Jamini

And as I replied, admins who are playing should not be aghosted for upwards of fifteen minutes.(and more realistically, fourty-five.) People with bad connections have a good fifteen minutes to fix their connections or rejoin, and can freely rejoin as their original character after half an hour. Cryo could also simply be changed to give someone a free respawn as soon as their original character is despawned. I'm saying it's an unneeded and poorly-considered rule, and it leads directly to situations like this. If the timer on cryo is too short just extend it to half an hour. The whole point of cryo is to stop manifest clutter and free up vital job slots. Why not let the game mechanics do their job here? It makes no sense and just leads to people SSDing in the dorms/security lobby and taking up roles that someone else could be playing.

Five seconds is a VERY long time in a fight. Security is not and should not be the answer for every antagonist ever. Especially when it is a SOLE antagonist game-type. If someone is alone against the entire station, they need ridiculous power combos to even stand a chance when (not if, when) security decides to try and gank their ass. Did I say gank? Yes. I did. Our security force is leagues gankier than almost all antagonists that I've seen. It is disgusting the shit that security players get away with. If you want to nerf wizards, nerf their tools that are unfair towards the target. Soulstones, staff of change, el Nieath (which was nerfed) etc. Don't go nerfing their primary defensive ability because you, as security, don't want to be in danger when fighting what is supposed to be a highly dangerous and unpredictable foe.

Oppose this on the sheer fact that this suggestion would make security even more likely to try and rambo off antagonists. Bum-rushing a wizard should be stupidly dangerous and only done if the wizard in question is indisputably hostile. It shoud not be: "Stun once. Security wins. GGNORE" Killing a wizard should be about finesse. Not brute force.

Frankly, having to ask to cryo someone really defeats the purpose of the fifteen minute cooldown timer on cryo. If someone isn't coming back in fifteen minutes from ghosting or logging, chances are they aren't coming back. I see no reason why SSD players shouldn't be put into cryo as soon as it's apparent they aren't coming back.

1. He tried to escape when he was basically told he was going to get killed (More specifically, asked if he wanted to be killed rather than turned into a test subject, but I had Nasir panic instead) Mind, there was no feasible way for him to leave the execution chamber where he was being held. 2. The HOS left and was not in any way the one who removed the straightjacket. Which in and of itself was 100% needless. It was an escalation of force when there wasn't even any resistance to begin with. 3. Reporting him a "shapeshifting alien" in and of itself was EXTREMELY META. He had no proof of such a thing, except an entirely different crewmember doing entirely different things. As far as I know, he knew the following during the report. -Stamos was able to, somehow, turn his arm into a weapon. -People around Nasir were shapeshifting, including Dalton (after stunning Nasir while the latter was literally laying on the ground) -Nasir himself was screaming in pain and shapeshifting. There was really nothing linking the two, and Nasir was not resisting up until the point where Dalton basically said "I want to kill you rather than turn you over to science."

BYOND Key: (This is your Byond Login/Ckey) Jamini Player Byond Key: Valkrae Reason for complaint: EXTREME metagaming, Excessive antag hunting, Completely killing a round, Playing a HOS who should by all means not be a HOS Approximate Date/Time: 3/29/2015, 8:20 Round still in progress at time of report. Dalton Did the following, as HOS, during a changeling round. 1. Heavily metagamed a transformation sting, attempting to handcuff an entire hallway of non-resisting crew-members for being nearby at all. 2. Charged into security, ignoring all medical and injury RP on an antagonist, to take them to the brig. Immediately permabrigged them on charges of 'transforming others' without proof of any form. Immediately killing any and all roleplay that was taking place in medical at the time. 3. Executed said prisoner, against orders, while they were helpless and still not resisting. 4. Proceeded, after the ling regenerated, to refuse any and all RP. Forcing the prisoner (still not resisting in any way) into a bag. Heavily metagaming ling powers to put them into xenobiology. 5. Essentially left the round antagonist in a straightjacket, in a xenobiology cell, alone. This is just a small, small part of the metagamy, antagonist-hunting actions of this head of security. I see no reason why a head of security for NT would act in a manner so unbecoming, and their actions pretty much single-handedly killed most of the round progression. A head of security violating orders to THAT degree, and acting in such an EXTREME antagonist-hunting manner against a mostly peaceful antagonist in such a round destructive way... It simply screams a play to win attitude. At no point were any of these actions justifiable ICly, nor are they good for the health of the server. I cannot express more greatly my disgust that this character, and this player, took.

So! For a few months now baystation has had a few chemistry QoL tweaks that I would like to port for us. Namely 1. All chemicals have a hexadecimal color 2. Most reagent containers (bottles, beakers, syringes) show the color of the chemicals contained within. 3. Mild buff to beakers and bottles. Beakers/Bottles hold 60u, large beakers hold 120u. I'd like to know how all of you feel about this, and what parts of this port we do and don't want, if any. As with all of my suggestions, I'll happily code/port it myself if it has enough support. Thanks!

~@WireProphet He is alive.

Event Conclusion

It gives you a notable advantage in-game. Having a bottle of alcohol smashed over your head transfers the reagents into the mob hit. This can result in people becoming hilariously drunk and EXTREMELY un-robust. Being able to withstand a bit of that would give someone a pretty major advantage in a drunken bar fight.

It's a clear example of this idea being used and tested elsewhere, and them having shown that it doesn't work in any way like the parties suggesting said idea think. The tests there showed significant abuse and problems with this idea, and again it was one of the fastest-reverted changes I had ever seen. Our game is not dissimilar enough to ignore that. Both are Heavy RP (Not light. B12 is a HRP server). Both have similar rule sets. Both have not-dissimilar player-bases. Ignoring previously collected data when considering a change is a folly, even if the situation and environment is not exactly the same. By all means try it, but do not be surprised if the number of incident reports and complaint threads triples in a night regarding them. Ballistics as standard issue, even weak ones, have caused significant problems when they have been tested elsewhere. I do not see Aurora having any different of an experience with them at all.

I also got a quick quote from Yinadele, a regular security player and ex-admin from baystation from the time when this was implemented. They honestly can express things better than I ever could.

What people thought would happen on Bay: 1. Officers will think before going into a conflict 2. Violent conflict will lessen 3. People will stop being shitlers and breaking minor regs, because they might get shot 4. Security would talk things out over using a gun 5. Things will improve overall What actually happened: 1. Officers used them just like tasers. Experienced, good officers. Sending tons of people to medical for breaking minor regulations. 2. Antagonists became SIGNIFICANTLY more violent, as they were fully aware that security would need to lethal them and that they'd get shot if caught. The amount of outright murders went through the roof. 3. The randoms being shits were still shits. 4. Medical was FLOODED with broken bones and stuck-in bullets. Literally flooded. 5. Security became even MORE hated, as they tended to use said non-lethal gun to resolve fights. 6. Antagonists who were caught were more often than not outright killed. Sometimes by accident. 7. It was reverted after about five rounds of testing. Don't get me wrong, I was tentatively in support of this idea on bay too. What I saw was THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what people thought would happen, happening. It doesn't work. LtL ballistics were a horrible, universal failure there. I do not see in any way how things will be BETTER here with them. At all.

The playerbase is by no means different enough here to warrant this change. This is a bad idea and should not be implemented. This will not result in a major change to how security operates, nor will it promote more interesting or useful RP.

Mark my words, you will regret endorsing this idea. It's been done. It was horrible. Doing it here will be no different. I cannot give enough: No, this is a bad idea.

This was trialed on bay, and immediately found to make security about ten times worse than they were with nonlethals. They've, to my knowledge, trialed it about three times and found EACH time that ballistics in no way, shape, or form made security any less rambo or more "thinking". No. This is a bad idea. No. No. No.

It's really not even a gank voltage. There are far, far more efficient ways that the AI could have gone about killing and harming people from what evidence being posted. 1. It left comms up, and indeed was talking to the crew. 2. It clearly had an agenda, and wasn't playing to "win" but rather involving the crew in its antagonist activities. 3. it used door shocking and local syphons instead of the myriad of other, far more effective, tools at its disposals. (Plasma, nitrus, door crushes, exploding consoles... I can go on?) 4. As far as I can tell, very few people actually died and everyone involved was able to RP out the situation. I don't see how that equates to gank at all? It may have moved fast and started stronger than some, and it may have done as such during a low population round, but I don't see this as necessarily a bad thing. Certainly no worse than a combat-oriented wizard hunting for people to soul shard. I don't feel this is worthy of a complaint.

Uh... no offense but... Isn't this a case of an "Antagonist being an Antagonist?" Like... it may not have been particularly sportsmanlike, but it seemed like rather than playing to win he was simply playing a malfunctioning AI as just that: A malfunctioning AI. Instead of going the easy route of quietly hacking the station and setting it to explode, he did something that involved the majority of the (admittedly tiny) crew? I just don't really see a basis for complaint here, I guess?

I'm going to say one thing here, then move on. Aside from stating that I agree wholeheartedly with Boka on this. A lot of Aurora players, not all but a significant percentage, generally have a single character and stick to a single department. Specifically in the two departments that receive the most complaints. Skull mentioned to me fairly recently, before this shitstorm (which I'll be honest, is just as much my fault as anyone else's) that I focus very heavily into one department. Likewise that I do not, or did not, play in the department where the majority of my complaints were and are. He brought up that, at least by appearances, that I lacked perspective on the matter. Regardless of how accurate that statement was, it can be applied to a goodly number of people on the server. For the most part we don't move around or try new things. For a few reasons! 1. Making a new character is hard! Very hard! Some people, like Meowy, are good at it. Others aren't! 2. Justifying a character changing departments is virtually impossible due to the way we handle IC skills, certificates, requirements, and degrees. 3. Some departments can feel very hostile to attempt to join as a newcomer. Medical and Engineering are particularly bad in this regard. However, I will say that departmental cliquishness on Aurora extends to a meta level that is extremely distressing. Personally, I do feel cliques are a good, human thing. However, when they extend to the point where you are unable, unwilling, or incapable of putting your feet in the other person's shoes it becomes a serious problem. If we want to cut down on forum bickering, we all need to step up and move outside our comfort zone. I strongly, strongly suggest that everyone move away from what is comfortable. Make a new character and try a department that you dislike or feel is being handled poorly. Perhaps your ideals or goals are right, perhaps your complaints are genuinely unfounded... the only real way to know is to step out on a limb and try. Perspective is important. Did making a security character change my opinion on the department or individuals? Yes, and no. Fundamentally my opinion is unchanged. However I have gotten to see thought processes and the side of certain interactions that explain why some members of security are the way they are. Just as playing medical helped me understand why my own actions towards doctors were unwarrented when I first did so. Playing as a geneticist helped me understand WHY so many people have trouble with explaining CMD and not self-testing powers, and playing as a scientist helped me understand why so many of them break regulations to avoid getting bored out of their minds. Walk a mile in another person's shoes. It can show you things you might not expect.

Jade was in a locker being let out, and the situation was completely under control. There wasn't any fighting or situation going on. Nat had explicitly asked for nobody else to come to avoid escalating the situation further. Instead, security responded in force and turned a peaceful situation into a full-blown altercation. There was not any risk of a dangerous situation at all at any point, and I made that abundantly clear. Honestly, It bad policy to butt into a situation that doesn't warrant an officer, much less two or three. If there had actually been any indication of violence I might have agreed with it, but all it did was add unnecessary stress and complication to an already messy and busy situation. Really, if an officer doesn't want backup you shouldn't be forcing yourself on to them.

... I really want to try that, tool. Yes. This needs to be a thing. So I can have my ops bully the captain.

Just last night Bryce (he was an assistant at the time) started causing shit with Travis in the medical lobby. The officer who responded (Jed Rathel, not Jade, or something like that) basically immediately took Bryce's side and tried to force both participants to apologize for past miss-deeds. When Travis refused (with honestly, good reason. Considering he had indeed been fairly severely beaten by Bryce in the past) he was peppersprayed and immediately handcuffed, this continued until, thankfully, the captain stopped it. I've aired previously some complaints against regarding Avery Dawkins and being rediculously disrespectful towards Khayyam, when the latter was a sole head of staff and trying to get information regarding an event that might have required an alert elevation. We've since come to an agreement on the matter, but the issue that it happened at all? Troublesome. During the recent large altercation between Nasir and Jade, I've had Lily respond to a call that was in the process of being handled and was told as such, unnecessarily escalating the conflict. Mind, there was plenty else going on, but rushing over there when he co-worker is telling her that nobody is hurt and that it's being resolved? Problematic. I've been a deliberately shitty HOP, and had to deal with Centurion/Ohm/A cadet talking about said prisoner's genitals and threatening to beat them for simply talking during an event round. I've witnessed a chef threw a single floor tile (and immediately stopped afterwards) be given the full-on "ON THE FLOOR" scream with an aimed taser and thrown in the brig with nary a word. Mind they were a baldie, so RP isn't necessarily expected, but nevertheless it fits the same modus operati of my complaints. Or should I go into the past where S'id put Tal into a cell for thirty minutes over a vandalism charge? A charge that Sairis has requested, then been outraged at when she realized exactly how long her apprentice was put in the brig for? I'm not trying to be a ass here, but even good security here can and do make mistakes and can show some pretty severe errors in judgement. Those little incidents really do add up over time, and it can really sour the image of the department. Do I expect security to be the best of the best, uber-polite officer yes-sir's? No. But a little (or even a lot) of effort put towards improving security's image would go a very, very long way.

I really don't know if this needs its own thread. I'd be honestly for just having all weapons in lockboxes locked to RD access. If a RD is abusing their privilege of weapon-making and distribution, a very quick talking-too or white-list removal can solve it.

I can agree with that. Engineering - I uh... can't actually really recall the last time I've seen a release. I've only seen like, one, in the last month or so I've been here. Plasma leaks? Bias here, personally, but I'm pretty quick to clean those up myself. As are most regular engineers. The only time I've seen a serious fire that didn't result in a near-instant ban for the person involved was one that I set accidentally while doing the deathtrap event... which was 100% noncanon. (and I DID get yelled at for it by the captain at the time, as it caused a death. Plus everyone got pay cuts.) People tend to forget that without working engineers you have no power. Without working engineers a breach never goes away. Without working engineers the station as a whole is much, much more lethal. It is the only department that has a 100% mandatory minimum 15 minute startup procedure, in addition to getting equipped and organizing their stuff. During a busy shift, it's pretty common for engineering to have no breaks or time to passively roleplay at all. This can happen even during extended if the RNG decides to roll a 7 biohazard or meteor collision. The sign that engineering is doing their job is that everything is running smoothly with the station. People often forget that, and it's very hard to appreciate that. Science - Last time a regular blew up part of the toxins lab/themselves, I put up an incident report on them and they were made into a MMI-mech for the round (It was an IPC). A certain telescientist also has a complaint and incident report on him currently. Let's not count the amount of times science gets yelled at for not properly announcing bomb tests. Medical - I'll agree, patients dying in medical is a very real issue. It's probably my biggest gripe with the department is the sheer amount of negligence and incompetence that can be seen there. Doubly so when I see regulars complaining that medical is too well cross trained when people are still dying of negligence or incompetence. I will point out we had a situation of this just yesterday with an understaffed medbay. (An intern failed to use dialysis, as she didn't know how, while I was busy OOCly trying to teach our chemist how to use the chemmaster). Cargo - Five minutes for the package, plus anything else they have to do before delivery. Not including the fact that I may be busy fixing things while I wait on my orders. I guess it's just different expectations. I personally don't go to cargo if I need something /now/. Hacking and Wire codes - Engineers are honestly expected to know the wire codes and how to hack doors. It is literally their most common part of the job, and explicitly in the job description for electricians. Quite frankly, any engineer that doesn't know how to hack should seriously reconsider their job choice for that character. It's not 'breaking into the armory to have a laser rifle' or 'throwing flashbangs for no reason'. It's on the level of 'making sure you have handcuffs, pepperspray, a flash, your taser, and your baton charged and on your belt.' Hell. I explicitly order someone to get the codes for each wire, write them down, and distribute them to every member of engineering as chief engineer. Sometimes I will include cross-trained atmospheric techs. It is that important of a tool for the department. Honestly? Security rarely treat me like shit. Why? I'm generally respectful to them, or try to be unless they are trying to act above their station. That said, I've seen plenty of security members go well out of their way to be dicks to others and get away with it for longer than they should have. That's an issue. When an officer, for example, thinks they can pepperspray and arrest someone for "Not saying sorry" for an event that didn't even occur on shift? That's an issue, and it needs to be curbed by sec and command ICly. (Thankfully, that situation WAS. However it could easily have not been if it hadn't occurred in medbay, in front of the HOP and Captain, AND I hadn't explicitly complained.)

A random miner from an independant station, who was pretty much confirmed Not to be the person the ops claimed she was by a relative. Like... even the one person I see protest (Carson) seemed to agree that there wasn't any way we could help Not-Rasine. If given an opportunity we probably would have launched a rescue mission. (In fact, I did suggest a false trade using Clarke as Bait. Even if it didn't pan out.) but really there just wasn't any decent justification for the crew to give up their Captain for a random miner. Especially one that probably wasn't real at all. ANYWAY Let's get back on-topic please! Ideas to spice up Merc rounds! Gogo!