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Azande

Alberyk

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Posted (edited)

BYOND Key: XanderDox
Staff BYOND Key: Alberyk
Game ID: Unknown
Reason for complaint: Permabanned me without sufficient cause.
Evidence/logs/etc:
image.png.403685b6e871501e83facb62354179e8.png
Additional remarks:

2. My History

Alberyk is correct, I do have notes and warnings regarding frontlining as Captain. In the heat of the moment when half of your security team has died or become injured, it is hard not to rush to help them with your armour and firearm. However, my warnings and notes are all from a year or more ago. In fact, I am fairly certain my last warning regarding frontlining as Captain was issued in 2018. These are far in the past, and do not reflect a consistent pattern of behaviour at all. I play SS13 and Aurora daily, and pardon for a few months that I take for breaks - I have played a thousand, if not thousands of rounds of Aurora over my lifetime, if there was a pattern of behaviour, I would have hundreds of notes on this specific issue from the last two years. To my knowledge, I do not.

3. Alberyk's False Information

Alberyk is wrong. Security was not fine, in fact - Security's warden was legless and in medical, a cadet turned into a mutineer and killed an officer and maimed the Warden, and the aforementioned officer was dead. This is where I first responded, I rushed to the scene of the active battle because security was losing, security losing against a murder cult mutiny = everyone dying, that is not a good thing. I'll also note, we were missing TWO OFFICER SLOTs at this time.

I responded in two other incidents, the aforementioned cadet broke free from medical, and all of security rushed to detain them. I tailed behind, stayed behind them, and as soon as I saw the cadet was putting up a good fight, I ducked into maintenance, and then retreated to a safe distance to watch.

In another incident, a dionae escaped, got a laser rifle, shot up the detective, and was shooting up officers. I went to assist, stood back until the dionae was properly down, and then I helped kill the nymphs.

As a possible fourth incident, I was walking BY the kitchen when it was reported the chefs were causing issues. An Officer began tustling with them, went down, and I think I didn't even end up firing a shot here  because the bartender stepped in and saved the officer. I just stood by and watched in case I was needed.

Security resources were stretched extremely thin this entire round. By the time Alb had messaged me, things were starting to calm down - yes. But that does not mean I can just abandon direct monitoring of the situation. I want to be clear, I did not abandon my command duties to frontline, I was sticking near and behind security in all incidents except those where security were actively dying (one incident), and I provided regular announcement updates to crew, to the other command member via command channel, had the AI update central and always sent an update fax myself.

I also helped deliver weapons to security a few times because the Warden was in Medical, and security needs weapons to fight a mutinous CULT.

Tl;dr, Alberyk's ban reason is just false, and he is either lying purposefully, or truly just did not have a good capture on the stability of the round or security at the time.

4. Regarding Captains

It is my personal belief that when the going gets tough, there is no reason for a captain with armour and a firearm, who is trained to use it, not to support their struggling security force against an active armed rebellion - especially when said Captain is taking the added precaution of remaining behind Security at a safe distance, and only engaging when officers start dying. I was not hit or harmed a single time this round, because I was careful, observant, and only engaged from a distance and only when absolutely required.

Sitting at the cameras in the bridge all rounds would have accomplished the following:

1. Security would not have gotten laser rifles or live magazines.
2. Officer Breacher would have been murdered.
3. Warden Black would have been murdered.
4. I would not have been able to directly interact or RP with anyone, just giving occasional directions via the channels (which I was already doing on the move).
5. CCIA might have gotten one extra fluff 'we're still fighting the mutiny' report, beyond the two provided.

Me directly engaging in the round by not hiding in the bridge the entire time did accomplish the following:

1. I got to roleplay dragging the very heavy Officer Breacher to robotics away from combat zones.
2. I got to directly interact and talk to other crew.
3. I was able to stay directly aware of most situations, while also staying at a safe distance from them.
4. I was able to dynamically support security by observing their ammunition and firearm needs, and thus provide direct and quick service to them.
5. I made myself a difficult, but still feasible target for the antagonists. It is not fun for a cultist, or any antag really, to have to breach through multiple doors, blastdoors, secure shutters and all just to reach a turtled Captain, whom by the time they are reached, probably has their OP Armour Hardsuit on, and their gun at the ready, if not prepared to teleport away. By being visible and out and about, I made myself a piece to be lost, and properly gave the antags an edge in their mission - while still considering my own safety, location and role. I believe this is a basic obligation of command - to be an accessible, but still difficult target, for antagnoists. Hiding in a bunker does NOT accomplish this.

The Goal of this Complaint

I wish to be un-permabanned, as I believe if I am in the wrong, this is still an extensive punishment, it should have been a whitelist strip.

If determined to be in the right, I want to be un-permabanned, and have my command whitelist restored.



 

Edited by Azande
Removing inflammatory things.

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1 minute ago, Azande said:

1. Alberyk's Own Unbanned Hypocritical Behaviour

Alberyk has, MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY times, armed himself and armed his civilian/cargo staff with weaponry, to fight antag groups. I have see this as crew, and I have see it as security, and I have seen it as his captain. I doubt he has ever been banned or warned for this, because sometimes, this kind of behaviour is required. I think it is incredibly convenient and hilarious for Alb to thus permanently ban me for this, and this is honestly the clearest evidence this is about removing me from the community due to a personal dislike.

Alberky told me when I raised this not to play 'whataboutism', but it is a god damn important argument to have. Administrator and Moderator characters should be examples of good conduct and rule adherent behaviour to players. If they are consistently breaking the rules, they should be removed from the staff team and banned as well, not allowed to continue to break the same rules they ban others for. I believe Alberky deserves a command whitelist strip for his own constant militarization of himself and his civilian staff during emergencies, and that staff must be held to the exact same rule standards as crew.

Whataboutism still. We already had a player complaint about this. The only times I had any kind of militia was when the situation was dire, when security was already down.

2 minutes ago, Azande said:

Alberyk is correct, I do have notes and warnings regarding frontlining as Captain. In the heat of the moment when half of your security team has died or become injured, it is hard not to rush to help them with your armour and firearm. However, my warnings and notes are all from a year or more ago. In fact, I am fairly certain my last warning regarding frontlining as Captain was issued in 2018. These are far in the past, and do not reflect a consistent pattern of behaviour at all. I play SS13 and Aurora daily, and pardon for a few months that I take for breaks - I have played a thousand, if not thousands of rounds of Aurora over my lifetime, if there was a pattern of behaviour, I would have hundreds of notes on this specific issue from the last two years. To my knowledge, I do not.

You have around three permas, several warnings and notes, a total of around 70-80. That is a lot, you should have been banned a long time ago, but you were not, likely due to the extreme leniency of whoever handled tickets about you.

3 minutes ago, Azande said:

3. Alberyk Lying in the Ban Reason

I can may forgive the fight at the chapel. But at the brig, both times, you went out of your way, being followed by Columbus, to answer security calls. At this point, those were singular cultists that were up against three or so security officers. At no point the situation was dire at all. You even tried to attack one of the cultists, that was already being gunned down, with the hos' dog. You were not going to rescue officers or anything at those case, you were going there with them to fight the cult as the captain.

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4 minutes ago, Alberyk said:

Whataboutism still. We already had a player complaint about this. The only times I had any kind of militia was when the situation was dire, when security was already down.

You have around three permas, several warnings and notes, a total of around 70-80. That is a lot, you should have been banned a long time ago, but you were not, likely due to the extreme leniency of whoever handled tickets about you.

I can may forgive the fight at the chapel. But at the brig, both times, you went out of your way, being followed by Columbus, to answer security calls. At this point, those were singular cultists that were up against three or so security officers. At no point the situation was dire at all. You even tried to attack one of the cultists, that was already being gunned down, with the hos' dog. You were not going to rescue officers or anything at those case, you were going there with them to fight the cult as the captain.

1. Yes, whataboutism, because you never get punished for your bad behaviour.

2. Yes, I do, I've also been playing for five years, and play a dozen or more rounds a day almost every day (except for month breaks) for those five years. That is thousands of rounds, many of which are stressful or late at night. I have successfully appealed or staff complainted away most of my bans or warnings, and 98% of my warnings are from before 2019 to my knowledge. I would love to know how many of my notes are from 2019 and 2020, if you can show that I have a lot in the last year, then I will be happy to admit I have had an issue changing, but I don't believe that is the case, at all.

3. Columbo was with me for personal protection, and it is perfectly safe for me to order him to attack from a distance. I can stand an entire screen away from someone and safely utilize columbo, and I had him for a majority of the round. If I wanted to fight cultist, I would've taken a laser rifle or carbine for myself the entire time. I stuck with my energy pistol, which I only had to charge once the entire round, inside of the security lobby. Once, ONE TIME. I fired that little amount of shots. This entire ban is based on you not perceiving the situation properly.

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1 hour ago, Azande said:

1. Yes, whataboutism, because you never get punished for your bad behaviour.

We already had a player complaint about this. The only times I had any kind of militia was when the situation was dire, when security was already down. There was no bad behavior atll my. This complaint is not about my behavior as a command player.

1 hour ago, Azande said:

2. Yes, I do, I've also been playing for five years, and play a dozen or more rounds a day almost every day (except for month breaks) for those five years. That is thousands of rounds, many of which are stressful or late at night. I have successfully appealed or staff complainted away most of my bans or warnings, and 98% of my warnings are from before 2019 to my knowledge. I would love to know how many of my notes are from 2019 and 2020, if you can show that I have a lot in the last year, then I will be happy to admit I have had an issue changing, but I don't believe that is the case, at all.

Having that many notes is not common at all, even among people that have been playing for years.

1 hour ago, Azande said:

3. Columbo was with me for personal protection, and it is perfectly safe for me to order him to attack from a distance. I can stand an entire screen away from someone and safely utilize columbo, and I had him for a majority of the round. If I wanted to fight cultist, I would've taken a laser rifle or carbine for myself the entire time. I stuck with my energy pistol, which I only had to charge once the entire round, inside of the security lobby. Once, ONE TIME. I fired that little amount of shots. This entire ban is based on you not perceiving the situation properly.

In the last encounter with the cultists, where the dionae was surrended by three or so people attacking it, you even drew your gun but could not reach it due to officers being on the way. From what I saw, you did all you could to also fight the cult alongside security as the captain. You were going after the calls yourself.

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Posted (edited)

I had my gun out because there was an active situation nearby, I only fired it when the dionae was disabled and it was time to put down the nymphs. Anytime I am near combat, I draw my gun and disable the safety because that is the safe and smart thing to do.

You claim that I was 'going after calls', but no, I was going TO calls, because I wanted to be present, and see what was happening, and feel involved in the game. I did not hunt the antags, and conducted no arrests myself. I literally let Security do everything, while I watched, except for the singular incident at the start of everything, where the cult suddenly began cutting down Security at the chapel. In that instance, I showed up, and opened fire with my pistol, and then a laser weapon from the downed security staff on the cultists actively mutilating two of these security dudes inside the chapel.

Edited by Azande

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If any sec members who played during the round read this please go ahead and post what happened from your perspective. Really hard for me to tell what actually happened during this round. 

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2 hours ago, Garnascus said:

If any sec members who played during the round read this please go ahead and post what happened from your perspective. Really hard for me to tell what actually happened during this round. 

Some character names, IDK their ckeys:

Andrew Robertson

Esmi Temirov

Travis Black

Breacher-something

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Posted (edited)

Just came across this:


I have a few points I want to add.


I was the Warden for that round, and I was around when things first started going down. The first big battle happened in the Chapel after a chase through the hallways, I did see the Captain but I did not see them do much more than witness what was happening. In the Chapel three officers went down, one ended up dying in medical. Breacher was the other, they went down and I went back in to try and save them, at that point a cadet turned on us and took me out, with the cultist chopping my leg off. So so far we had a :Warden, two officers and a cadet removed from active duty. I was unconscious for most of the following events. After waking up without a leg and being sent on my way in a wheelchair, I went to the Brig to get an update, and I did see the Captain in the Brig, but they didn't seem to be doing much; However, that was before the huge battle. After visiting the Brig I went to get a new leg. I got a new leg, and realized I had brain damage, so I went BACK to surgery. I spent the rest of the shift in Surgery.


So all-in-all security had no Warden, was down at least one officer and we didn't have a full manifest anyway. I don't have too much to add to the Captain frontlining, but the few instances I saw them, they were just watching and not interfering, though I was out of the loop for 80% of the round

 

Edited by TravistyRavage

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Prate and I will take this complaint from Garnascus as he is now too busy to continue with it. Give us a few days to sort through everything.

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On 20/05/2020 at 04:08, Azande said:

If I wanted to fight cultist, I would've taken a laser rifle or carbine for myself the entire time. 

We've taken a look at the logs and we noticed that you shot laser rifle beams a lot. You shot two apparitions and a cultist with laser rifle beams. In fact you do not seem to ever have fired an energy pistol shot at a human, only at a diona nymph. What's up with that?

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As many know by this point, I play Breacher G-031. My memory on the entire matter is hazy. I can say with confidence that the captain acted in the best interest of the crew during fighting by the chapel. From my memory they also didn't really interfere in the diona takedown. I wasn't present for anything else.

I was involved in a long duel with an apparition and its summoner. One officer was already maimed and the warden was coming with the cadet. I eventually got EMP'd through a wall and was making a slow and tedious fighring withdrawal when the cadet turned on us. The warden and myself were very injured and the captain shot with impunity through a window. They only entered when the baddies were dead.

As for the brig, Shurik and I killed the Diona and the cap ordered the nymphs dead. We eventually gave up because it was taking forever and I locked them in a locker and took them to xenbio with help of RD. I don't recall the cap actually being there in the brig, but they may just be because they were not in my way.

I will say again that memory of the incident is hazy but I've answered to the best of my ability.

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Hi, I was Officer Temirov's player. My memory of the round isn't perfect, since it was a while ago. I was wounded pretty early into the round and didn't see much, but I did see the incident at the chapel, and as a ghost I saw some of the fight with the Diona.

In the chapel, security had chased the cultists into the back room of the chapel. The captain entered with 1 or 2 carbines, and went up to the window in the back and fired 3-4 shots, before dropping the carbine next to me and going for rifles. I couldn't see if they used the rifles at all, as I was separated from them pretty soon after they returned with the rifles.

During the fight against the Diona, they were standing within 5 tiles of the Diona, with a gun drawn, and it seemed like they were only hanging back and not fighting because they were blocked by security officers. As soon as the Diona was killed, I believe they ran ahead of security and started killing the nymphs.

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3 hours ago, MattAtlas said:

We've taken a look at the logs and we noticed that you shot laser rifle beams a lot. You shot two apparitions and a cultist with laser rifle beams. In fact you do not seem to ever have fired an energy pistol shot at a human, only at a diona nymph. What's up with that?

This was the Chapel incident, which Alberyk himself has cleared. The Chapel was the first incident, where all of security had responded and essentially failed. An officer (Breacher) was seriously injured and basically incapable of fighting anymore, and Warden Black had been rendered unconscious and dying (and also dropped his weapon beside his body. This is when it was revealed that not only were we fighting armed sword wielders, but that a member of security, a cadet, had actually betrayed us and began attacking security during their assault on the sword wielders. When I arrived, I tossed a gun to another sec member and began opening fire into the chapel because two of my sec team were inside being murdered.

Regarding the Diona matter, I had my gun drawn because I was near an active incident. It is safer to be prepared when near such a situation than to to caught with your pants down. I allowed security to handle it, but there was no reason for me not to partake in the nymph putting-downs because:

1. If I am going to order officers to do something ethically questionable, I damn well am going to sit myself on the same boat beside them.

2. There was no longer a danger and it was safe to involve myself. Nymphs can suck blood, but that's essentially it.

There was no running ahead of security, as the dionae was surrounded, I ran beside security and gave the order to begin terminating the nymphs.

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Hewwo frens, it is I, Pwat.

Keeping this short, Matt and I have come to the conclusion that there wasnt really any issue here beyond the direct intervention at the chapel, which was deemed fine. Whats being said regarding engagements and restraint for the rest of the round is backed up by logs.

So all in all, the ban will be lifted.

 

Complaint will be closed in about a day unless there are further concerns.

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53 minutes ago, Pratepresidenten said:

Hewwo frens, it is I, Pwat.

Keeping this short, Matt and I have come to the conclusion that there wasnt really any issue here beyond the direct intervention at the chapel, which was deemed fine. Whats being said regarding engagements and restraint for the rest of the round is backed up by logs.

So all in all, the ban will be lifted.

 

Complaint will be closed in about a day unless there are further concerns.

Thank you.

As a note, following someone deciding it was okay to attempt to harass Alberyk in discord in response to this complaint without knowing me, my situation or Alberyk, I have edited out some inflammatory things I said in regards to Alb, that were frankly said because I was emotional and upset.

 

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