New Role: Coroner/Forensic Pathologist

[furrycactus]

This suggestion is for the implementation of a new Medical role that is explicitly dedicated to dealing with dead crew during a shift, and also offers some overlap between Medical and Security. Coroner being the basic version, and Forensic Pathologist being an alt-title perhaps.

What would this entail?

- The Coroner or Forensic Pathologist would primarily be the one that's responsible for the examination and identification of corpses, and the preferable role for conducting autopsies and autopsy reports.

- They would also be responsible for proper storage and organisation of the morgue and any cadavers on station. They carry out any postmortem instructions in an employee's medical records (unless they have a religious component that is to be or can be performed by any Chaplain role currently aboard, in which case they should hand the body off to them), and generally ensure the deceased are properly handled until further arrangements can be made after the shift.

- They would also ideally be the first person that handles cloning procedures, if available.

Why?

First and foremost, I believe this role would be a good idea, because there's always been a bit of a grey area between Security and Medical on who is qualified and should be handling an autopsy - when in reality, neither a Surgeon/MD/FT/CSI perform autopsies, but rather a Pathologist, as Pathologists are the ones that look at the causes and effects on the body of disease or damage. The closest thing we have to such is a Virologist; a scarcely played role, and you would be met with ridicule if you dared suggest that the Virologist handle an autopsy, even though they're actually technically the most qualified. A trend I've also noticed is a few CSIs claiming medical and surgical knowledge because "I have the knowledge because I can do autopsies", which while yeah that should be handled separately, it's a bit unrealistic, since CSIs and FTs don't do autopsies.

Giving a role specific responsibility for handling the deceased also helps lighten the load on medical a little, because it's quite common that in hectic rounds, bodies are dumped in the temporary morgue or outside cloning for entire rounds, because regular doctors have better things to do than look after the dead, because triage. Doctors also often just stuff them in morgue trays without sorting their belongings either.

Also, giving them the responsibilities for preparing bodies as per postmortem instructions gives players a chance to actually have their medical records followed properly, instead of just having their dead characters stuffed in a morgue tray for an hour, as is normally done. It can also give the various Chaplain roles a tie to Medical if certain crewmembers have religious notes in their postmortem instructions, and giving more interaction with a role like the Chaplain is always good. If given the responsibility of handling the medical aspect of cloning as well, it gives a tie-in with the psychiatrist, too. As in they're the ones that clone somebody, get them their treatment, and then have them handed off to the psych, or they're administered medicine from the chemist from them.

Also adding a specialised role to cover autopsies and bodies can really help the roleplay aspect of that shine more, as most doctors are eager to finish it as soon as possible to get back to being able to treat living personnel. Some even drop or ignore autopsies entirely in favour of this. One role specifically made for it means a greater focus will be given to the job.

Or if this seems like too much, at the very least, perhaps an alt-title for the Virologist called Pathologist. Give them morgue access if they don't already have it, and make them primarily responsible for cadavers and autopsies as well as viruses, perhaps? It's just not realistic to have regular doctors or a CSI cutting people open to look for a specific cause of death when it's a rather specialised field.

[Butterrobber202]

Isn’t that like half the Forensic Tech's job?

[furrycactus]

Or a doctor's. It's always been a bit of a grey area, as far as I've seen anyway. It doesn't seem logical that a Forensic Tech has the extensive medical knowledge on top of what they already have forensics-wise to perform an autopsy, and they've still got a decent bit to do without that one facet. It's more like a quarter, that they shouldn't logically have in the first place.

[Dr. Farson]

I like this idea, a coroner would make a lot of sense, and It would add more realism to the game. A +1 from me.

[ben10083]

I see no reason for us to have a role that only is useful during rounds when someone dies, what will they even do in the long periods of time when no-one dies? The CSI can do the autopsy and medical can place people in a temporary morgue to be cloned/incinerated/sacrificed/etc. -1

[Resilynn]

I +1 the fuck out of this.

We have plenty of reactive roles on the station: CSIs wait for a crime to take place, cargo techs wait for someone to order something, surgeons wait for someone to break something. Each of those roles have found ways to RP while they wait, I’m sure the coroner would be no different.

And let me tell you, there is a LOT of work for them to do. I try my best to make sure bodies are properly handled each round- because there is much more to do than stuff them in a body bag on the floor. Sorting through their belongings takes forever. I personally cremate bodies with no post mortems, I have almost never been able to convince chaplains to hold any sort of funeral and frankly I don’t have the time to. No one in medical does, and the CSI/forensic tech is often too busy with crime scenes or pretending they’re an officer. CSI bodies get stuffed in the morgue with all their gear on too.

People die on this station, canonically, almost every day. Miners fall, engineers catch on fire, science finds new and interesting ways to kill them selves. None of this is antag related, all of it is technically canon, which means there really IS a demand for this role. If NT has the foresight to put three autopsy labs and four morgues on this research station, they have the foresight to hire someone to operate all of them.

[Arrow768]

I´m slightly opposed to yet another role.

Why not just rename the virologist to pathologist and make them responsible for the deceased ?

Their research is usually not time-sensitive, unless there is a ongoing viral outbreak which is not too common.

But even then thats resolved in a few minutes.

[Butterrobber202]

I’m gonna -1 this. We already have a shit load of specific medical roles that use up the same job Slots, no need to add any more to the list.

[BRAINOS]

+1.

reactive roles aren't a bad thing.

all of the responsibilities this job has are currently only covered by grey areas and handed off to whoever mechanically can do it and isn't busy.

that's not okay.

adding this role would finally have someone dedicated to doing the role and can offer plenty of neat character ideas for who'd pick a job like that.

adding jobs when there is actual shit to do or simple rp potential is not a bad thing, and this is literally both.

[TheSleepyCatmom]

Also a -1 from me. We really, really don't need more clutter in an already cluttered area of security and/or medical.

While a Forensic Technician doesn't absolutely have to know the basics of this field, it's very common for them to if they've experience in their fields. Especially in fields now-days in the server, where even detectives understand how to do coroner reports and autopsies at times. It's very honestly not needed, and we can simply get away with giving an alt-title to the FT at the absolute most if that's at all required. Or, as Arrow said, why not simply give an alt-title to Virologist as Pathologist. Makes sense to me. Doctors apparently know Virology as well anyhow.

With the way people RP their medically experienced and Forensically experienced characters, this already overlaps with how people RP. While not everyone, some people yes. Which means it'll step on a lot of toes, more than it'll improve anything to be quite honest.

[ShameOnTurtles]

People die on this station, canonically, almost every day. Miners fall, engineers catch on fire, science finds new and interesting ways to kill them selves. None of this is antag related, all of it is technically canon, which means there really IS a demand for this role. If NT has the foresight to put three autopsy labs and four morgues on this research station, they have the foresight to hire someone to operate all of them.

I will contest the fact that a lot of these deaths are canon to my dying breath. A lot of the stuff on station doesn’t have antag involvement but it not consistent and believable in our setting, such as someone being willing to work on a station with a body count higher than the battle of the five points.

With that said I am pretty much neutral to this role being added. I see the appeal, and having someone dedicated to handling any corpses that pop up would be nice.

[furrycactus]

I see no reason for us to have a role that only is useful during rounds when someone dies, what will they even do in the long periods of time when no-one dies? The CSI can do the autopsy and medical can place people in a temporary morgue to be cloned/incinerated/sacrificed/etc. -1

 

As was already said, reactive roles aren't a bad thing, and most of medical are reactive roles. This is an RP server, so it's not hard to believe the players can actually go off and RP when they're not entirely needed for their job. Other things they could potentially do is speak to crew members who have rather barren medical records to get an idea about what they wish to be done to them postmortem, for instance. And like I had just mentioned, medical and the CSI do already put them in the morgue, but that's about it. They're stuffed there and nothing more is done with them, unless they're cremated.

 

I´m slightly opposed to yet another role.

Why not just rename the virologist to pathologist and make them responsible for the deceased ?

Their research is usually not time-sensitive, unless there is a ongoing viral outbreak which is not too common.

But even then thats resolved in a few minutes.

 

Renaming the Pathologist was the latter part of my suggestion and I'm also on board with that.

 

I’m gonna -1 this. We already have a shit load of specific medical roles that use up the same job Slots, no need to add any more to the list.

 

I agree that it's annoying that half the medical roles are all alt-titles for Medical Doctor, which is why the suggestion was for it to be its own slot - or make Virologist its own slot, and have it be an alt-title.

 

Also a -1 from me. We really, really don't need more clutter in an already cluttered area of security and/or medical.

While a Forensic Technician doesn't absolutely have to know the basics of this field, it's very common for them to if they've experience in their fields. Especially in fields now-days in the server, where even detectives understand how to do coroner reports and autopsies at times. It's very honestly not needed, and we can simply get away with giving an alt-title to the FT at the absolute most if that's at all required. Or, as Arrow said, why not simply give an alt-title to Virologist as Pathologist. Makes sense to me. Doctors apparently know Virology as well anyhow.

With the way people RP their medically experienced and Forensically experienced characters, this already overlaps with how people RP. While not everyone, some people yes. Which means it'll step on a lot of toes, more than it'll improve anything to be quite honest.

 

The alt-title for the Virologist was what I also suggested at the end of my post, because it could also work. Virologist would need its own unique role though, instead of it being a Medical Doctor alt-title as well. I'm simply saying that it doesn't seem to make sense that so many different roles on the station claim responsibility and in-depth knowledge of autopsy reports. And detectives doing autopsies sounds like lowkey powergaming. Same with regular doctors and virology. And it wouldn't quite step on peoples' toes, I don't think. Ideally a Coroner/FP would simply be the first person you go to for this thing. If they're missing, then other roles can fill in if the character has the skillset IC, as most roles work now.

The overall purpose of the suggestion was to fill a bit of a grey and cluttered area between Medical and Security. While doctors and security can look after cadavers if they wish, it's rare they'll dedicate proper time to it, because their jobs have bigger and more important requirements. The proposed role was intended to fill that gap.

[TheSleepyCatmom]

I still disagree with it. We're also 440 years in the future, y'know? I'm sure there's a change in the standard medical knowledge for people in these fields. Especially in a corporate setting where this corporation basically owns part of space. (Not in a literal sense.)

I suppose I understand a little more indepth as to what you meant now, though, so I'm retracting my -1 for the time being. I'll leave it on a neutral note.

[Bauser]

-1. I like the idea, but we can't really support it. If they go in security, they'll end up as another officer, if they go in medical, we lose one more person who can actually treat the injured. People don't typically stay dead long enough for this role to be very relevant, and in the event that they do, it detracts from the minimal relevance that a forensic technician still has.

I would support this if it was an alt-title for the forensic technician. You can fluff yourself as a forensic pathologist, because as it's been pointed out, the role fits in the setting well enough - we just don't have the room to squeeze it in mechanically. If we had twice as many players and rounds were twice as long, sure. But we don't, and aren't going to any time soon.

EDIT: Furthermore, the last thing we need is another role fighting for ownership of every corpse. As it stands, we have roles that demand many corpses and rounds that don't produce enough.