evandorf

I know this would be more involved than a simple remap but if people like it then it may be worth discussing how it could be implemented. What do people think of the xenobio lab being able to be jettisoned as a map entity? It would be disconnected from power and have no engines but thematically it could makes sense.

Would it be possible or wanted to add flavor text in character creation that shows up on medical scans? Things about your character that a scan would not mechanically show and may not be actionable aboard the ship but would be interesting or useful to transmit to medical personnel in a way that's more visible than them having to catch it in your medical files. For instance, I play a character missing an eye but I also know others that have defining physical traits like heavy scarring that you would think would show up on high-tech medical scanners. Maybe you use a cane because of an old wound that would show up as irregular on the scanner but not really something medical can fix. Maybe you had some disease like cancer that left telltale medical signs on your body. There's definitely a chance for people to make up ridiculous shit but it would be addressed the same way we currently deal with people creating heinous flavor text within the scope that already exists.

Robotics, did we just become best friends?

Yes, Garn or whoever eventually rules on this can pull the logs for the round. I believe the game ID was cmM-cIXz. To be fair, the largest deciding factor in re-applying the ban was your previous note/warning/ban history. While the round may not have been the most egregious violation of the antag rules we have an escalation of punishment that we follow. I'll say now that I'm not averse to lifting the ban after some time has passed but in the interim I would encourage you to continue playing sec, shaping the interaction from the other side and growing more comfortable with staying in a confrontation without controlling it.

Yes, to my understanding you were seen on the bridge which initially alerted command and sec to your presence. Then you were seen in deck three sec maintenance where an attempt was made to communicate with you. An officer moved into the doorway to prevent it from closing and you interpreted this as a hostile move and shut the door on them. At this point security considered you fully hostile and gave chase. Then when they caught up to you and Strong near the lobby there was an issue with the way security engaged Strong, which was handled in a separate ticket, and eventually you engaged security in combat with the esword. Through all this I didn't speak with anyone who could confirm that you had made an attempt to communicate or provide RP in any meaningful way. People seeing you does not count as meaningful RP, especially in the context of what is required before lethal escalation. At some point you should have realized that the plans you made didn't pan out, the round had become a silent chase, and something should have changed. I think you should also re-evaluate your stance that being caught equates to the end of your round. There is a lot of RP to be had after capture and even if that's not appealing, you can make preparations to have contingencies after arrest. The compressed matter implant is a great way to ensure you can break out if caught for instance, but more importantly this idea that the round is over when you are captured restricts you to a style of play that focuses only on your success. It doesn't let you trust the other players for fear that they will trample your gimmick and it makes you feel the need to immediately fall back on force and lethal threats when your plans break down. It doesn't allow you to branch out and try gimmicks that can be fun beyond you accomplishing your personal objectives which in the end defeats the point of being an antag which is to drive a story for the server at large.

The situation with Strong was ahelped in a separate ticket by a different mod but IIRC it was an issue where the intent was misunderstood. That behavior should not be assumed to be normal. Security will often react with equal force; if you talk they will talk, if you shoot they will shoot. I've played a lot of antag and a lot of security and there is a moment where you can feel the gears shifting from calm to chaos and vice versa. Both sides have to be willing to put trust in the other players and if there is a violation of that trust you should ahelp.

From a moderation standpoint, what you intended to do, meant to do, would have done but for the circumstances doesn't factor into the equation. What matters is what actually happened and things going wrong does not remove the requirement for RP before escalation. Things going wrong will make your life more difficult as antag because security is operating from a place of authority and it is their job to enforce regulations. I don't expect you to immediately comply with security and give up when caught but at the bare minimum get out a pithy comment, make a speech, give a monologue, do something. Most sec mains will let you talk and make a scene out of it.

The ban was applied after a ticket came in some time after the altercations with security and unfortunately you had already DC'ed at this point. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that sufficient time had passed between the fight and the time you disconnected but you also have a well documented history of logging if you are caught or about to be incapacitated as antag. I spoke with one of the officers and I spoke with Strong who gave me a description of the events. Security had been armed to deal with an intruder who tried to holdup the bridge and unfortunately for you and Strong they found you preparing in the maintenance tunnel near deck three security. I spoke with the Interim HoS at the time and they stated that nothing was said on your part and when they tried to speak with you you bolted and shocked the airlock, crushing one of them and then ran off the other direction. Security caught up with you later in the hall and downed you after you de-limbed one or more officers in the fight. At this point it sounded like security already knew of you, there had been escalation (and assumed RP), and I just needed to find where the RP took place but when I spoke with the XO who was present at the time you attempted to take the bridge I was told that no attempts at communication were made there either. I made more than a fair attempt to try and find someone that you interacted with but the response I got was always the same.

Please put the safe back in the vault. I'd love to crack it again.

I have to disagree with this. I think issues of race, whitelists, and abuse of position are secondary and could be worked around, however our current system of "all heads as equal" and creating an acting captain when needed is much more flexible than a strict chain of command.

How do hardsuits figure into your system?

I never assume notes are perfectly accurate. They are very subjective because it is rare that you can accurately gauge intent even if you are actively observing a situation. Notes are not meant to be objective proof but are mainly used to show trends in player behavior. For example, if I am trying to determine the best action to take because someone was killed with little to no RP the exact details of previous incidents matter very little compared to their frequency and how many different members of staff have had to speak to them regarding the issue. I believe making notes easily accessible, and therefore increasing the likelihood of having them be subject to complaint, is flawed because of their subjective nature and narrow focus. It’s better to leave complaints to warnings and bans as they usually occur after some amount of collective scrutiny and the pattern of the behavior proves the intent.

I don’t believe this is necessary. Garn explained the existing system above and, assuming staff are following proper escalation, if you have a warning you can assume that either the act was egregious enough for an immediate warning or sufficient notes exist to warrant it. Warnings are visible to players and if you think a staff member is not following proper escalation then that would be a staff complaint. The staff member attached to the complaint reviews the notes and history and gives a second opinion/makes a determination on if it was warranted. Many of the benefits you list are to provide players who have anxiety contacting staff with an alternative but if someone is incapable of engaging with staff to simply ask for their notes I don’t see them going through the complaints process multiple times to correct perceived errors or misunderstandings. More likely this will be used by less anxious players for frivolous and/or pedantic complaints to change the wording of notes at best. At worst I can see notes, which are often subjective, being used in bad faith as a tool to overturn decisions or admin-shop for more favorable outcomes.

I agree that adding a new dynamic will upset and frustrate those who are already comfortable in established routine but it’s a necessary evil for any large change until the new becomes the norm. I think, as far as pie-in-the-sky longterm goals go, we would be best served making medical treatment something that can be done from multiple areas with low transit time. Sending patient vitals/initial scan data over the network to the machinist for example. Having the machinist be able to respond and give feedback or print a compatible limb/organ. Being able to link your PDA to a roller bed monitor so that you are alerted to a patient’s state degrading, ect. QoL enhancements that make it to where deck 3 medical can be used for its intended purpose and supplementary roles like the mechanist can be more easily integrated into the process.

I might be in the minority but I don’t think the focus of medical should be efficiency, where everyone can be treated quickly and completely. I think extended treatment for niche cases should be part of the experience and when players give their characters synthetic organs they are opting-in to having a different experience than normal. My personal medical competency is somewhat low but my understanding is that unless the organ is destroyed or extremely damaged a good doctor can still mitigate and manage the side effects and a skilled doctor would be able to get close to a correct diagnosis using the context of the patient’s condition, patient medical files, and their own experience.

I’m not sure if artificial organ damage shows up on the full body scanners in medical but if it does I would argue it should be removed. The machinist should be consulted more by medical and making damaged synthetic organ scans their sole domain could add some cooperation.

I agree, I see a machinist as medical for synthetics and should not be opening surgical sites on organic tissue. It would be interesting if cybernetics/prosthetics had deeper mechanics that required diagnostics the machinist could provide but if it’s a replacement organ that requires an organic surgery site you should be a consultant and provide scanning services or replacements as necessary.

I feel like we should endeavor to keep evil or unsavory aspects of the lore intact while making it clear that those qualities are not tolerated ICly within the crew or OOCly among the players. Fascism deserves active ridicule. Using softer language shows an unwillingness to face it.

My personal opinion on surgery in the Machinist workshop is that it’s not sterile enough for organic surgery. It’s too open, both in terms of the mixing of air from public hallways to the lack of privacy (the new room may have tint control, I’m not sure), it doesn’t have much in the way of patient accommodation, it’s just a very dirty place to have surgery done. I would feel like I was getting my appendix out in a garage. Now, IPC surgery? No problem. Borging? Cleanliness and comfort is probably not the primary concern.

Regarding the use of the gloves specifically, wouldn’t you be able to achieve the same results with existing loadout items? You could customize the name and description of a pair of gloves and speak in basic while wearing them and only speak in sign language if you had the gloves removed.

Sorry for the delay. I just reviewed your notes and refreshed my memory on the circumstances of the ban. You're new to the server and haven't gotten off on the best foot but if you're sincere about abiding by the server rules then I'm more than willing to give you a second chance. Unbanned.

Before I go into any details I wanted to clarify the purpose of this complaint. Is this an unban request? If so there is a separate section of the forum for that but this temporary ban will expire in a day regardless. If this was created to hash out the details of the ban then I can give you the context from my perspective. This ban was handed out about a week ago on the 7th. I don't have the full ticket details at the moment but I can ask an admin to pull the logs if necessary. Now, as far as the details I can remember. Someone ahelped and stated that you had ghosted after being detained by security. Upon inspection I found you DC'ed in a cell with security looking on. Looking at your previous notes I see the following relevant entries. There are several notes regarding other antag behavior but I am paring it down to behavior adjacent to this complaint. 10/15/2022 - "Was caught as an antag and then disconnected. Said he had to go and asked for admins to kill him because he didn't want to suddenly SSD but I'm leaving this here in the event it becomes an issue." 10/18/2022 - "Actually ghosted in the middle of processing this time. Told not to do it again, or he'll face an antag ban." 10/19/2022 - "Spoken to about ghosting while in processing again. Didn't give warning or ban since admittedly, it was at the very end of the round. Keep an eye out for him salting about being arrested in LOOC and for him ghosting. If does so again, escalate." 10/20/2022 - "Banned from Antagonist - Spamming technomancer abilities shortly after being told not to, seemingly out of frustration. They've been getting frustrated a lot as an antagonist, probably their last chance." From what I could see at the time this appears to have been a relatively short tempban. This was not for DCing when detained but is relevant for escalation regarding antag issues as a whole. 11/07/2022 - The ban I applied which is the subject of this complaint. After seeing the notes there was some deliberation as to whether this should be a permanent antag ban or a temporary one and I eventually chose the latter but noted in the warning that a permanent ban would be the next escalation. This is what I remember from my end but if I'm missing something or you have questions please let me know and I'll try to answer what I can.

Coding a whitelist takes much less time than reworking something. It already exists in git for many other roles so you’re not having to create it from nothing. As far as work for admins/moderation goes it would depend on interest. Either borgs are niche roles for a handful of players and the administration of them will be low or many more people are interested in which case removing them as a role would be negatively impacting a large number of players and driving them away.

This also would tie into Cybs’ suggestion of moving the roboticist more into research and away from ops.

I still think it would be interesting to move borgs into research completely and have the RD or other staff be able to loan them out to other departments as needed. The AI is already housed in research so it would make thematic sense.