Antag interaction after capture

[Randy]

30 minutes into the round and Tom Johnson has been caught and stopped trying to emag into the bridge he tries to escape and lands himself in solitary where he is sedated and bucklecuffed and likely to be ignored for an hour and fifty minutes so he ghosts.

 

This is a huge missed opportunity and I think it goes against what antags are supposed to be they do not exist as something that is solely there to be defeated as soon as possible but rather something to spice things up.

Playing sec I see this all the time. A mystical blue robed person comes aboard who is able to bend space and time to their will and your first instict is to slap cuffs on them throw them in a cell and forget about them? Why not take them to science so they can do tests with the scientists or medical so they can use thier healing abilities and dab on the doctors or if they are particularly destructive loyalty implant them and have them work for mining? (Inb4 you cant loyalty implant a wiz)

Though im not saying sec players dont try to do exactly this but its somtimes so that departments are too apathetic to even want to have interactions with antags.

Same goes for traitor you would think that a megacorparation would care more about who is behind an attack. Also depending on a persons gimmick there could arive kataphracs who heard that a person was overly xenophobic against their race and would like to take them for questioning or judgment or if someone claims to be part of the syndicate they might send a negotiator (or even an assassin) to secure secrets etc. (Though i supose it would be better to pm someone before doing these things), or maybe even if a case is less obvious and the proof is curcumstantial send a legal representitive from the traitors home system to protect thier rights who in turn has to  interact with the liason or next aplicable command staff

It also seems unfair to have such a high standard for antags when whenever they try to interact after capture they just get straight up ignored. Why should I go through any sort of effort with a gimmick when no one wants to interact with me even in the slightest beyond quietly processing me and throwing me into communal where I am to be left alone and treated like someone who has the plague with only brisk akward sentences with the warden, maybe.

What im sugesting is mechanics and things that allow more options and events related to antags which seems like a win win

 

I thought id leave that up to the devs as I have no real idea what is hard and what is easy to implement but ill give some examples of things that might further interaction.

 

-Maybe a role whose a Job it is to handle after capture interaction with antags if  it is applicable, this can include various antag and mob related spawning powers. This role could serve as a game master of sorts and their agency could even allow them to spice things up if the rounds going to quiet and create a sort of narrative with a admins permission first.(this being a ooc)

 

-Antag specific lab gear which will allow the "study" of things like wizards and lings (even vampires) maybe something along the lines of a holodeck with dangerous mobs to test there combat and healing abilities as well as a chute for throwing in proto humans which come with the deck at round start. As well as a sort of microphone the scientists can interact with. I was thinking the different rooms could be seperated by danger as well as be copies of rooms in the aurora (libraries etc)

 

-A dociler implant which locks someones intent on help and makes them unable to fire weapons, this could be given to people who are just being shitters and attack sec every chance they get and are trying to escape with no hope and who can then be released.

 

-A syndicate sleeper agent role that is a purchase on the uplink which when bought activates someone whos objective it is to save the person who bought it if they get caught

 

There is a lot of interaction i feel that goes lost  and a round loses all its vigor once all antags are dealt with which is a shame. Though my ideas are just rough feel free to ad your own ideas to the mix.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Randy

[Nero07]

In my opinion, it's because a lot of antags are annoying shitters and the only reason they want to interact with you after capture is so they can escape and keep on being annoying shitters. Sure, there are exceptions, but generally it's not worth it wading through the mass to find the few.

Most wizards aren't going to quietly go to science to get poked at. As soon as he's out of paincrit/sedation, he's gonna teleport away and continue doing whatever he was doing and now you gotta Benny Hill him around the whole station again (And also get called an idiot for trusting them.). Same with ling or vamp.

Also, I'm not gonna go out of my way to investigate the deeper motivations and character story of the traitor who killed 3 people in broad daylight with a fireaxe. and there's not gonna be a solicitor, who argues the finer points of axe murdery with the command staff either.

You get exceptions sometimes, where it's rewarding to rp with them, but they are few and far between and it's very annoying when it goes wrong, so most people err on the side of caution.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Nero07

[Arrow768]

The suggestions and ideas section of the forum is for things that development team can implement. 

Could you please clarify what it is that you want us to implement. 

If you are seeking a discussion about security procedures then that topic can be moved to general. 

If you want to suggest a ic or ooc policy change then you should update the op with the policy you want to suggest and we can move that topic to policy suggestions. 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Not torture rp.

After being captured its very difficult to do much because the basis of our server is interaction as a character and being a hostage turns you into an escort quest npc.

Having a place where antags can sell captured crew, which ghosts them ans resets their respawn timer to like 10 minutes or whatever, could cycle prisoners out at the antag base and be left vague enough to be said to be sold on a slave market or just handed off to syndie HQ. The mercs or whoever couls get credits or items as payment. 

How to handle ooc consent from the victim to be removed from the round is another matter.

[Brutishcrab51]

Handling OOC consent is not an issue. Being sold in a way that mechanically removes you from the round is no different from being killed or blown up in a bombing. You consent to it by playing the server as a character.

Personally, I'd be down with it. But I don't know why this point was being brought up.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Its effectively being forced to cryo without chance of rescue while you're still alive.

[AmoryBlaine]

What's the suggestion exactly?

[Crozarius]

Counterpoint: Antagonists don't get bucklecuffed and sedated in solitary for no raisin. They get moved there following repeated attempts to escape, typically with them also attacking Security in the process. If an antagonist gets moved to solitary under sedation it's purely their own fault, and if Security just do it without provocation it should be ahelped.

[ben10083]

This 'suggestion' thread has been derailed as no suggestions are actually brought up by the creator. Please make a separate suggestion thread for your ideas.

[Randy]

On 09/12/2019 at 13:20, Arrow768 said:

The suggestions and ideas section of the forum is for things that development team can implement. 

Could you please clarify what it is that you want us to implement. 

If you are seeking a discussion about security procedures then that topic can be moved to general. 

If you want to suggest a ic or ooc policy change then you should update the op with the policy you want to suggest and we can move that topic to policy suggestions. 

sorry for taking so long to get back

I thought id leave that up to the devs as I have no real idea what is hard and what is easy to implement but ill give some examples of things that might further interaction.

 

Maybe a role whose a Job it is to handle after capture interaction with antags if  it is applicable, this can include various antag and mob related spawning powers. This role could serve as a game master of sorts and their agency could even allow them to spice things up if the rounds going to quiet and create a sort of narrative with a admins permission first.

 

Antag specific lab gear which will allow the "study" of things like wizards and lings

 

A dociler implant which locks someones intent on help and makes them unable to fire weapons, this could be given to people who are just being shitters and attack sec every chance they get and are trying to escape with no hope and who can then be released.

 

A syndicate sleeper agent role that is a purchase on the uplink which when bought activates someone whos objective it is to save the person who bought it if they get caught

 

[AmoryBlaine]

30 minutes ago, Randy said:

Maybe a role whose a Job it is to handle after capture interaction with antags if  it is applicable, this can include various antag and mob related spawning powers. This role could serve as a game master of sorts and their agency could even allow them to spice things up if the rounds going to quiet and create a sort of narrative with a admins permission first.

Detectives, Investigators, Researchers, and Psychologists all have the task of dealing with post-imprisonment/capture characters. It all depends on how the antag acts and if these characters are aboard, as to whether this happens or not.

30 minutes ago, Randy said:

Antag specific lab gear which will allow the "study" of things like wizards and lings

This is more mechanical, then actually roleplay intensive.

29 minutes ago, Randy said:

A dociler implant which locks someones intent on help and makes them unable to fire weapons, this could be given to people who are just being shitters and attack sec every chance they get and are trying to escape with no hope and who can then be released.

Or we could just sedate them heavily, or cyborg them, or put them in isolation.

30 minutes ago, Randy said:

A syndicate sleeper agent role that is a purchase on the uplink which when bought activates someone whos objective it is to save the person who bought it if they get caught

Uh, how about just pay someone to save you, and RP with them? Or don't get caught in the first place.

[Randy]

19 minutes ago, AmoryBlaine said:

Detectives, Investigators, Researchers, and Psychologists all have the task of dealing with post-imprisonment/capture characters. It all depends on how the antag acts and if these characters are aboard, as to whether this happens or not.

This is more mechanical, then actually roleplay intensive.

Or we could just sedate them heavily, or cyborg them, or put them in isolation.

Uh, how about just pay someone to save you, and RP with them? Or don't get caught in the first place.

eh,

"Detectives, Investigators, Researchers, and Psychologists all have the task of dealing with post-imprisonment/capture characters."

they dont though and what i was suggesting is more a ooc role than a ic one

"This is more mechanical, then actually roleplay intensive."

What im suggesting is mechanics that allow the study of things like lings and wizards hence generating rp, you dont go to medbay for the rp you go if you need them the rp is a part of it.

"Or we could just sedate them heavily, or cyborg them, or put them in isolation."

thatll sure to generate worlds of rp

"Uh, how about just pay someone to save you, and RP with them?"

if someone were to accept money then go into sec hack doors and kill officers that would be considered self antagging im pretty sure unless you mean other tators who likely isint going to stick out there necks for some rando

 "Or don't get caught in the first place."

 the good old git gud argument, as a traitor you are likely to get caught thats just how it is since the odds arent in your favor, if you have never gotten caught as a traitor because youre so good then good job but then more than likely you are unqualified to post here since this is a non issue for you.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Randy

[AmoryBlaine]

 

2 hours ago, Randy said:

they dont though and what i was suggesting is more a ooc role than a ic one

They do, and do so often when the situation allows for it. We don't really need a 'game master' that just sits back and decides when the round gets loud or not. That's up to antagonists, stationeers and staff.

2 hours ago, Randy said:

What im suggesting is mechanics that allow the study of things like lings and wizards hence generating rp, you dont go to medbay for the rp you go if you need them the rp is a part of it.

What does that mean? Currently when we capture lings the research and investigative staff talk to them at length if the ling is willing. Wizards already comply with RnD a fair amount of the time, and interact with them.

2 hours ago, Randy said:

thatll sure to generate worlds of rp

Quote

this could be given to people who are just being shitters and attack sec every chance they get and are trying to escape with no hope and who can then be released.

What RP is being generated in that instance in the first place? It's not everyone else's responsibility to entertain you if you're purposely being abrasive.

2 hours ago, Randy said:

if someone were to accept money then go into sec hack doors and kill officers that would be considered self antagging im pretty sure unless you mean other tators who likely isint going to stick out there necks for some rando

If someone were to accept money and try to get you out of Security, that'd be called roleplay. How they do so would be up to the individual character. Traitors are a diverse group, so yes, some may not blow their own cover for you. But have you considered trying to interact with them and gaining their trust? You seemingly want a role that exists to let you out of Security when you get caught just because. How about you roleplay instead.

2 hours ago, Randy said:

 the good old git gud argument, as a traitor you are likely to get caught thats just how it is since the odds arent in your favor, if you have never gotten caught as a traitor because youre so good then good job but then more than likely you are unqualified to post here since this is a non issue for you.

When I get caught as traitor, I don't immediately assume the round is over for me. I continue to roleplay with the characters available and depending on the circumstances of my capture that may just be taunting or being tightlipped or going so far as to try and convince them I did nothing wrong. Typically your ID isn't taken, nor is your PDA, or earpiece. Make use of these things, communicate. On top of that, you can literally just fight your way out if you try hard enough. There's tools everywhere in the brig.

How are you even getting caught, and for what reasons? Sometimes it's just bad luck, you got caught holding a gun. Sure, fair. Now you're fucked and you likely don't have much to tell investigations about, ahelp maybe you can get some extra leeway or something. Sometimes it's your own fault. If you were shooting people, and sec caught you- that's on you. Don't let that happen next time. Either plan for Security's response, or time it better.

Why is it an issue that you expended your chances in these instances of you intentionally creating the situations that got you caught in? Currently, as I already said, there are still avenues for RP even after that. You want a "get out of jail" free card, which is unreasonable. Research is already capable of looking into the weirder antags, but even so you aren't very specific on what you want.

 

[Randy]

1 hour ago, AmoryBlaine said:

 

They do, and do so often when the situation allows for it. We don't really need a 'game master' that just sits back and decides when the round gets loud or not. That's up to antagonists, stationeers and staff.

What does that mean? Currently when we capture lings the research and investigative staff talk to them at length if the ling is willing. Wizards already comply with RnD a fair amount of the time, and interact with them.

What RP is being generated in that instance in the first place? It's not everyone else's responsibility to entertain you if you're purposely being abrasive.

If someone were to accept money and try to get you out of Security, that'd be called roleplay. How they do so would be up to the individual character. Traitors are a diverse group, so yes, some may not blow their own cover for you. But have you considered trying to interact with them and gaining their trust? You seemingly want a role that exists to let you out of Security when you get caught just because. How about you roleplay instead.

When I get caught as traitor, I don't immediately assume the round is over for me. I continue to roleplay with the characters available and depending on the circumstances of my capture that may just be taunting or being tightlipped or going so far as to try and convince them I did nothing wrong. Typically your ID isn't taken, nor is your PDA, or earpiece. Make use of these things, communicate. On top of that, you can literally just fight your way out if you try hard enough. There's tools everywhere in the brig.

How are you even getting caught, and for what reasons? Sometimes it's just bad luck, you got caught holding a gun. Sure, fair. Now you're fucked and you likely don't have much to tell investigations about, ahelp maybe you can get some extra leeway or something. Sometimes it's your own fault. If you were shooting people, and sec caught you- that's on you. Don't let that happen next time. Either plan for Security's response, or time it better.

Why is it an issue that you expended your chances in these instances of you intentionally creating the situations that got you caught in? Currently, as I already said, there are still avenues for RP even after that. You want a "get out of jail" free card, which is unreasonable. Research is already capable of looking into the weirder antags, but even so you aren't very specific on what you want.

 

I dont feel like getting into a back and forth, you said your peace I said mine theres no need to debate about it

[Nantei]

11 hours ago, Randy said:

they dont though and what i was suggesting is more a ooc role than a ic one

As someone with detective round counts well into the triple digits, I can confirm that's false on my end. I've worked out official plea bargains with traitors before. I generally dislike leaving anyone completely alone in the brig, and it's also partially the Warden's job since they often sit there the whole time anyways.

Gonna also echo Arrow here. This seems very aimless. I would suggest formatting something a bit more concrete.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Nantei

[Randy]

58 minutes ago, Nantei said:

As someone with detective round counts well into the triple digits, I can confirm that's false on my end. I've worked out official plea bargains with traitors before. I generally dislike leaving anyone completely alone in the brig, and it's also partially the Warden's job since they often sit there the whole time anyways.

Gonna also echo Arrow here. This seems very aimless. I would suggest formatting something a bit more concrete.

Fair enough ill ad the suggestions made to arrows post to the main one.

Yeah.. though my idea was more to expand the options machanically

[Randy]

On 09/12/2019 at 13:20, Arrow768 said:

The suggestions and ideas section of the forum is for things that development team can implement. 

Could you please clarify what it is that you want us to implement. 

If you are seeking a discussion about security procedures then that topic can be moved to general. 

If you want to suggest a ic or ooc policy change then you should update the op with the policy you want to suggest and we can move that topic to policy suggestions. 

As far as the scientist lab gear goes i was thinking something along the lines of a holodeck with dangerous mobs to test there combat and healing abilities as well as a chute for throwing in proto humans which come with the deck at round start. As well as a sort of microphone the scientists can interact with. I was thinking the different rooms could be seperated by danger as well as be copies of rooms in the aurora (libraries etc)

[Sorokin7]

On 09/12/2019 at 12:14, Randy said:

30 minutes into the round and Tom Johnson has been caught and stopped trying to emag into the bridge he tries to escape and lands himself in solitary where he is sedated and bucklecuffed and likely to be ignored for an hour and fifty minutes so he ghosts.

 

This is a huge missed opportunity and I think it goes against what antags are supposed to be they do not exist as something that is solely there to be defeated as soon as possible but rather something to spice things up.

Playing sec I see this all the time. A mystical blue robed person comes aboard who is able to bend space and time to their will and your first instict is to slap cuffs on them throw them in a cell and forget about them? Why not take them to science so they can do tests with the scientists or medical so they can use thier healing abilities and dab on the doctors or if they are particularly destructive loyalty implant them and have them work for mining? (Inb4 you cant loyalty implant a wiz)

Though im not saying sec players dont try to do exactly this but its somtimes so that departments are too apathetic to even want to have interactions with antags.

Same goes for traitor you would think that a megacorparation would care more about who is behind an attack. Also depending on a persons gimmick there could arive kataphracs who heard that a person was overly xenophobic against their race and would like to take them for questioning or judgment or if someone claims to be part of the syndicate they might send a negotiator (or even an assassin) to secure secrets etc. (Though i supose it would be better to pm someone before doing these things), or maybe even if a case is less obvious and the proof is curcumstantial send a legal representitive from the traitors home system to protect thier rights who in turn has to  interact with the liason or next aplicable command staff

It also seems unfair to have such a high standard for antags when whenever they try to interact after capture they just get straight up ignored. Why should I go through any sort of effort with a gimmick when no one wants to interact with me even in the slightest beyond quietly processing me and throwing me into communal where I am to be left alone and treated like someone who has the plague with only brisk akward sentences with the warden, maybe.

What im sugesting is mechanics and things that allow more options and events related to antags which seems like a win win

 

I thought id leave that up to the devs as I have no real idea what is hard and what is easy to implement but ill give some examples of things that might further interaction.

 

-Maybe a role whose a Job it is to handle after capture interaction with antags if  it is applicable, this can include various antag and mob related spawning powers. This role could serve as a game master of sorts and their agency could even allow them to spice things up if the rounds going to quiet and create a sort of narrative with a admins permission first.(this being a ooc)

 

-Antag specific lab gear which will allow the "study" of things like wizards and lings (even vampires) maybe something along the lines of a holodeck with dangerous mobs to test there combat and healing abilities as well as a chute for throwing in proto humans which come with the deck at round start. As well as a sort of microphone the scientists can interact with. I was thinking the different rooms could be seperated by danger as well as be copies of rooms in the aurora (libraries etc)

 

-A dociler implant which locks someones intent on help and makes them unable to fire weapons, this could be given to people who are just being shitters and attack sec every chance they get and are trying to escape with no hope and who can then be released.

 

-A syndicate sleeper agent role that is a purchase on the uplink which when bought activates someone whos objective it is to save the person who bought it if they get caught

 

There is a lot of interaction i feel that goes lost  and a round loses all its vigor once all antags are dealt with which is a shame. Though my ideas are just rough feel free to ad your own ideas to the mix.

+1

Rounds tend to get stale quick if wiz,ling,vamp are caught this might make it a bit more interesting

 

that being said.. dociler implant sounds like a bad idea at all cos it more than likely might get overused and just become irritating

Edited December 14, 2019 by Sorokin7