evandorf

How is that any different from simply breaking into science and chemistry yourself and making grenades the normal way?

These chemical grenades, will they do damage like a frag grenade? Because I use frag grenades on the regular for things other than EoR grief.

In your example, the person who was not involved and was killed by the crossfire would not be considered gank. If security escalates without first clearing civilians then security would not be doing their job properly. To go back to my previous post in this thread I understand that you think it happens a lot but, without specific examples or more people giving their feedback, simply stating this as fact undermines the ability of the thread to remain factual. EDITED for clarification.

I'd argue that shifting from the AMR to a more close range, high damaging weapon is taking a step backwards towards the .357. I also think that we need to clarify the definition of gank. In a firefight where rounds have been exchanged, or even a standoff where both sides are geard up you already have escalation. You're simply waiting for the spark to ignite. Gank is attacking someone who has no indication that anything dangerous or harmful is about to happen where no RP has been given beforehand.

I can agree with this stance in principle but I rarely see AMRs come into use. Maybe that's just my perspective and all the snipers come on in my off hours. The argument for removal seems to hinge on how common AMR ganking is. I think it would be useful if people responding to the suggestion could recount their own experiences. Burger obviously feels like it ruins many rounds but if the majority of players experience no outstanding issues then I would say its prohibitive cost and low ammunition are enough to keep it in check yet allow for people who want to use it for their gimmick.

What would you define as using an AMR maliciously? As long as sufficient RP and escalation is given it's use to kill someone is as valid as any other weapon.

I've used it in RP situations. Specifically Tokash, when he was an officer and traitorable used it to interrupt a hostage situation with @Rosetango. Plenty of leadup and headway was given so as not to be gank but it was a situation where my traitor security officer thought taking a shot at a hostage taker was better than bargaining. IMO, the main reason to not simply nerf weapons on all sides is because heavy weapons are supposed to be deterrents to people playing the hero and to give clear and present indicators that fear RP should come into play in a particular situation. If the sniper rifle can't backup the threat it presents then people will not take it seriously.

I have to agree with Kaed on this. Similarly to the TTV, the AMR has legitimate RP uses but is also very powerful. If it's being used inappropriately then the player should be reported but the simple fact that it allowed mercs to win a firefight isn't enough reason to alter or remove it.

I have to agree. I rarely see the gun bought let alone used effectively enough to be considered OP to the point of removal. -1

IMO, from a story and RP perspective, a mouse entering the kitchen nibbling on some food and getting killed by the chef is just as valid as the mouse entering the kitchen nibbling on some food and befriending the chef. They both tell a story. In a very tenuous and obscure way it's a scaled down version of peacetag vs antag; both are valid ways of playing and whichever you choose you should try not to get upset if you're the one that ends up dead.

You were aware of the rules that were broken and, given your apology and the amount of time that has passed, I am willing to lift the ban. The antag ban, however, was not applied by me and will remain in place until some more time has passed without any further escalation incidents. Then you can create another appeal so that @HouseOfSynth can review it.

I think this is understandable and I'll go ahead and lift the ban. In the future, if you hear the below sound and see red text in the chat it's a member of staff trying to reach you. adminhelp.ogg

@Juani2400 and I will be handling this one. Give us some time to look over all the information.

Alright, I think we can lift the ban but please change your character's name before you join again and read over the server rules if you haven't yet. https://aurorastation.org/rules.html

The main reason for the ban was not the naming problem but a lack of response from you when messaged. I messaged you almost immediately when you entered the round from cryo and sent you several followup messages. I didn't see you fall down or go SSD but received no response at all. Can you explain in more detail what happened? You're saying you had logged off immediately after joining and came back to a ban?

Reporting Personnel: Suvek Tokash Job Title of Reporting Personnel: Head of Security Game ID: bZo-asPl Personnel Involved: - Juan Siganto: Offender - Suvek Tokash: Offended Time of Incident: 01:40 Real Time: Approx 11:15 PM Central US Location of Incident: Head of Security Office Nature of Incident: [ ] - Workplace Hazard [ ] - Accident/Injury [ X ] - Destruction of Property [ ] - Neglect of Duty [ ] - Harassment [ ] - Assault [ X ] - Misconduct [ ] - Other _____ (Place an x in the box that applies. If other, replace line and specify.) Overview of the Incident: The shift began without Captain Siganto. Later after I had become injured due to the presence of a raiding party I returned to my office after leaving surgery. The Captain followed me inside and proceeded to wordlessly move to the wall and tear my flag of the Hegemony from it. Nothing was said. He did not state his displeasure that it was placed, did not ask it to be removed, simply destroyed it. I informed him that this would be reported. Did you report it to a Head of Department or IAA? If so, who?: It was not reported at the time due to a lack of an agent aboard and my dealing with higher priority issues involving the intruders. Actions taken: NA Additional Notes: This is unreasonable conduct becoming a Captain to destroy crew property without so much as a word, especially when the one involved is one of his heads of staff.

I think a likely outcome will be isolated departmental guards clamping down harder and faster than nornal due to their vulnerability.

@Zelmana I want to preface this by acknowledging that this will likely come across as condescending, but I hope that you take it with the intent it's given; to help come to a better understanding of each other. First, I think you can be very abrasive at times and that similar conduct which toes the line of acceptable on the forums and discord is what causes many of the issues we see. This is why we're saying that users need to act civilly. As Skull said, word policing isn't really a viable option but if the majority of people around you are saying that you're being a dick it might be time for some introspection and self-reflection.

Once turned though you have to deal with the hunger and possibly going into a frenzy. And requiring vamps to first drain their victim would help alleviate the blood cost.

As far as turning someone into a vamp, you could require them to first be drained before you give them vamp blood. Bring them to crit. This would allow people to succumb and simply not survive the process. Which, depending on your vamp lore, would make sense.

There's a difference between opting not to interact and throwing a tantrum. If I'm not feeling cult I'll usually just let them kill me. Sometimes I may let them know in looc that I don't want to be converted. There are also a lot of people who like to play simply to do their job or RP, research comes to mind. And I don't think it's unreasonable to allow for those players the ability to do what they enjoy. I'm completely OK with death being the alternative to conversion but we don't need to punish people who opt out.

I don't think everyone should be expected to interact with conversion antags, especially on secret where extended is an option.

Most of this discussion seems to assume we're dealing with lone antags. Antag teams would quickly roll an uncoordinated security (merc, raider, cult, rev). I would argue that sec doesn't need to be diluted but that antags need to cooperate more in order to counter them, but aside from some comments in aooc I hardly see traitors get encrypted keys, work with others, or try to communicate icly at all. You've said that sec isn't about winning and I would return by saying that neither is antag. If your gimmick doesn't come to fruition like you wanted then as long as you engaged with crew you still furthered a story even if it didn't go the way you wanted. I'm very wary about making changes to the station's entire personnel structure in unreasonable ways when there are other less intrusive options. By unreasonable I mean, for example, a lack of dedicated comms channel or the idea a departmental security guard would be expected to either arm or enlist civilians to deal with possible deadly threats.

I really do appreciate the offer and I don't want to seem ungrateful but I don't think a necklace would fit the character and I think there'd also be problems with security uniform regulations.

I've had a thought after my initial response and thought I'd see what you think of it. A full spear and a shark trophy together might seem a little too much and I know that you made an exception for the spear in regards to the weapon rule. Instead of a full spear on the wall, how about something smaller that wouldn't require a weapon exception? My initial thought was just the spearhead, suspended in a small stand which would sit on the desk. This way I would still have a piece of the spear and my family heirloom while also mixing it a bit with technology. It would better mirror Tokash's traditionalist personality mixed with the implant and working in a human-centric station. It would also be easier to steal, if antags looked at my exploitable info. The shark trophy would then, in my opinion, be less egregious. My primary concern would be undoing Alb's work on spriting the original spear and I would be willing to find or commission someone to get the new sprites myself, rather than add to the staff's workload.