability to play Unathi well. He also is Baystation's Unathi lore master, and I feel seniority on the server is something that doesn't need to be considered here. He is quite capable of playing lizards well; he wrote the lore for them on Baystation, after all, and I don't see him abandoning Aurora.

We want the head to be vulnerable, but not entirely powerless. If discovered by a single guy it could stun him and flee. Defensive abilities, not offensive.

We all know this story. Changeling is being a butt. Changeling is shot. Changeling 'dies'. Two minutes later it regenerates, still straitjacketed, prompting security to go 'o no so spoopy' and shoot it again until they decide to cremate it. Regenerative stasis is crap. Changelings are basically utterly invincible short of cremation or sawing their head off, and there's no roleplay fostered by this ability. They just come back like a zombie. No bone squelching blood spurting horrible abomination like what someone would expect a mode based off The Thing to be. In essence; So I propose a smart way to rework changeling stasis. If you guys remember from the movie, the scientist in the arctic outpost did in fact succeed in surprising and then torching The Thing, presuming that they killed it. But instead of it magically reviving, it did something more subtle, smarter. Watch that, then come back to me. I'll wait. Go on. You finished? Good. Because what I'm proposing is similar to that. When a Changeling dies and enters stasis, rather than reviving as some sort of not-spooky zombie, it instead attempts to save itself and pops its head off, creating a little headspider mob that can hide and ventcrawl similar to a mouse. The body is a shell left behind, and changelings with more points could possibly disconnect their other limbs, like their hands, to distract security or whoever as they escape. Hands like facehuggers, lunge at your face, stun you, while the headspider gets away. So the changeling is a little headspider right now, and how does it become a force to be reckoned with again? It escapes somewhere safe and then proceeds to nest and regrow a body, since it is capable of doing so. During this time, the changeling is vulnerable and can be killed if the head suffers enough damage, but it can disengage from its nest to escape again if need be. Thus, the invincible boring zombie changeling is gone, the spoopy The Thing changeling returns, and to compensate for the loss of stupid overpoweredness, Greater Form could be reworked and re-added if the headspider or full changeling want to put themselves in harm's way to transform into their spooky ass self.

Approved.

This is apparently something Mirk consistently does. Further evidence of powergame, round as of 1:09 PM central, Feb 9 2015. On the mining outpost, chain-eating and spacing monkeys, adding nothing, inflating genome points. This behavior seriously needs to be curbed.

Approved.

Crew status isn't defined by who is and isn't on the manifest. It's defined by whoever is contracted to work on the NSS Aurora. Someone's crewmembership doesn't magically appear or disappear depending on the manifest. ERT are also representatives of CentComm, and are crew, and are the highest rank. So you should be listening to them.

No. Wrong. He did not ever attempt escape. The warden was merely trying to implant him and then he immediately responded by deathstinging her and then following it up with "I'll cooperate". He did not use his insta-kill ability to create roleplay, or try to escape, he did it for no reason other than to just murder Meowy because... why? We had him in cuffs. We all had guns. There was no way he was going to get out of there, so why bother? It was a simple tracking implant, and he didn't even try to get out in the ensuing chaos. He sat there and said "I'll cooperate." after impaling the warden. There was no smart way to do this. The fact that you as a staff member hold this opinion, and as one of the highest ranked staff members, is troubling to me. You can see the reason behind it? What's that supposed to mean? How can you even attempt to justify this behavior? It is in the same vein as vampires draining monkey people to spam bats and inflate their blood count, or cultists summoning Nar-Sie entirely using ghosts. It's ridiculous, it is powergaming, the entire point is to give yourself a supreme advantage over other players with zero interaction and zero roleplay, pretty much the same as eating SSDs. And, since we're on that point... This isn't a justification. I don't believe he was eating monkeys out of the goodness of his heart because he did not hesitate to death sting several people, so attempting to explain it as 'well at least he didn't eat actual people right guys' is so full of shit considering his behavior and his use of death sting. I don't even believe this argument should be considered; the problem is the changeling gamemode it self, which is not tooled for roleplay but is centered around killing as many people as you can until the station is a desolate wasteland, which is why the stings are costly, because they expect you to go after the entire station and eat them all. It is a gamemode inherited from light RP servers and it has very little contributing mechanics to roleplay. Did you even read the complaint, or are you cherry picking sentences? We were entirely prepared. He was in cuffs. Three people with lethal weapons were right there. And we did not shoot until he killed the warden. What you people seem to fail to understand is that Stamos, not only totally unfearing of lasers or being killed because lul regenerate I can't feel pain, right, the Thing didn't feel pain, that's why it screamed whenever set on fire, but he was completely subdued and there was no IC reason to believe he was any threat. Are you chastising us because we didn't metagame and assume he'd grow a tail and impale Meowy on it? You can't be prepared to fight a changeling without a sharp implement or a shotgun to take it's head off. They are literally invincible and there is no way to stop the random death stings. So I guess I'm sorry I didn't metagame and run to saw off his head.

Unless the farm is in the North Pole it really wouldn't take three years of journeying to discover a city. A couple months at most.

Lethal force was used on Stamos after he grew an arm and impaled the warden to death. We didn't instigate shit. We responded to a killer shapeshifting maniac with laser blasts after he had already killed someone. My problem arises that, if you can just eat monkey people, why can't you eat SSDs? Messing with SSDs is not allowed because it's unsportsmanlike, there's no challenge, it's not fair to the player to wake up stuffed in some corner of maintenance without a care. And yet, just grinding out monkeys like a factory is perfectly okay why...? 'Add to the round' my ass. There's no challenge here either. Half of the shit that happened wouldn't have, IE security being killed by an overpowered instakill mechanic, if Stamos hadn't fire extinguisher-monkeycube'd his way to victory. Death sting is supposed to be a late game tool for changelings, not something you get in the first ten minutes of the round. Allowing changelings to just absorb monkeys to get all the powers is the epitome of powergaming as far as I'm concerned. Do they eat monkeys for roleplay? No, they do it to unlock powers so they can have an even bigger advantage over every else. That is the literal definition of powergaming, and the pathetic justification of 'add to the round' is so flimsy because more than half of the changeling abilities exist to help them eat people, so I fail to see how annoying, abusable stings like transform, hallucination, and instakill add anything. You want to know how they're used? We catch a changeling and then he transform stings anyone who gets close to him and their round is forever ruined because now they're entirely someone else with literally no way to reverse it, and that's if you're lucky. Spam hallucination stings and instakill stings too, because why not. They aren't used to 'add' to the round, they are used to inflict grief upon other players and have not been legitimately obtained. Monkey eating needs to be something punishment worthy, as it is powergaming.

I'd also like to state he used death stings on two people to my knowledge, which is the most difficult changeling power to acquire and basically something you cannot mitigate.