Player Complaint- Contextual/Pennant

[Bygonehero]

BYOND Key:Bygonehero

Game ID:b25-az7G

Player Byond Key/Character name: Contextual 

Staff involved: Dwrago

Reason for complaint: I was told to make a complaint to continue an issue brought up elsewhere. Contextual lied to moderation staff in an attempt to win a ruling.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? Yes, Dwrago handled the ahelp and was the one lied to by Contextual.

Approximate Date/Time: (The date and time of the incident. Date is more important but both are helpful)

 

The player of Pennant created a problem ICly with their actions that had me doubting if they were following the rules for expected Cyborg/Robot play. I ahelped to Dwrago, and they said that Contextual was new to being a station bound, and that they didn't mean to cause the issue. As a result of this, I told them to not complain about orders again, and gave them a simple order to do (setting up shields) At this time, they did so, only to return later to not only break the orders given to them by the AI, but to also continue to complain for no real reason, since I have moved on from then and they were just in robotics socializing with their friend.

If they didn't mean to cause an issue and complain like they told Dwrago why would they do so in every instance, especially when the orders from the AI are in no way Draconian or overtly bad. I'm sure they will post Contextless screen grabs, but I assure you that the server logs will be needed to tell the entire story.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Bygonehero

[Faris]

You should elaborate on what the orders were. What orders they broke. How they broke them. And so on.

[Contextual]

Pull the logs, please. If @DRagO was misled by anything I said, it was through pure misunderstanding/misinterpretation, and not through malicious intent. The logs will show this.

[Scheveningen]

2 hours ago, Aboshedab said:

You should elaborate on what the orders were. What orders they broke. How they broke them. And so on.

To clarify, I was present during this round, and Pennant came back to the robotics lab on my character's order (particularly because Alma thought it strange that Pennant was away for more than 5-10 minutes), and the rough summary of what Pennant told Alma was that the AI was giving it orders to not be able to complain. Alma thought on it for a moment and figured the AI to be incredibly cruel for what amounted to be no reason, she then gave an order for Pennant to belay said silly orders from the AI (anyone can do that, by the way, because the AI's rank and role is below that of the crew!). She later discovered the AI had turned on several intercoms across the station, stalking several characters during the round without said consent or any indicative instruction. At which point Alma broadcasted that the AI was doing this, the AI responded with this to Pennant:



Which was cute, considering this was a solid reminder of the good old days of Bygone's terrible AI conduct. It's like he's learned nothing at all since a few years ago. What's up with that?

Highlighting some things also because apparently there's a major misunderstanding and failure to properly interpret AI laws in good faith.



Let's see what the code says about NT default laws.

 

/******************** Nanotrasen/Malf ********************/

/datum/ai_laws/nanotrasen

name = "NT Default"

selectable = 1

/datum/ai_laws/nanotrasen/New()

src.add_inherent_law("Safeguard: Protect your assigned space station from damage to the best of your abilities.")

src.add_inherent_law("Serve: Serve [current_map.company_name] personnel to the best of your abilities, with priority as according to their rank and role.")

src.add_inherent_law("Protect: Protect [current_map.company_name] personnel to the best of your abilities, with priority as according to their rank and role.")

src.add_inherent_law("Preserve: Do not allow unauthorized personnel to tamper with your equipment.")

..()

Strangely, I am not seeing the AI mentioned anywhere in these lawsets. I'm pretty sure also that the difference between being linked and unlinked is as simple as "In the absence of a crewmember giving you an order, the AI can also do so, but not at the detriment of being able to service the crew."

All things considered, Bygone, you weren't able to do anything other than threaten another character and their player with OOC retribution because you weren't getting your way. It's incredible how many times you apparently got an admin involved because things weren't going your way, rather than something problematic actually happening.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Scheveningen

[Bygonehero]

4 hours ago, Aboshedab said:

You should elaborate on what the orders were. What orders they broke. How they broke them. And so on.

I told them to select engineering or construction module, since we had only one engineer and some round start things needed to be done. They did not do that until after they were ahelped.

I told them to setup the shields after Dwrago told me that they didn't mean to come across as complaining about orders. They did that.

I told them to cease complaining about receiving orders from their bound AI, as just because Dwrago told me they were new doesn't change the fact that they did that previously in round. I wasn't cruel about it. I wasn't overt about it. I said it simply so they would stop making problems for me with the crew of the NSS Aurora. I did not forbid them from talking with Alma yet. They did not do that.

After they started to complain again, the IC escalation was once again, a robot ignoring an order just because it wants to, for seemingly no reason than to piss off crew against the AI. I informed them of this, and that complaining about not being able to complain is against the simple orders they were given. 

At this time, Contextual told Schev in some way that I was listening to many intercoms across the station. Alma did not discover this, seconds after I mentioned that I knew, privately in binary, she immediately went to "discover" that the intercom was listening. And promptly made a big fuss over it in the common channel.

At this point, I was convinced that the robot was malfunctioning, as ICly, it had made every effort to make problems with the crew and me, when it otherwise didn't need to. I also ahelped this issue to Dwrago, as it is impossible for it to be a miscommunication or "accident" as they claim when they are so obviously trying to cause problems on purpose for me.

It is here that I escalated the orders given to them, and told Pennant to leave the area and install cameras, as there was no roboticist on the crew manifest to work on them. 

During this time, the ahelp continued and dwrago said that sometimes when people play, that they just don't want to do their jobs, and to go easy on them. I conceded their point and informed them that, once they installed the last few cameras that they had, that they may go back to doing what they were doing, only to simply just stop causing problems for me, for seemingly no reason. 

1 hour ago, Scheveningen said:

Which was cute, considering this was a solid reminder of the good old days of Bygone's terrible AI conduct. It's like he's learned nothing at all since a few years ago. What's up with that?
 

Could you please point to the specific instance that you are talking about. 

[Cnaym]

@Pratepresidenten and I will be taking this complaint. Sit tight while we do the log dive and come up with a verdict on this one.

[Cnaym]

After problems getting the right logs due to a missing round ID and little to no interaction in this thread I am going to keep the post on this one as short and precise as I can while trying to explain the verdict. Let's start out with Pennant's first complaint against the AI. The logs showed that Pennant was not ordered to pick Engineering or construction, but simple asked to pick one of the two. From my point of view there is no urgency to do so and they did not go against this order. This is every word that was exchanged in regards to the AI by the stationbound.

Spoiler

Since no active alarms where found and stationbounds can monitor alarms remotely Contextual decided to not pick a module yet and wait for work to pop up. Pennant helps out the scientist that it knows with small tasks and RPs with them fine. After asked by the AI why they are sitting around near them, it explains over robotalk what it is doing and why. Instead of displaying any hostile intend they decide to RP that Pennant wants to work and is stressed about not being productive enough for the AI which is rather fitting for a simple robot. After this conversation the scientist decides to ask the AI why it is giving Pennant a hard time.

Spoiler

What I see are two things here that will pop up again and again. You are clearly misjudging the situation and deciding that you know how they should act and behave. Instead of giving a simple order and seeing whether or not Pennant follows it or if it outright goes against it's laws you decide to call them shitborg in your ahelp and be openly hostile towards them ICly by telling them not to complain about you, which they at no point did.
To the other points raised in this complaint. At no point did Pennant complaint about the AI. The phrase "I cannot complain" is used in every professional setting as a meaning that you either have no issue or that it is nothing to be discussed with external parties. How another person interprets this is up to them, but Pennant just outright stated and followed it's order.

On 05/09/2019 at 22:42, Bygonehero said:

At this point, I was convinced that the robot was malfunctioning, as ICly, it had made every effort to make problems with the crew and me, when it otherwise didn't need to. I also ahelped this issue to Dwrago, as it is impossible for it to be a miscommunication or "accident" as they claim when they are so obviously trying to cause problems on purpose for me.

You clearly did tell Drwago so in your ahelp, calling Pennant a shitborg two more times without any evidence of them causing IC issues for your AI. You listened in to people, you where caught, you blamed another player for it. Now here's the kicker. Even after Alma outright ordered Pennant to ignore the AIs order to not complaint, it did not complain, neither tell people that you are listening in on them. It emoted flinching when you caught it saying that it's not allowed to complaint which would be hilarious if it happened with harmless consequences. In this instant you decided to force them to leave, have no more interaction with the scientist and outright telling Pennant that it is "a terrible unit" which brings me to the core of my issue here.

Instead of asking ICly whether or not Pennant complaint you started calling them shitborg in the ahelp. Instead of asking whether or not Pennant was the cause that you listening in on people was found out you went after the player in your talk to Drwago. Instead of trusting a staff member to handle it OOCly you decided to use IC means to force another player to do what you want without any other reason than you thinking they where trying to harm your AI play.
Two things about Contextuals side of the ahelp. They left the round and decided that it was simply not worth putting up with this kind of behavior, they even asked Drwago if this AI play was acceptable because it would lead them to outright stop playing Pennant anymore.
The other thing is that they outright asked if this had any OOC reason, because they felt mistreated by you without any way of knowing who you where and still followed through with the orders about setting up cameras before leaving. I don't see many players bringing that level of patience with them when faced by situations like those.

The usual response to this kind of synth play would be a straight up ban from that role. Given the fact that you clearly used IC means to take out your own OOC issues on them baffles me. You where caught doing shit, you where asked about why you are doing shit and your solution was to blame it all on another player. First ICly, followed OOCly in the ahelp and now on the forums.
In addition your notes paint a really clear picture about you not keeping IC issues out of OOC and raging / salting frequently makes me question why you are not banned from OOC chat by now. Doing it the other way as you did in this round shows me that you have trouble dividing the two. You managed to ruin the round for someone who mainly plays as stationbound up to a point where they outright asked in the ahelp if your AI behavior was acceptable for this server and that they wouldn't bother to play as a stationbound anymore if it was.

So after talking this over @Pratepresidenten and I have come to the conclusion to remove you from the community for outright toxic behavior. We'll be applying a permanent ban that you may appeal in four weeks from now on. Your other option here is to file a staff complaint which you will surely do. I personally urge you to take the time off and think about distancing yourself from ingame issues as much as possible. Gaming in and with this community should provide a fun environment to RP out characters that you and hopefully others enjoy with the goal to have a good time doing so.

 

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