TheOrleans Posted June 11, 2019 Posted June 11, 2019 Hello. I think the time has come for me to post about this since I've been thinking about this quite a lot. Why aren't we, the players, allowed to see our own notes? I don't understand the reasoning behind this. You only allow players to the warnings, once the thing is already becoming serious. I think that, allowing the players to read their own notes would be beneficial, and would, eventually end in a better community with less punishments. Also allow us to see our past bans, jobbans and all those things that we can't see right now without having to contact an admin
Xelnagahunter Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 Notes aren't actually meant to be as scary as some people think they are. I have a few notes, one about naming conventions on my first day and another about wearing a voidsuit while chilling at the bar (a form of powergaming). More may exist but those are issues that I know I was bwoinked about years ago. If I break a rule, those notes should mean next to nothing at this point as both of them were for minor incidents of "Sorry, I didn't realize." followed by corrective behavior. They were also ages ago. They are there though and will always be. Your notes allow the staff team to determine if you've been spoken to about a thing before. It's not actually a warning system when used properly, it's communication among the staff that is performed in game. Should someone have to bwionk me in the future regarding the wearing of a very uncomfortable space suit when not needed, they will know I've been spoken to previously and can apply a warning. If it's not something that can be seen currently, then I agree with bans of all types being something that can be see, along with dates and if they were lifted or not.
ComradeCorbyn Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 Who cares about some boogeyman notes. I have a shitload of notes, yet it doesn't affect my gameplay whatsoever or anything else for that matter. Just avoid major fuckups and you'll be fine. The big problem is jobbans, bans, and other stuff.
Faris Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) Sometimes notes includes information where the player is not privileged to see due to staff presently looking into a matter. Wholesale allowing of notes to be viewed by anyone at anytime would case issues with moderation. You can still however ask staff, and sometimes you'll be obliged. I don't support the mandatory allowance of all players to see their notes at any time. Edited June 12, 2019 by Aboshedab
VTCobaltblood Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 You can always ask an admin to show you your notes. I haven't been met with refusal so far.
Faris Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, VTCobaltblood said: You can always ask an admin to show you your notes. I haven't been met with refusal so far. Essentially this.
TheOrleans Posted June 12, 2019 Author Posted June 12, 2019 8 hours ago, Xelnagahunter said: Notes aren't actually meant to be as scary as some people think they are. I have a few notes, one about naming conventions on my first day and another about wearing a voidsuit while chilling at the bar (a form of powergaming). More may exist but those are issues that I know I was bwoinked about years ago. If I break a rule, those notes should mean next to nothing at this point as both of them were for minor incidents of "Sorry, I didn't realize." followed by corrective behavior. They were also ages ago. They are there though and will always be. Your notes allow the staff team to determine if you've been spoken to about a thing before. It's not actually a warning system when used properly, it's communication among the staff that is performed in game. Should someone have to bwionk me in the future regarding the wearing of a very uncomfortable space suit when not needed, they will know I've been spoken to previously and can apply a warning. If it's not something that can be seen currently, then I agree with bans of all types being something that can be see, along with dates and if they were lifted or not. It is totally impossible to remember every time you have been spoken about an issue. The thing is, if you have been spoken about something, and there's a note regarding that incident, why aren't you allowed to check your own notes? So you can remember bad things you did in the past and not repeat them again, even if they are little little mistakes, why not?
TheOrleans Posted June 12, 2019 Author Posted June 12, 2019 6 hours ago, Aboshedab said: Sometimes notes includes information where the player is not privileged to see due to staff presently looking into a matter. Wholesale allowing of notes to be viewed by anyone at anytime would case issues with moderation. You can still however ask staff, and sometimes you'll be obliged. I don't support the mandatory allowance of all players to see their notes at any time. Maybe allow the staff to write notes and mark them as ''invisible'' or ''visible'' for the players? Most of them SHOULD be visible, but not the ones that the staff deem 'important to current investigations' or whatever
TheOrleans Posted June 12, 2019 Author Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said: You can always ask an admin to show you your notes. I haven't been met with refusal so far. I have a ton of notes, I feel bad asking an admin to show me everything, that's a lot of copy paste. Edited June 12, 2019 by TheOrleans
VTCobaltblood Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, TheOrleans said: I have a ton of notes, I feel bad asking an admin to show me everything, that's a lot of copy paste. Well, do as you please, then. Though admins can just take a screenshot.
TheOrleans Posted June 12, 2019 Author Posted June 12, 2019 Just now, VTCobaltblood said: Well, do as you please, then. Though admins can just take a screenshot. And why not just allowing us to see our notes anytime we want?
VTCobaltblood Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 2 hours ago, TheOrleans said: And why not just allowing us to see our notes anytime we want? Again, because admins may refuse to allow you to see some of your notes, or allow you to see them under specific conditions. Introducing invisible/hidden notes would only complicate matters for staff themselves, while being of almost no use to the players other than satisfying your curiousity.
Scheveningen Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 Strongly opposed. Notes are a format for administrators (and modlets) to use to help communicate context of interactions internally regarding specific players. Likewise there's information you're simply not privy to, especially when it comes down to whether or not the administrators have to make a decision in protecting the community while still exercising discretion. Notes are not equivalent to warnings. Nor should they be treated as such. In my opinion, the only thing that needs to change in policy is that administrators/mods shouldn't tell a player they're interacting with that they're "noting it down" or "you're getting a note for this", so that the pressure of being noted is substantially alleviated. If something is worthy of a warning, warn them. If it's only noteworthy but not bad enough to be a warning, then they should be told to have a good round and whatever discussion/interaction was had is noted down in the background as the ticket's closed.
Arrow768 Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 As explained by others. If you want to see your notes, you can contract a Administrator about it. They will review them and send those to you that can be sent to you. As notes are also used to track internal comments about players (i.e. things to watch out for. things that we suspect (meta-communication / meta-buddies) and so on) we can not allow full access to the notes for players. While it might technically be possible to allow unsupervised access to that, by adding a system to ask for a classification on notes, such a system would be complex to implement and not worth the effort to implement as past notes might have to be reclassified and the effort to look those up manually when requested is much less compared to the effort needed to implement such a system. Therefore voting for dismissal
AnimeGirlTummy Posted July 9, 2019 Posted July 9, 2019 On 11/06/2019 at 23:05, Aboshedab said: Wholesale allowing of notes to be viewed by anyone at anytime would case issues with moderation. Issues like accountability?
Skull132 Posted July 9, 2019 Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, AnimeGirlTummy said: Issues like accountability? Issues like privacy (example: if suspected of metagaming we will put other ckeys and or they connection information into a note, which leaves us having potentially exposed another person's connection info to the player), meaningless fights over wording (y u so mean, or, "change this word because it's not exactly what I did"), and generally people peering into a semi-work space. All notes that merit it are preceded by the staff member talking to the player. Ergo, the player is usually aware of the root cause. The note is for internal documentation. +1 dismissal and away we go.
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