[Cancelled] Federation Of Labor Station Event

[Scheveningen]

49 minutes ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

Do you not want more intersectionality between factions?

If we were anywhere but Tau Ceti in our current gameplay setting, yes.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Tau Ceti is not in a black hole. It's affected by the events of the galaxy. It's parked very close to the Sol System - closer than any other faction in our setting.

[Mogelix]

9 hours ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

Have you seen their demands? dont you think raddems are a bit extreme? Do you need me to tell you how to argue against them? I can do that. Youre really making a lot of assumptions here and then using loaded terms like mary sue. its a bit weird dude

Hey, sorry for being aggressive, I can see why you'd take it like that.

Raddems are extreme, but many characters are also extreme. The only reason they're not tearing out their political opposition's throats throats is self antagging rules. Now, obviously, I don't think the unions will act like this outside of antag rounds, but it will become /extremely tedious/ for security to deal with these minor, repetitive, mind numbing, barely unique or character developing things like 'unga me want pay-rise' or 'bunga let me hack vending machines despite having a chef giving out (usually) free food.'

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

On 12/02/2019 at 07:23, Mogelix said:

I really don't want this. Sorry to come off as anti-fun but the last thing this server needs to do is encourage 'hoho, I'm so quirky cocky and rebellious' type characters.

These unions have no downsides and seem to be one hundred percent 'the good guys.'  All this does is encourage border line self antagging, as theres more tension between 'good guy working people' and 'evil rich security/command'

On rebellious characters:

I'm making what I assume is a reasonable, safe bet in regards to these types of characters, based on a certain set of assumptions.

• These characters already exist and engage in frustrating behavior for security and command.
• They will continue to act this way, and always act this way, whether or not this proposal is implemented or not. They will still exist and be exactly the same if we are to drop this entire affair.
  • We should heavily consider the impacts on gameplay and the meta for outlier characters, but not contort ourselves to try to accommodate people who will act in bad faith no matter what.
• ATLAS, in another quadrant of the meta, gave xenophobic characters good reasons to justify and act out on their xenophobia through roleplay.
  • Following this, I find it reasonable to believe that we can do the same for another genre of these types of characters.

On the drawbacks of the union:
Because I haven't made up my mind yet, the union has not actually been implemented, what is presented is the most curt overview I can provide while still giving context. You have not seen the full consequence of the fight for worker rights for three primary reasons.

1. I haven't made up my mind on if this endeavor ignores Tau Ceti when it spreads throughout the galaxy (accommodating player weariness), or bleeds into Tau Ceti (to accomodate player interest/excitement).
2. Writing out all of this is not the purpose of this thread, which focuses on gameplay and if we want to see the consequences play out on the station. You have the justifications of the GFL and their manifesto.
3. Anti-union resources, when they don't have a suspicious set of corporate sponsors, or a suspicious refusal to disclose sponsors, target modern unions in ways that I would struggle to make interesting. Would you find an argument about protecting pensions, with compelling arguments on both sides, to be a fun thing to do in a round?

That said, there is still a breadth of resources that can easily frame this how I would want to see. Our setting is in this mixture of the Gilded Age of America with the Age of Sail's East India Companies. The early years of Unions were formative and had all the juicy issues. Using resources on IWW history and the history of other labor movements I put co-opted the surface level of the divisive issues that faced labor movements and blended them into the GFL, while still finding a few resources that give decent arguments about modern union issues, methods, and goals that are more than a thinly veiled front from partisan sources. I can  share some of the surface level sources because I don't think you're interested in reading PDF files of essays written in the 1800's and 1930's or textbooks written by economists.

So while I'm going to make both sides of the GFL and its critics have good arguments and justifications for believing what they do, I need to blend all of this together in ways that are actually related to and interesting for gameplay and the meta.

Do YOU have resources you would like to share? Do YOU have arguments that you can give me that I could incorporate into this project for arguing against the union? Do YOU think that you can resist and argue against the GFL and its followers without an explicit organization, or do YOU think I need to create an "I'm Fine, Thanks" organization to more explicitly frame it like an rp-rev rounds revolutionaries vs recidivists? I haven't made up my mind.

14 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

This seems rather forced and ham-handed. Biesel itself is already rather disconnected from the problems of Sol (not to mention that the Alliance would reasonably prefer not to screw with a megacorporation with a list of Fleet Security Forces that are hardly exhaustive in themselves, and hires elite commando units to protect their own assets in the worst case scenario:

Biesel is directly affected by Sol. They are parked very close to the Sol System are are surrounded on all sides of the Alliance. We've had several canon events in which the Alliance meddled directly in the station. The Alliance invaded Tau Ceti and occupied it for an entire week. There are pamphlets floating around the station warning you of Alliance spies. One of the most powerful men in the Alliance is the man that invaded Tau Ceti and who's political party does not believe Tau Ceti should be independent.

Your opinions fly wildly out of sync with what has been written and executed on for the past four years. You have been here for all of it! What are you talking about!

That said, this is not the Alliance government invading Tau Ceti. It's a labor movement. These things spill across borders and do not remain within the boundaries of a state.

And lastly, the Aurora is affected by things going on despite being far away in Tau Ceti because it's still part of Tau Ceti, and it's where we all play on right now. If we have a good reason for it, the station is affected by anything we want it to be.

10 hours ago, Mogelix said:

Raddems are extreme, but many characters are also extreme. The only reason they're not tearing out their political opposition's throats throats is self antagging rules.

The existing rules we have govern these characters.

10 hours ago, Mogelix said:

Now, obviously, I don't think the unions will act like this outside of antag rounds, but it will become /extremely tedious/ for security to deal with these minor, repetitive, mind numbing, barely unique

They already deal with antagonists every day. I play security and I have my own opinions on certain gimmicks I find overused or passe too. But like I said in the beginning, we shouldn't wring our hands and cancel entire projects because we are worried about bad faith participation. (I haven't made up my mind.)

On Relevance To the Aurora
When Tau Ceti was invaded last year, the Aurora had its captain slot removed. It was replaced by a Sol Officer, and an additional slot was added to the IAA slot for a Sol Representative. The Sol Officer was not loyalty implanted and was almost always at complete odds with the rest of Command and the station. When the event was being planned and then when happening I had made several safe bets on the nature of Command's meta (pitting two different, clear interests within command against one another) and making a lot of characters get presented with questions about loyalty, to whom, and how to resist. It was a very eventful period on the station and there was almost constantly intrigue, subterfuge, and direct action from both sides, while still allowing the possibility of quiet, normal rounds so that people could go without all that baggage for that round if a certain set of circumstances lead them to deadhour or just not interested that round. I like shaking up the status quo while allowing the possibility of staying in it when reasonably possible. Basically, I consider deadhour concerns in my projects.

This is going to be a LOT less intensive than what happened there, but the reasoning I am holding is the same. It is my belief that there will be a lot of people flocking to be Plebs because it's a moderate-ish, safe option that you can hold and advocate for and get away with it if you're careful. There will be radical dems, they will probably be more active as antagonists, but there will be less than the plebs.

Whether or not there are people that hack vendors, punch officers, scream, swear, cry, and stomp their feet next round will not be changed by the fact that they can't claim they're doing it for one rp reason (being raddem) over another (they're upset their friend got arrested).

I haven't made up my mind.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

On 12/02/2019 at 07:46, SatinsPristOTD said:

Just keep in mind people don't really play this game to get sucked into the polar vortex of politics. Captains will shut down radical thinking quickly because it eats into productivity and crew morale. All you're going to achieve is a headache. 

If it's blended properly into the dynamics of the game, IE how our Frost Invasion played out the politics via the Officer vs Command, I know it can be very interesting. It wont all be dialectics and this whole affair is a surface level exploration rather than a dense political treatise.

On 12/02/2019 at 07:46, SatinsPristOTD said:

With that being said, sure. I don't want to see this spill this hard onto the station though. We can pull our own Sol lore though our characters ourselves. We don't need anything that feels forced.

I would hope that I could build it up that it feels natural enough and not forced.

On 12/02/2019 at 07:51, SatinsPristOTD said:

You're treating the Aurora like it's this.... Mini-colony instead of a work facility. I don't go to my job and say "I should be able to vote for my boss!" despite my political alignment..... 

You can desire to improve your workplace and the condition of yourself and your other employees while on the clock. Union agitation already exists and happens.

On 12/02/2019 at 07:46, SatinsPristOTD said:

But radical Democrats at a work environment in a different SOLAR SYSTEM for a major corporation? Uh..... If it's done tastefully it might do some good. You can have a radically Democratic Solarian now. I do. 

I'm working to that it's done tastefully. But I haven't made up my mind.

On 12/02/2019 at 07:46, Coalf said:

So can non-factioneers "win" the event?

Are players going to be rewarded for reporting them?

What is security going to do about all this?

Isn't this technically corporate espionage? Something I believe we already have laws for?

1. Yes, that's a possible end state. "Thanks, I'm Fine" being victorious is completely up to how it all plays out.
2. That's also a great possibility: reporting union agitation. I've been talking with Mofo about how, if this is implemented (I havent made up my mind) how we can balance punishment in a way that's not a pain in the butt, while also being reasonable, while also not being over bearing, while also being consistent.
3. Security would enforce regulations. There's no regulations against holding beliefs in your brain. If security wants to raid and flashbang a bunch of crew sitting in the library talking about GFL ideas, or ignore them, or quietly convert to them, that's up to the round in question.
4. The GFL is not encouraging the selling or stealing corporate secrets. I would say this does not fall under espionage, but individual acts can violate individual regulations.

[CampinKiller]

Something that wasnt really addressed (that I saw) was my question in regards to association with these groups. If one these groups are stated to want command staff gone, is that not to be considered sedition for undermining the chain of command?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

On 13/02/2019 at 18:43, CampinKiller said:

Something that wasnt really addressed (that I saw) was my question in regards to association with these groups. If one these groups are stated to want command staff gone, is that not to be considered sedition for undermining the chain of command?

Thats a question that needa context. It could be, but if they say is as a policy suggestion and insist they still listen to command?

[NerdyVampire]

Just a voice here saying that I look forward to seeing it represented n game. I would probably make a character for both sides on the conflict. If the captain is late for getting on the station, I suppose it would be considered a peaceful demonstration to block his access to his own office unless he hears us out.

[SatinsPristOTD]

I'm already starting to see SOMEONE (I'm not sure who) do some of this on station, and it's being poorly done at that. Papers are left around on the floor talking about the Command tyranny and how communism/socialism/whatever would be better. How the people should be in charge. It's all poorly wrote, in all caps, and generally looks like a giant meme.

I didn't start seeing this happen until this thread popped up on the forums. Whomever is doing it is really putting this in bad light, because it's so lackluster and dumb that either no one is paying it any attention, or they're not bothering to give one shit about it.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

9 hours ago, SatinsPristOTD said:

I'm already starting to see SOMEONE (I'm not sure who) do some of this on station, and it's being poorly done at that. Papers are left around on the floor talking about the Command tyranny and how communism/socialism/whatever would be better. How the people should be in charge. It's all poorly wrote, in all caps, and generally looks like a giant meme.

I didn't start seeing this happen until this thread popped up on the forums. Whomever is doing it is really putting this in bad light, because it's so lackluster and dumb that either no one is paying it any attention, or they're not bothering to give one shit about it.

Sounds like someone is being a butt. But as i said in the op, do we want to bend over backwards to accomodate them by avoiding anything they can use to be a butt? They are more than likely not doing this in good faith, and want to disparage any initiative like this.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[VTCobaltblood]

11 hours ago, SatinsPristOTD said:

I'm already starting to see SOMEONE (I'm not sure who) do some of this on station, and it's being poorly done at that. Papers are left around on the floor talking about the Command tyranny and how communism/socialism/whatever would be better. How the people should be in charge. It's all poorly wrote, in all caps, and generally looks like a giant meme.

It's an unrelated character as far as I know that doesn't use this lore.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I am cancelling the impact of the galactic federation of labor on the station due to negative public feedback. It will remain contained to sol and remain an issue therein only.

[Carver]

Disappointing.

[Itanimulli]

Darn. This would have been a good point to showcase how certain characters act under the influence of totally no the syndicate's beginnings.

[Jessica_Stark]

Kinda sad. Tish wants better working conditions.