[1 Dismissal] Tackling

[Bauser]

Running into someone with at least a 5-tile straight-line run-up while you're on the harm intent should allow you to tackle them (unless they're wearing a voidsuit/hardsuit while you're not, or are wearing a hardsuit while you're wearing a voidsuit, etc. - basically, their armor way outclasses yours). Tackling someone will send you both onto the floor for a 5-second-ish stun, with a 1-2 tile knockback in the direction of the run, and do a small amount of brute damage to both of you.

The utility of this move is supposed to be for rapidly disarming a character while they're at a numerical disadvantage. I.E. you have an ally nearby or bystanders to collect the disarmed item. Otherwise, it's still anybody's fight as you both stand up and possibly wrestle over the weapon, or they use the time you spend grabbing the weapon to get in a few hits of their own with fists or another tool.

Plus every now and then it will result in someone completely and hilariously bulldozing a stranger when they're sprinting down the hallway. And that stranger will be a head of staff, and so they'll be arrested or fined. But they didn't mean to do it, so they won't go quietly, so the situation will escalate, and it will be grand.

[Hendricks]

Honestly, this sounds really fun and really funny, I can imagine multiple scenarios where this would be really fun, would also lead to a 10 tile safe distance from just about anyone, especially security. But I agree, armor should play a role into it, I also think there should be a chance to just flounder it completely, where you kind of fall at them, chances are higher if they are wearing armor, and or of a specific species, I couldn't imagine a little human tackling a 7 foot Unathi or Vaurca, but that's just me.

[Bauser]

One thing I didn't consider initially which needs to be factored in is move-speed. Even if you're on the run intent, this technique should necessitate a certain minimum movement speed so like a critically wounded or starving person can't take you down just because he timidly wobbled straight to you on run intent.

[furrycactus]

I love love love this idea. It could also promote some tactical movement for once when it comes to sec or antags, instead of everyone on harm intent trying to dogpile over each other to unga the valids.

[ben10083]

I am not really a fan of this idea, if this was implemented, what stops anyone from just starting the engagement with a tackle and getting some free hits while they try to get up? I can easily see this as a cheap tactic by sec or antags to quickly win, with security quickly cuffing the person or the antag beating them to death in that timeframe, overall, -1.

[Conspiir]

You could tie it to some kind of boot-slot item, maybe.

Rather like force gloves, it could be bought from the uplink or created in research.

[Bauser]

I am not really a fan of this idea, if this was implemented, what stops anyone from just starting the engagement with a tackle and getting some free hits while they try to get up? I can easily see this as a cheap tactic by sec or antags to quickly win, with security quickly cuffing the person or the antag beating them to death in that timeframe, overall, -1.

 

The thing to stop them from doing that is that the tackle puts BOTH people on the ground.

[Butterrobber202]

5 seconds is a really fucking long time. You can get about 1 or 2 hits in per second if BYOND is working. That means at max I can score enough hits to Crit someone without armor in 5 seconds.

[Bauser]

Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong here?

Both people fall onto the ground, stunned

One does not get an opportunity to attack the other

And if you have an ally standing by to murk them once they're on the ground, is that... actually unfair in any way? Sure, we can shorten that stun, but it seems like a fair and desirable consequence of trying to attack a group of people when you're on your own. Especially considering it's hard-countered by... taking a step to the side...

EDIT: In other words, if someone is unarmored and winded the ground and you want to kill them by viciously beating them as fast as the game clock possibly allows, is there... some problem with the mechanics here? Is it unrealistic in anyway to say that you could go apeshit and critically wound someone in five seconds? Think of it this way: Next time you have the chance to do something boring to validhunt someone, don't. Just don't do it. It's (to use the same phrase I used in the CHV thread) really not hard.

[LordFowl]

Voting for dismissal. An instant-stun (even if balanced by stunning the aggressor) is not really desirable. Even similar moves in grabfu require you to grab your target beforehand. Simply running up to someone and stunning them thereby, as defined by the original post, will only serve to enhance disparities between equipment (if you have heavier armor you win vs. an opponent that has light armor) and numbers (if you're outnumbered you lose. even if it's just a civilian someone can just instantly run up to you and you're stunned).

Ultimately stun mechanics, instant or otherwise, should be more complicated than just running up and making contact with someone.

Not to mention that your "hilarious" situation of people instantly stunning each other because they were running in the halls sounds quite the opposite of hilarious to me. Soon we'll have to code in hall monitors.

[Trazz666]

Fuck, I really like this idea. I've always thought we need something like this. Add in some variables for race and IPC chassis and this is gold. Unathi need to be the best at tackling I feel, given their incredible sprint speed and huge frame.

(I only mention IPC chassis since the Zeng-Hu isn't exactly metal and the g2s are a goddamn tank)

[Bauser]

I wish you could still hold onto items and attack while laying down. That would preclude the possibility of turning into a cheap insta-fight-ender. Then the function of tackling someone would just be to immediately inhibit their movement, which is less consequential, without being less flashy.

[JamOfBoy]

Perhaps tying this to a verb rather than a part of the mechanics can remove some of the inherent drawbacks. What I mean by this is a button you press to do something similar to the mech charge - there is a (hopefully short) windup, including red text in the log, then you move forward 2(?) tiles. If you come into contact with another mob, your idea is the same. If a wall, door or otherwise solid object, ouch. This means no more clothesline-the-janitor as you run in to each other in the halls, while still adding another complexity to combat.