[2; Bin 25/JUN/2018] Strip IAA command level ID access

[Kaed]

I see a number of IAAs wandering into the command area, sitting in the bridge, making announcements using the command computers. At the end of the round, many they feel obligated to the right the shuttle to slip into the command bridge and take a seat, sometimes even when we have a full head roster and there isn't room. Sometimes, they even get mouthy with other command members. I feel that this is a sign that some of them are starting to get an inflated sense of their own importance and need to be reigned in a bit.

They aren't command members. There's no reason they should be allowed to walk in and out of the command and bridge areas at will, or utilized command-locked NT computer functions. There is no reason they shouldn't have to ask to come in like the other non-command crew members. Asked why they are on the bridge, their answer is inevitably just 'I have access so I'm allowed here'.

Their duties lie entirely outside the command sectors and with the crew at large, and I die a little inside every time I see them making a station-wide 'priority announcement' about their bureaucratic duties.

Now, this isn't to say they have no reason to have access to the command CHANNEL via radio. There are plenty of valid reasons for them to talk to heads directly.

So I'm gauging interest in this change, because I'd be happy to make the PR myself.

[Azande]

No. We fought very hard for this access. The bridge has consoles IAA need (security records) and serves as a nice place to hangout outside of their office. They are support structure that get paid the SAME amount as heads of staff. They are advisers to the Heads of Staff and Captain, and there is NO need to strip this access.

If a Captain does not want an IAA in the bridge, they can ask them to leave - it is the Captain's station.

The announcements that I do as IAA let everyone know I am on board and able to take complaints - many people know nothing about the IAA role, and this publicity is required so people know what we do, and that I'm actually on board.

This entire suggestion can fuck off, [mention]Synnono[/mention] plz help me here.

[Azande]

At the end of the round, many they feel obligated to the right the shuttle to slip into the command bridge and take a seat, sometimes even when we have a full head roster and there isn't room. Sometimes, they even get mouthy with other command members.

 

There is more than enough shuttle seats now, lol - petty reasoning anyways.

Secondly, IAA may get a bit lippy with Heads of Staff - 90% of the time this is because the Head is ignoring regulations or bypassing them in a way that is not allowed.

[Kaed]

No. We fought very hard for this access. The bridge has consoles IAA need (security records) and serves as a nice place to hangout outside of their office. They are support structure that get paid the SAME amount as heads of staff. They are advisers to the Heads of Staff and Captain, and there is NO need to strip this access.

If a Captain does not want an IAA in the bridge, they can ask them to leave - it is the Captain's station.

The announcements that I do as IAA let everyone know I am on board and able to take complaints - many people know nothing about the IAA role, and this publicity is required so people know what we do, and that I'm actually on board.

This entire suggestion can fuck off, @Synnono plz help me here.

 

Make a radio announcement. Walk to departments yourself and introduce yourself to them. Be a person, instead of relying on large messages to attract people to your dark office cave.

You don't need an announcement to be noticed.

You can advise the captain over the radio, or if you need to talk in person, ask to come in.

Learn to mingle with the crew instead of being feeling obligated to special privilege.

Also, 'worked hard to get this access'? Sorry, what? You were given it from the start and didn't have to work for anything.

It would also be nice to hear from some people who don't play IAAs and have an immediate prebuilt bias to keeping their lofty status quo.

[Azande]

Make a radio announcement. Walk to departments yourself and introduce yourself to them. Be a person, instead of relying on large messages to attract people to your dark office cave.

You don't need an announcement to be noticed.

You can advise the captain over the radio, or if you need to talk in person, ask to come in.

Learn to mingle with the crew instead of being feeling obligated to special privilege.

Also, 'worked hard to get this access'? Sorry, what? You were given it from the start and didn't have to work for anything.

It would also be nice to hear from some people who don't play IAAs and have an immediate prebuilt bias to keeping their lofty status quo.

 

First, I work very hard as IAA to interact with people - very very very hard, many people STILL do not even know CCIA exist, let alone IAA, or what either does.

Secondly, I did work hard for this access. I lobbied for two to three years for the Dev Team to give IAA command access and a command headset - before, they only had sec access. When we finally got extended access, it was a godsend. Don't tell me what I did and did NOT do, thank you very much

I also play a range of Heads of Staff that interact with IAAs, and I'm 100% with them having the access they do.

[Kaed]

First, I work very hard as IAA to interact with people - very very very hard, many people STILL do not even know CCIA exist, let alone IAA, or what either does.

Secondly, I did work hard for this access. I lobbied for two to three years for the Dev Team to give IAA command access and a command headset - before, they only had sec access. When we finally got extended access, it was a godsend. Don't tell me what I did and did NOT do, thank you very much

 

Clearly, someone needed to step up to the plate and lobby for an alternative viewpoint, then. Hello!

Anyway, I get it. You don't like it. Thoughts noted. I want to hear from other people than the exact person whose behaviour incited this thread, and there's no need for this to turn into a bickering contest between us.

[Synnono]

This was presented as a development suggestion and not a policy suggestion, so my input is a bit limited in regards to supporting or rejecting it. However, I don't see the mechanical benefit to removing this access.

The IAA office alone does not come with the access to security records IAAs should have access to, and I don't have an issue at all with agents using the station announcement console like a Head of Staff can. They may provide a service to the crew and that is a valid way to project it. If a Captain would rather they not use it, they have the authority to order them not to.

Additionally, agents are authorized to use the emergency broadcast system to contact Central Command, and the bridge is really the only place they can go to operate it. The shuttle seating thing feels strictly like an issue of ego between Command and IA, which in my opinion isn't a great reason to push for dev changes. If anything, just toss a seat somewhere for them to sit down, and then there's suddenly no problem.

[LordFowl]

Much as I am loathe to afford credibility to the IAA, there is no reason for them not to have access to the bridge. They are a whitelisted position which benefits both from communication with command staff and access to command staff facilities. If you have a specific problem with an IAA, you should consider talking about it with them ICly if you are a captain or HoP, OoCly if you are one of the unimportant head of staff, or via ahelps if you feel it necessary.

Also, the dev team did not give IAA access to the bridge or command staff radios - that was actually a byproduct of the baymerge.

[Kaed]

This was presented as a development suggestion and not a policy suggestion, so my input is a bit limited in regards to supporting or rejecting it. However, I don't see the mechanical benefit to removing this access.

The IAA office alone does not come with the access to security records IAAs should have access to, and I don't have an issue at all with agents using the station announcement console like a Head of Staff can. They may provide a service to the crew and that is a valid way to project it. If a Captain would rather they not use it, they have the authority to order them not to.

Additionally, agents are authorized to use the emergency broadcast system to contact Central Command, and the bridge is really the only place they can go to operate it. The shuttle seating thing feels strictly like an issue of ego between Command and IA, which in my opinion isn't a great reason to push for dev changes. If anything, just toss a seat somewhere for them to sit down, and then there's suddenly no problem.

 

I can very easily add security records to the IAA office. They also have, behind each of their desks,

 

 

A requests console, which I believe is capable of making announcements they're just not loud 'priority announcements' that make a big DING sound.

These aren't hard changes to make, because these functions don't require them to be on the bridge.

In any case, if you want to move this to policy, you can.

 

Much as I am loathe to afford credibility to the IAA, there is no reason for them not to have access to the bridge. They are a whitelisted position which benefits both from communication with command staff and access to command staff facilities. If you have a specific problem with an IAA, you should consider talking about it with them ICly if you are a captain or HoP, OoCly if you are one of the unimportant head of staff, or via ahelps if you feel it necessary.

Also, the dev team did not give IAA access to the bridge or command staff radios - that was actually a byproduct of the baymerge.

 

That doesn't work. There is a significant sense of 'why does it matter' to a lot of people who actually have the authority to shoo away an IAA who is getting a little bigheaded, and for players who don't, the IAA tends to snootily ignore them entirely. They benefit from this access only because their office lacks certain facilities they occassionally need.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Guest

[Azande]

Request consoles cannot make announcements, only Heads of Staff's can.

[Kaed]

Request consoles cannot make announcements, only Heads of Staff's can.

 

Also fixable.

 

Also, the dev team did not give IAA access to the bridge or command staff radios - that was actually a byproduct of the baymerge.

 

So this isn't even something that you worked hard for after all. It's just an accident. Hmmm.

[Arrow768]

There are a few things to that suggestion that have some merit:

• IA should have the ability to make announcements via the console in their office.
  
• IA should have access to a announcements system via the request consoles.
  

 

Now onto the more difficult part of the suggestion.

The access changes.

They were introduced by the Baymerge or the rebase from bay.

In the original codebase they did not have command access while having simmilar responsibilities

The question remains if there is a usecase that requires them to have it.

With the bugs fixed that were outlined above, they have imho no reason to have access to the bridge as they can perform all their duties from their office.

I would remove the bridge access and give them basic access to the departments as this would allow them to actually see if proper procedure is followed and report to the head of staff of the department if that is not the case.

At the moment, they can just stand infront of the doors and look inside.

[Kaed]

There are a few things to that suggestion that have some merit:

• IA should have the ability to make announcements via the console in their office.
  
• IA should have access to a announcements system via the request consoles.
  

 

Now onto the more difficult part of the suggestion.

The access changes.

They were introduced by the Baymerge or the rebase from bay.

In the original codebase they did not have command access while having simmilar responsibilities

The question remains if there is a usecase that requires them to have it.

With the bugs fixed that were outlined above, they have imho no reason to have access to the bridge as they can perform all their duties from their office.

I would remove the bridge access and give them basic access to the departments as this would allow them to actually see if proper procedure is followed and report to the head of staff of the department if that is not the case.

At the moment, they can just stand infront of the doors and look inside.

 

I can get behind a lot of this, but I have a single concern here with this idea, and it involves medical. There is already kind a frustration with medical that people wander in without asking to come in or actually having a reason to be there, and since it's supposed to be a kind of sterile, private environment for patients, giving IAA free access to medical could possibly cause situations where they wander in and disturb the doctors by being a nosy bureaucrat without asking to be invited.

So I'd say if we're going to give them basic department access, they still have to ask if the medical department can admit them before they walk in uninvited. If they need to, and the department actually needs to be investigated, they can escalate the issue.

[MoondancerPony]

So I'd say if we're going to give them basic department access, they still have to ask if the medical department can admit them before they walk in uninvited. If they need to, and the department actually needs to be investigated, they can escalate the issue.

This is what was suggested for the Bridge and Command access; how come "having to ask for permission" would work for Medical but not for the Bridge? Is a CMO's authority over an IAA somehow greater than the Captain's?

[Kaed]

So I'd say if we're going to give them basic department access, they still have to ask if the medical department can admit them before they walk in uninvited. If they need to, and the department actually needs to be investigated, they can escalate the issue.

This is what was suggested for the Bridge and Command access; how come "having to ask for permission" would work for Medical but not for the Bridge? Is a CMO's authority over an IAA somehow greater than the Captain's?

 

The IAA doesn't inspect the captain. =/ There's no office in the bridge that falls under their jurisdiction, unlike the argument made for basic departmental access.

[Azande]

The IAA can and does inspect the Captain up until the Captain orders them not to.

[Saudus]

I used to play IAA and really only used bridge access for the security records and announcements. If those functions are added to their office and access to the bridge removed I consider that a fair trade balance-wise and can understand the flavor reasons.

[JKJudgeX]

On many rounds, command is pretty thinly staffed and lonely. It's not so bad to have someone else in the entire bridge area when playing solo. Especially now that it's large and off to the side. On the Exodus, the bridge and captain/HOP office being centrally located made shoft-staffed command not so dreadfully lonely.

[Garnascus]

"lmao look at this idiot IAA trying to be a part of the cool kids command club"

I could not -1 this suggestion any harder. There was plenty of discussion internally which finally granted IAA this clearance. There is no reason to bar an implanted and impartial arbitrator of regulations from command areas.

[Faris]

"lmao look at this idiot IAA trying to be a part of the cool kids command club"

I could not -1 this suggestion any harder. There was plenty of discussion internally which finally granted IAA this clearance. There is no reason to bar an implanted and impartial arbitrator of regulations from command areas.

 

Agreed.

Voting for dismissal.

[Azande]

This has two dismissals (from Headmins) btw forum dudes who keep titles updated.

[LordFowl]

That would typically be the person who posts the second dismissal, but its clear that headmins aren't much sticklers for rules.

[Garnascus]

That would typically be the person who posts the second dismissal, but its clear that headmins aren't much sticklers for rules.

 

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