Random Asteroid "Dungeons"

[BurgerBB]

Asteroid Dungeons; mini areas on the outskirts of the asteroid that miners/explorers/whatever can encounter. They're basically pre-made small maps that are then loaded into the existing asteroid map that contain treasures and usually hostile mobs guarding them. Everything works and is coded. The only things that need to be made are the areas themselves and other special details, such as:

- The type of loot found. What should the miners be able to find? Guns? Swords? Cash? Magical artifacts? Traitor items?

- The type of hostile mobs guarding said loot, if any. Should it be heavily guarded based on the loot inside the "dungeon", or should the difficulty only be limited to the luck of finding it?

- The limit of the type of areas found. Would it be appropriate for cult ruins to exist? Should a secret vault be located somewhere? Should a secret syndicate headquarters be located somewhere? Should it only be limited to carp/cavern nests?

- Whether or not traitors/crew are informed of the area. Should traitors be able to buy a GPS that shows the location of crashed syndicate ships or supply drops? Should command have a top-secret memo describing the location of a potentially crashed ship or a vault that needs investigating?

I'll be blunt and say that in respect to what I can and cannot make, I'm only interested in hearing from the developers. Your opinions on how we shouldn't have a cult ruin are appreciated but chances are I won't follow through with that suggestion if indeed I am allowed to put in.

[DronzTheWolf]

I enjoy the concept, but I'm not a developer. I'd love for crashed ships and the like to be on the asteroid, bonus points if it's Vox smuggler's stuff or malfunctioned Icarus supply pods, with anything from extra rations to ERT uniforms inside.

[BurgerBB]

I enjoy the concept, but I'm not a developer. I'd love for crashed ships and the like to be on the asteroid, bonus points if it's Vox smuggler's stuff or malfunctioned Icarus supply pods, with anything from extra rations to ERT uniforms inside.

 

There is a crashed syndie ship that exists that I have made. It contains a deathsquad ripley, a random energy weapon, and a corpse of a syndicate operative. The ripley is locked behind reinforced wall and a bolted vault door, and to get to the corpse and energy weapon, you'll need to cross an openspace gap. I might add one or two carp somewhere, not sure.

[DronzTheWolf]

The ripley is locked behind reinforced wall and a bolted vault door, and to get to the corpse and energy weapon, you'll need to cross an openspace gap.

 

So grab some rods before exploring like a sane miner? Never!

[Bygonehero]

I have some sprites of an ancient clown themed Egyptian temple. I could try to make them less meme if you wanted a tileset for this

[BurgerBB]

An example of some areas I quickly made.

https://imgur.com/a/KwqRhvI

Note that this system is very modular; anyone can submit a map and have it loaded as a dungeon. Hopefully such small additions will inspire people to learn how to map.

[LanceLynxx]

I absolute love the idea. I always find myself enjoying discovery of new places. First time I went to Derelict, I had a blast. Couldn’t stop myself from exploring in like 10 rounds in a row.

Yes please!

[Bauser]

Isn't this going to incentivize people to go on wacky space adventures instead of doing their jobs? Miners are already bad enough at delivering materials to Research; do we need to give them even more of a reason to totally shrug off their literally sole job function? Even calling them 'dungeons' sets off alarms in my head, because it means it's going to be like a crawler mini-game that exists only for the purpose of completely removing a few people from the round everyone else is playing.

Now, for xenoarchs, okay. It's in their job description. But in your write-up, you clearly describe this as being for miners... You know, the ones with the weapons to defend themselves from the hostile mobs you describe? So that already warns me that the above wasn't a concern of yours.

Furthermore, your ideas for the rewards from these dungeons are... not great. Weapons and magic and traitor gear? In that case, then every miner is going to want to fuck off every round so they can play Dead Space for the chance to come back and continue ignoring their job so they can brag about the cool shit they found (at best) and try to find ways to valid with it when they come back (at worst), because they know they're going to lose it soon and have to fight for it all over again next round. Give them rewards that will encourage them to participate in the round. Give them artifacts to experiment on with scientists. Give them obscure reagents to play with chemists. Give them upgraded alien versions of their gear so they can keep doing what they're supposed do - and just feel cooler about it. You know... if this has to go in at all. Which I kind of hope it doesn't.

-1 unless we can propose a way to keep miners out of it

[Pacmandevil]

Miners are already bad enough at delivering materials to Research

 

Research is almost always both snobby, and annoying pieces of trash that people typically don't want to go out of their way to give resources to.

I haven't played in forever - but I doubt this has changed much. Perhaps if science was polite and nice to miners instead of the typical UNGA BUNGA GIB DIAMOND!!! BAD MINER!!!! Then you'd actually get something given to you.

Also: have you considered walking the 30 feet to ask the person at the cargo desk?

Back on topic.

The entirety of mining on the same asteroid kinda fucks any sense of believability for this - which would be my only possible argument against it. I still hold the viewpoint that mining makes no sense on the same location that the station is using as a foundation or whatever, but I understand why that is the case right now.

Otherwise, it seems like a fun Idea to make mining more than mindless rock shooting while people screech at you because they can't walk the literal 30 tiles to cargo.

[Kaed]

That being said, I kind of agree that the concept you're putting out creates situations where a miner can be blasting through rocks and suddenly find themselves being swarmed by murderfish, which they almost certainly can't escape or fight off effectively unless they've been pimping out their kinetic accelerator a whole lot. Even without the fish, you're just kind of creating this randomly determined spaces (and if you think 25% is a low chance, by the way, I think you have misunderstood how probability works, especially if there is more than 1-2 locations these can show up on in the map) where people can find loot of variable quality in usefulness ranging from 'gee, that's sure weird there is a wrench out here' to 'wow, a gun I can't use because I'm not an antag. Swell!'

Being killed suddenly because there were 6 carp on the other side of the wall is only fun in the sense of Dwarf Fortress Fun, and we don't generally tend to encourage Fun in this game.

And let's be clear here about something else. This doesn't actually benefit traitor miners in any reliable way. They have much better, more effective, and more fun ways of getting a weapon without wandering the asteroid aimlessly for half the round or more, hoping that a dungeon spawned, that they can find it, that they can survive it, AND that it has something that will be useful to them inside.

Because they can just buy a gun from their uplink instead and get started on something immediately, remember?

I think the idea of dungeons has merit though, all that being said, but it would need to be a much different implementation than random monster spawn rooms with random items in them. A set of more focused structures (buildings, ships, ruins, etc) with much smaller spawn chances, that has specific items in them that people can be excited to find, instead of large empty rooms to just sigh at and wander off because there's a pair of sunglasses and two wrenches on the floor of this room that had 5 carp in it they barely survived, because, lol, RNG strikes again!

Boring:

Urist McMiner: "Hey guys, there was a room with a bunch of carp and I almost died... I found a pair of goggles and a spear, though..."

Exciting:

Urist McMiner: "Woah... I just found like, a temple, and there's like weird floating red crystals and shit in here, get science on the line!"

Edit (Arrow768): Removed parts not contributing to the discussion

Edited June 12, 2018 by Guest

[BurgerBB]

Shaft mining is the most shafted job on the station. Their entire job is to provide materials and items to shitty science mains to have fun with, and funds for shitty sec mains to unga bunga shoot badguys with. It's depressing that people are suggesting that shafter miner's are supposed to be science's bitch and any sort of fun that miners have, regardless if it prevents them from not mining or not, deviates from that path. Virtually every other job on the station has some fun thing you can do that isn't it's core job.

Botany: Grow and sell drugs.

Chef: Make a shitload of truffles

Science: Perform inhumane experiments on crew.

Security: Brawl with cadets, validhunt antags.

Chemistry: Make crazy drugs.

Mining: MINE FOR ME SLAVE

With the custom kinetic accelerator update, science and mining will now have a mutual relationship. If science wants materials, they're going to have to provide for miners. If miners want equipment to explore these dungeons, they're going to have to provide science with materials. To suggest that miners won't do their job and go explore "dungeons" is a meme because they will not survive. Also, the more hostile dungeons are designed to be noticeable upon an onlooker. For example, many of the nests have human remains around them and is an obvious red flag for a miner to fuck off to another direction. The only time a miner would be fucked by a dungeon is if they fall from a z-level into a nest of space carp.

[Kaed]

Virtually every other job on the station has some fun thing you can do that isn't it's core job.

Botany: Grow and sell drugs.

Chef: Make a shitload of truffles

Science: Perform inhumane experiments on crew.

Security: Brawl with cadets, validhunt antags.

Chemistry: Make crazy drugs.

Mining: MINE FOR ME SLAVE

 

Every single one of those things except the last one are stuff you should not actually be doing during a typical shift and I would actively discourage the playerbase from doing, because they're nothing but shitty memes and pointless busywork for no other reason than self gratification. And that last one is just your coloured viewpoint on interdepartmental roles.

Adding 'wandering around on the asteroid looking for random loot' to miners behaviour options is not helpful and I don't know why you think it is a necessary addition.

[ferner]

Sounds like a fun feature, bringing some well needed spice to the geography of the asteroid once in a while, which otherwise is just enormous, empty and repetitive to work in.

[HunterRS]

If you are saying mining will tell science anything about these dungeons, I highly doubt that. We are already told minimal about what happens and the one time it happens is when some anomaly starts hurting miners, then we get involved, how do you know miners won't just horde everyone.

[BurgerBB]

Virtually every other job on the station has some fun thing you can do that isn't it's core job.

Botany: Grow and sell drugs.

Chef: Make a shitload of truffles

Science: Perform inhumane experiments on crew.

Security: Brawl with cadets, validhunt antags.

Chemistry: Make crazy drugs.

Mining: MINE FOR ME SLAVE

 

Every single one of those things except the last one are stuff you should not actually be doing during a typical shift and I would actively discourage the playerbase from doing, because they're nothing but shitty memes and pointless busywork for no other reason than self gratification. And that last one is just your coloured viewpoint on interdepartmental roles.

Adding 'wandering around on the asteroid looking for random loot' to miners behaviour options is not helpful and I don't know why you think it is a necessary addition.

 

Because that's not the addition. If you think the addition is simply "miners can now search for dungeons" then you're 2 + 2 = 3 wrong. I will repeat this: A miner who doesn't mine, and instead seeks out ruins, is a flippin fool because they will perish. They're going to need help from science in order to find/clear these ruins. I specifically designed the system to spawn a shitload of carp nests so that early game miners won't explore the area. I specifically designed the areas themselves to have a LOT of red flags so miners won't enter them.

[HunterRS]

Research is almost always both snobby, and annoying pieces of trash that people typically don't want to go out of their way to give resources to.

I haven't played in forever - but I doubt this has changed much. Perhaps if science was polite and nice to miners instead of the typical UNGA BUNGA GIB DIAMOND!!! BAD MINER!!!! Then you'd actually get something given to you.

Also: have you considered walking the 30 feet to ask the person at the cargo desk?

 

Have you even listened to science? As RD I yell at any of my science team if they get mad at cargo for minerals, and half the time we don't even ask, it's mostly HoPs/Captains asking.

[Kaed]

If you are saying mining will tell science anything about these dungeons, I highly doubt that. We are already told minimal about what happens and the one time it happens is when some anomaly starts hurting miners, then we get involved, how do you know miners won't just horde everyone.

 

It's up to players if they want to engage the rest of the station in what they find, but 'I found some random shit and fish in this cavern' is significantly less likely to engage anyone but medical than finding an ancient temple full of shit people can poke at.

 

Because that's not the addition. If you think the addition is simply "miners can now search for dungeons" then you're 2 + 2 = 3 wrong. I will repeat this: A miner who doesn't mine, and instead seeks out ruins, is a flippin fool because they will perish. They're going to need help from science in order to find/clear these ruins. I specifically designed the system to spawn a shitload of carp nests so that early game miners won't explore the area. I specifically designed the areas themselves to have a LOT of red flags so miners won't enter them.

 

Then it's not an activity they do on the side like all the other things you mentioned, it's just something that happens to them. Randomly. And if they're unfamiliar with your 'warning signs', they just die. Whee?

This is a very inconsistent argument, burger.

[HunterRS]

If you are saying mining will tell science anything about these dungeons, I highly doubt that. We are already told minimal about what happens and the one time it happens is when some anomaly starts hurting miners, then we get involved, how do you know miners won't just horde everyone.

 

It's up to players if they want to engage the rest of the station in what they find, but 'I found some random shit and fish in this cavern' is significantly less likely to engage anyone but medical than finding an ancient temple full of shit people can poke at.

 

 

And when the players don't interact with science because we are "Hostile" or "Rude" It really stops players from going in science, which is something I have tried to change.

[BurgerBB]

If you are saying mining will tell science anything about these dungeons, I highly doubt that. We are already told minimal about what happens and the one time it happens is when some anomaly starts hurting miners, then we get involved, how do you know miners won't just horde everyone.

 

Miners never hoard anomalies, I don't understand why you think this. Never while playing Marwani have I encountered a miner who hoarded an anomaly for themselves. It always goes to science. I'm honestly noticing a theme in this thread, and it's basically "miners are literally hitler."

Regardless, I'm going to straight up say it. Mining is under no obligation to report anomalies or ruins to scientists. Scientists are spoiled brats as it is, mining provides them with materials while science provides them with absolutely fucking nothing 99% of the time. I've mained quartermaster for several months, and I think out of the like 80 rounds I played, miners only received a mining drill or a plasma cutter about twice while science would constantly cry over common about materials like a spoiled child whose mother told them they can't go to mcdonalds every day.

[BurgerBB]

If you are saying mining will tell science anything about these dungeons, I highly doubt that. We are already told minimal about what happens and the one time it happens is when some anomaly starts hurting miners, then we get involved, how do you know miners won't just horde everyone.

 

It's up to players if they want to engage the rest of the station in what they find, but 'I found some random shit and fish in this cavern' is significantly less likely to engage anyone but medical than finding an ancient temple full of shit people can poke at.

 

Because that's not the addition. If you think the addition is simply "miners can now search for dungeons" then you're 2 + 2 = 3 wrong. I will repeat this: A miner who doesn't mine, and instead seeks out ruins, is a flippin fool because they will perish. They're going to need help from science in order to find/clear these ruins. I specifically designed the system to spawn a shitload of carp nests so that early game miners won't explore the area. I specifically designed the areas themselves to have a LOT of red flags so miners won't enter them.

 

Then it's not an activity they do on the side like all the other things you mentioned, it's just something that happens to them. Randomly. And if they're unfamiliar with your 'warning signs', they just die. Whee?

This is a very inconsistent argument, burger.

 

are you saying that if the miners encounter literal human remains on the mine they will get confused and walk towards the more frequent occurrences of human remains

because that's what you're saying right now

[HunterRS]

If you are saying mining will tell science anything about these dungeons, I highly doubt that. We are already told minimal about what happens and the one time it happens is when some anomaly starts hurting miners, then we get involved, how do you know miners won't just horde everyone.

 

Miners never hoard anomalies, I don't understand why you think this. Never while playing Marwani have I encountered a miner who hoarded an anomaly for themselves. It always goes to science. I'm honestly noticing a theme in this thread, and it's basically "miners are literally hitler."

Regardless, I'm going to straight up say it. Mining is under no obligation to report anomalies or ruins to scientists. Scientists are spoiled brats as it is, mining provides them with materials while science provides them with absolutely fucking nothing 99% of the time. I've mained quartermaster for several months, and I think out of the like 80 rounds I played, miners only received a mining drill or a plasma cutter about twice while science would constantly cry over common about materials like a spoiled child whose mother told them they can't go to mcdonalds every day.

 

Oh, is this more trash you are throwing at science? Because I have had with all the trash you throw at me and science. We can't read peoples mind on what they want, so if you what a plasma cutter, you have to ask, not just think we will give you one. I do my best to control the science department and make sure we don't force people, but when people like you are constantly giving us shit and insulting us OOC, we don't want to give you stuff.

[HunterRS]

I will also like to point out you are saying the 10%, the loud annoying science team, when the silent majority, the actual good players, who actually give stuff, case an point a few of the scientists I have trained who give stuff to security/engineer/medical.

[Kaed]

Miners never hoard anomalies, I don't understand why you think this. Never while playing Marwani have I encountered a miner who hoarded an anomaly for themselves. It always goes to science. I'm honestly noticing a theme in this thread, and it's basically "miners are literally hitler."

Regardless, I'm going to straight up say it. Mining is under no obligation to report anomalies or ruins to scientists. Scientists are spoiled brats as it is, mining provides them with materials while science provides them with absolutely fucking nothing 99% of the time. I've mained quartermaster for several months, and I think out of the like 80 rounds I played, miners only received a mining drill or a plasma cutter about twice while science would constantly cry over common about materials like a spoiled child whose mother told them they can't go to mcdonalds every day.

 

And when the players don't interact with science because we are "Hostile" or "Rude" It really stops players from going in science, which is something I have tried to change.

 

Significant bias detected. Bwoop bwoop bwoop.

As someone who engaged in neither department on a regular basis, this is what it looks like to me

Opinion: Scientists complain miners don't do anything.

Opinion: Miners complain scientists treat them like slaves.

Truth: Both departments need to stop acting like they have a right to exist separately from each other and the others are whiny babies for disagreeing.

Unfortunately, this becomes increasingly difficult when we keep adding features to mining to make them more and more self-sufficient i.e. the KA update. The power has slowly shifted in favor of mining slowly, and they choose to decide this means that science can shut the fuck up and wait for their special materials, we're big boys now, and don't need you. Meanwhile, science feels obligated to these special materials, and bitches at mining for not getting them fast enough.

 

Hey everyone this is pretty off topic for the thread and we need to get back to the discussion of the actual suggestion, which is about dungeons.

 

are you saying that if the miners encounter literal human remains on the mine they will get confused and walk towards the more frequent occurrences of human remains

because that's what you're saying right now

 

Yes, I am. The human remains will catch the interest of a novice player and lead them towards what seems like something interesting, whereupon they are murdered by carp.

StrawMan BurgerBB: But kaed that's their own fault for doing it

Strawman Kaed: We don't need game mechanics that punish people for ignorant curiosity.

[Ornias]

I'm honestly noticing a theme in this thread, and it's basically "miners are literally hitler."

Scientists are spoiled brats as it is,

[...]

science would constantly cry over common about materials like a spoiled child whose mother told them they can't go to mcdonalds every day.

you're literally doing the exact same thing with scientists

 

Regardless, I'm going to straight up say it. Mining is under no obligation to report anomalies or ruins to scientists. mining provides them with materials while science provides them with absolutely fucking nothing 99% of the time. I've mained quartermaster for several months, and I think out of the like 80 rounds I played, miners only received a mining drill or a plasma cutter about twice

It's a research station.

Mining is meant to support research.

Science is under no obligation to provide experimental tools to mining (though they often should), as they are just that, whereas mining literally does their job specifically to support science.

Mining is pretty much obligated to report anomalies and ruins because it's not their job. In the same way that medical is obligated to report guns they find rather than picking them up and stowing them away, or science is obligated to report dead bodies instead of just looting them.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Guest

[Yonnimer]

The idea sounds neat, something fun to do as mining, especially around the later parts of the shift. Although I can see a problem arising from miners rushing for these, right of the bat, ignoring their mining duties for the sweet loot within. And a concern with miners valid hunting with the gear they get. I'd suggest to have 80-90% of these be more like broken cargo shuttles full of crates you'd see cargo see, merchant ships with crates you'd see in the merchant outpost (the three that spawn), or vox ships with artifacts and vox items you'd see raiders with. I can't predict how it would go, though. I'd like to see it, just starting with a trial period to make sure it can be handled, especially with the summer tide coming in.