Re-add Intent-based safety

[AmoryBlaine]

Re-add the intent based safety system to co-exist with the mechanical gun safety system.

Frankly, having the system based purely off the state of safety on/off, is weird since the safety system gets overrid with harm anyways, so it's not really doing what it should- not fire when set on.

CM's system has both intent and mechanical safeties, and they compliment each other quite well. I never misfire, because I never have the intent to fire unless I want to, or when I do swap to the intent to fire, I don't fire, because the mechanical system is on.

It doesn't hurt to adopt this system, since it benefits the user and has no downsides other than sorta covering the same thing, but differently.

Clicking the screen with help intent and a gun in hand should not lead to me shooting anyone- safety on, or off. It's the help intent.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

1 hour ago, AmoryBlaine said:

Clicking the screen with help intent and a gun in hand should not lead to me shooting anyone- safety on, or off. It's the help intent.

You are helping them die. >:)

I like the level of mistakes you can make with guns. It makes them prone to accidentally going off. Its very realistic. Guns are very dangerous! -1

[AmoryBlaine]

Just now, Marlon Phoenix said:

You are helping them die. >:)

I like the level of mistakes you can make with guns. It makes them prone to accidentally going off. Its very realistic. Guns are very dangerous! -1

Guns are very dangerous, which is why my INTENT should be taken into account. If I'm trying to HELP, I'm clearly not putting my finger on the trigger. But I fire anyways, which is stupid. If I want to cause HARM, I do have my finger on the trigger. That is all separate from whether or not the firearm is set to SAFE or not.

 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

One time i picked up a shotgun leaning against a truck to hand it to someone and i dropped it and it went off when the butt hit the ground but it missed us both. Someone else i know almost lost a foot when his gun went off and hit the soil really close to it and he was just walking on a bumpy path and some jostle or something or slipping into the finger guard during a jostle did it i dont remember.

 

People die in the USA all the time on "help intent" with their guns. An accident is an accident even if it wasnt your intent. Sometimes guns just go off man. I like the danger a gun poses when you hold it. Adds to their risk and realism. Just like irl forgetting your safety can kill or hurt someone. Still -1

Edited February 8, 2020 by Marlon Phoenix

[Forktress]

I support the change back because I played with the old mode on, which means you cannot shoot without harm intent on and clicking around the screen just makes your character turn, now we have it so if you try and have the safety on whenever you click you just get the CLICK, CLICK, CLICK sound for everyone to hear, which is stupid. The old mode was much more of a choice, help meant your finger was off the trigger, harm meant you were ready to shoot, it also allowed you to aim at someone without actually shooting them by keeping yourself in help, i.e. finger off the trigger, now if they move you also get the CLICK CLICK, which makes it sound like the gun is empty when it is not. All in all, I personally believe it was not something that was needed to be added and has actively made weapons worse, because now we have people just toggling safeties off as soon as they pick up a gun and can misfire on any intent. All of our other fighting systems use the intent system as they should, fists, melee weapons, ect. I don't understand why we needed an overt 'safety' system, when we had a much better system already in place.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Forktress

[AmoryBlaine]

2 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

One time i picked up a shotgun leaning against a truck to hand it to someone and i dropped it and it went off when the butt hit the ground but it missed us both. Someone else i know almost lost a foot when his gun went off and hit the soil really close to it and he was just walking on a bumpy path and some jostle or something or slipping into the finger guard during a jostle did it i dont remember.

 

People die in the USA all the time on "help intent" with their guns. An accident is an accident even if it wasnt your intent. Sometimes guns just go off man. I like the danger a gun poses when you hold it. Adds to their risk and realism. Just like irl forgetting your safety can kill or hurt someone. Still -1

This thread and what I am talking about is handling the firearm and the mechanical function of the safety. Your examples are entirely removed from the topic, I don't see how you can take me talking about the intent of the user in regards to where your finger is in relation to the trigger, and how that co-exists with whether or not the safety is on, to have any relation to accidentally dropping your gun, or accidentally pulling the trigger when you're walking along because neither of these are things which concern what I am talking about. What I am talking about is handling the firearm and the mechanical function of the safety co-existing, rather than having a faulty mechanical safety system that you can override with harm intent anyways.

 

9 minutes ago, Forktress said:

I support the change back because I played with the old mode on, which means you cannot shoot without harm intent on and clicking around the screen just makes your character turn, now we have it so if you try and have the safety on whenever you click you just get the CLICK, CLICK, CLICK sound for everyone to hear, which is stupid. The old mode was much more of a choice, help meant you're finger was off the trigger, harm meant you were ready to shoot, it also allowed you to aim at someone without actually shooting them by keeping yourself in help, i.e. finger off the trigger, now if they move you also get the CLICK CLICK, which makes it sound like the gun is empty when it is not. All in all, I personally believe it was not something that was needed to be added and has actively made weapons worse, because now we have people just toggling safeties off as soon as they pick up a gun and can misfire on any intent. All of our other fighting systems use the intent system as they should, fists, melee weapons, ect. I don't understand why we needed an overt 'safety' system, when we had a much better system already in place.

Same thing happened to me, was set to help, wanted to examine someone, gun goes off. It shouldn't work like that. Even with the safety on, like you said, instead of it just saying "You don't fire because the safety is on.", it goes CLICK CLICK CLICK, with a new chat line for each time you kick. Shift+click still works, but I don't see why I shouldn't be able to safely click the screen whenever help intent is set. We have intents for a reason.

[geeves]

9 hours ago, Forktress said:

it also allowed you to aim at someone without actually shooting them by keeping yourself in help

can't you just adjust the aim options to allow people to move

clicking on harm intent disables to safety, so you have a one click stopgap, i believe

[Carver]

So long as it's a preference toggle. I always kept it disabled (On here, on CM, absolutely everywhere) because help intent can be valid for fighting when you want to walk through people.

[Sheeplets]

Yes, please. This is a video game that's older than most of the people playing it with jank ass controls which only ever works as it should a good fifty percent of the time. Accidentally blowing a hole in the guy next to you because you clicked the window to bring it back to the front when you could add a redundant fail-safe against that which worked before just fine is bad design. Add both of the systems together, there's no reason not to.

[wowzewow]

In real life, we have mechanical gun safeties in place to stop misfires.

And there's a very real second safety installed on every gun.

 

It's called trigger discipline. In this case, help intent.

 

 

[AmoryBlaine]

@Myazaki Would you be against this idea?

[Myazaki]

5 hours ago, AmoryBlaine said:

@Myazaki Would you be against this idea?

I'm inclined to like the state of things as they are, but possibly because I am used to baystation. 

"Frankly, having the system based purely off the state of safety on/off, is weird since the safety system gets overrid with harm anyways, so it's not really doing what it should- not fire when set on."

Is kind of incorrect. The safety changes to off when you do this, you aren't actually firing while keeping the safety on. 

 

I would like people to be able to turn with clicks, on help, without making sound effects happen though. Will think on it. 

[AmoryBlaine]

Bump.

[Soultheif96]

I believe this was addressed already. The safety automatically turns off upon harm intent firing. Initial fire will disable it, the next firing will shoot. 

This would be fine as is since it makes you think before you shoot as the click is there like “Are you absolutely sure you want to engage this person with a weapon.” before the trigger is pulled. 

[Carver]

On 09/02/2020 at 16:40, Carver said:

So long as it's a preference toggle.

I stand by this.