nerf Robotics-created Mechs

[BurgerBB]

I've been playing robotics for the past week or so, and I can tell you right now that it's... honestly broken in most gamemodes.

Of course I'm referring to combat mechs and the equipment you can give them. Machine guns that cost only 5 steel sheets. Laser rifles that cost 5 steel sheets. Gygax's that only cost a stack of sheets and some diamonds. I think that in a given round where research is maxed and mining is going ham, you should most be able to make 1 durand and 2 gygax's if you're really trying. 2 roboticists with a lot of materials can make like 10 durands if they wanted to. I've been told countless times that my mech making abilities have ruined rounds.

So here are my suggestions to improve it. You can pick one. You can pick all. You can pick some. These are just ideas I had that would remove the problems of robotics.

• All combat mechs should have higher combat levels so you'd have to max research in order to get them.
• All combat mechs should have resource costs other than steel.
• All combat mechs should have some sort of firing-pin like device that you need to order from cargo or get from the warden in order to use.
• All exosuit weapons such as machine guns and whatnot should have a higher cost other than 5 sheets of steel.

Honestly I don't see the difference between what happened with science when they could print lawmakers and other shit freely. It's the same thing, but possibly worse.

[TheSleepyCatmom]

The only hard-counter to a mech is... Well, an ion gun. Or an EMP of some form. Anything else is can walk off with relative ease unless you're spamming AMR rounds at it, or an AR or something. During rev or modes where you can't do that, it's a little, uh. Overkill, sure.

 

Personally I like all of the above. The firing pin-like item needs to be attached to allow weapons that are lethal to be attached to a mech. Sounds great, tbh. RD should start with a single one, too, like firing pins. :shrug:

[kyres1]

Please no. Security has ions, all antagonists have EMPs except rev, vamp and ling (and can spam them even more than security feasibly can) which instantaneously kill mechs and/or their pilot.

There's also the fact that they aren't really even all that tough against conventional weapons without armor boosters. With armor boosters, it's a different story, but they take valuable slots.

Mechs are powerful. They are meant to be powerful round-ending devices. They should be moderated more. Just because you can make 12 Durands does not mean you should, just as you shouldn't wield the power of God via chemistry because you could.

I'd say nerf RIGs instead, but they recently got a major nerf where proper hardsuits can not equip every single module in the game, preventing your combat-suited security officer from holding basically an army's worth of equipment on their back without even taking up either of their hands. Alberyk has a PR up to increase their material cost as well if I recall correctly.

Half-competent mining can also get you equipped with even more potent weapons than mechs for that matter. See : station-wide EMPs and instant kill accelerators/tesla cannons.

With all that said, at least make them immune to EMPs if you're going to make them so ludicrously difficult to obtain.

[BurgerBB]

You don't have to make them ludicrously difficult. Just because I'm suggesting nerfs of indeterminate magnitudes doesn't mean that I will opt for the worst option.

 

[Kaed]

Can we please stop prefacing every thread with 'unironically?'.  It's getting kind of tired and is unnecessary. No one posts suggestions ironically/jokingly without a smack from a mod, we don't need to be told that it's a serious suggestion.

That being said, I am in support of making combat mechs harder to make.  I'm really sick of robotics pumping out combat mechs so they can cheese antags.  If they want to do that, it should be harder.

Personally, I'd like it if you can't even get the gygax/durand control boards for them on station, you have to have them imported at a high price from cargo.

[Garnascus]

Stop putting unironically in your titles please. 

 

 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Resource cost increases for high end mechs is completely fine. The other changes are not. They are unnecessary; flagrant combat mech usage already has counters both IC and administration. All mechs can also be remotely locked down (if they have a control beacon (which is not required by mechanics or policy)). Mechs can also be damaged, run out of battery, or otherwise face difficulties.

Hamstringing their use will have ancillary consequences for antagonists.

 

The only other ground I would be comfortable giving is requiring mechs to have a control beacon to function unless emagged. This, in and of itself, is a check on rogue mech usage without punishing antagonists.

EDIT: Another dev has said that the only option for mechs is a remote EMP pulse instead of a remote lock down, so this post may be inaccurate. But either ability ends the use of the mech.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[BurgerBB]

Everyone talks about how antags can "just" counter mechs.

I've received several complaints on several rounds about how the creation, or the hint of a creation, of a combat mech, regardless of its contents scares antags. Like if you were an antag, you would be scared shitless of having to face a mech regardless of your status. It would make the ion rifle or emp a high priority and may waste precious time and resources that may ruin your gimmick.

Cult, ninja, wizard, and possibly autotraitor and merc are the only gamemodes where you can REASONABLY counter mechs as they have access to EMPs and ions, and even then, they can be a pretty large burden.

Rev can and will get shut down by a mech. Raider can and will get shut down by a mech. AI and their borgs can get shut down by a mech. Ling and Vamp can get shut down by a mech, but this is rare since they're both stealth gamemodes.

 

Imagine the encounters you had with security as an antag.

Now imagine those encounters with security having a Durrand equiped with a heavy ion rifle, gatling laser, repair droid, and energy relay.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Please address my two solutions.

[BurgerBB]

58 minutes ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

Please address my two solutions.

Sure.

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The only other ground I would be comfortable giving is requiring mechs to have a control beacon to function unless emagged. This, in and of itself, is a check on rogue mech usage without punishing antagonists.

This would be good on top of another suggestion, like giving robotics access by default to disable mechs.

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EDIT: Another dev has said that the only option for mechs is a remote EMP pulse instead of a remote lock down, so this post may be inaccurate. But either ability ends the use of the mech.

This would be good alongside the EMP option. You can either EMP the mech, destroying it basically, or just eject the user.

 

[DronzTheWolf]

10 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

Rev can and will get shut down by a mech. Raider can and will get shut down by a mech. AI and their borgs can get shut down by a mech. Ling and Vamp can get shut down by a mech, but this is rare since they're both stealth gamemodes.

Raider actually gets a guaranteed spawn for a Ion Rifle, unless that was changed recently.
Though I do say I support the nerfs, mostly because I've played Robotics a couple times and I realize just how easy it is to shut down a round. Without even trying, too. 

[sonicgotnuked]

Could we add to the research requirement so you need certain things regardless other then minerals to build one? For example, when the rail gun was a thing it needed a really high combat level.

[Carver]

Mechs being more common is a side effect of all the cumulative mining buffs over the years. So either immensely up resource cost, or nerf mining. If you do the former, preferably don't up the resource cost of things like odys/ripleys that were intended to be made fairly easily.