Security QoL changes i guess, and one for all Departments

[Valwyn]

1 . Make it so you can attach the Security webbing/drop pouches together with the holsters on the jumpsuit.

Using Holsters is pretty much a must. Mandatory if you will. soo why do we even have the drop pouches or webbing? i dont think i ever saw someone using them instead of a holster.

Also security have alot of shit to carry, the Number 2 suggestion will go more about that, soo the drop pouches and webbing would come in hand, but imo don't worth the loss of holster.

Dunno why they would ever be exclusive to each other too, they are different.

Someone suggested you can do it on bay.

 

2. Make it so you Can Place the Gas Mask and Helmet on the security Webbing/Drop Pouches.

Those two itens consume plenty of space on your bag, and depending on your loadout you might be with not much slots left. after i gear up was a sec officer i always have 1 tear gas grenade, gas mask and helmet on my bag, because i cant place them anywhere else (Security Belt is full, and Officer armor vest is also full.) i had a few occasions where i ran out of space, either i was carrying guns to other officers and could not fit everything on my bag, soo i had to run around with two guns on my hands or my bag was too full to carry the evidences, or the boxes of hyperzine the HOS requested, soo i had to do more runs to deliver all of them, among a few other small talks where i needed space.

In real life you see Military/Police carrying gas mask  or helmets attached to they vest/belt. it sounds pretty silly having to open a bag to get both of them out, ''oh boy! time to rummage my bag filled with other shit to grab the gas mask and security helmet!'' why?

Suggestion 1 and 2  and 4 go really well together.

 

3. Make the Hailer... more usable?

I Have never ever saw someone use it. along with the problem that would be one more item to occupy space.

You have to place them on your hand and the activate it, and the moments you will need it will be... quite heated ones, soo having to go trough that hassle for it.. its.. bad.

Make you able to put them was accessory and make it to be activated like on /TG/ like flashlights do, with a icon on the top left of the screen.

 

4. Why are the Black webbing vest and black drop pouches randomized in the security locker?

It seems that one locker will get the drop pouches and the other 3 the black webbing. if the unlucky officer that get the drop poucher one wants a black webbing, then what? he will have to waste points in the loadout? all officers would have to waste points on the loadout afraid to not get the the drop pouches locker?

with suggestion 1 and 2 on, making them more usable, more people will use it and such.. both of them should be in all the lockers.

I like loadout, i like my points...it adds flavor and fun stuff..  and having to waste point for for department gear is sad. not gonna lie, i'am one of those persons that are dire in need of points on the loadout. Alot of officers have to waste points to get the holster they want, because theres only the hip ones on the locker.

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This Following Suggestion was given by @ChevyChevron (Chevy#0349) : 

Thank him for that.

5. Departmental Loadout Itens should not cost any loadout points.

Holsters, ALL THE FACTION ITENS , Departament Uniforms,  webbing, drop pouches ect...

Just like the tool-belt, alt is 0 points for all the (Enginering and Roboticist)

Was i said before and i repeat : I like loadout, i like my points...it adds flavor and fun stuff..  and having to waste point for for department gear is sad. not gonna lie, i'am one of those persons that are dire in need of points on the loadout. Alot of officers have to waste points to get the holster they want, because theres only the hip ones on the locker.

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Valwyn
typo fix.

[wowzewow]

1. The reason why you can't both have drop pouches and holster is for balance reasons. Also, they don't give you any maluses like slowdown for essentially giving yourself more firepower.

2. That's...just not realistic. Keep in mind that drop pouches are to keep things in the same size like ammo magazines. I feel like this is just an excuse to circumvent wasting backpack space without seeming powergamey by wearing a helmet and gasmask all the time.

3. Yeah, that's... actually a good idea. 

4 and 5. Making departmental loadout stuff free kind of defeats the purpose of the loadout points, no? 

[Doc]

Realistically, belts are where most police/military groups keep their gasmasks in scenarios where they expect to need it, but are not immediately using it. But, realism on the server comes last, after lore, then mechanics. And mechanics say that full gas-based immunity warrants taking up more inventory space than a small item-size slot. Sorry, but it's probably not going to happen. As for 4, there are sets of webbings and drop pouches in the clothing locker in the equipment room. The random gen'd one in your locker isn't really consequential.

[Valwyn]

46 minutes ago, wowzewow said:

1. The reason why you can't both have drop pouches and holster is for balance reasons. Also, they don't give you any maluses like slowdown for essentially giving yourself more firepower.

2. That's...just not realistic. Keep in mind that drop pouches are to keep things in the same size like ammo magazines. I feel like this is just an excuse to circumvent wasting backpack space without seeming powergamey by wearing a helmet and gasmask all the time.

3. Yeah, that's... actually a good idea. 

4 and 5. Making departmental loadout stuff free kind of defeats the purpose of the loadout points, no? 

1. True, i Can see people abusing that.

2, Not Necessary, might be for the helmet, but the gas mask is fine. in the military theres somenthing called Gas Mask Pouch, they are in the leg, just like ours are in-game and also, the sprite of our drop pouches are exact like those, the sprite of our drop pouches is way bigger than ammo pouches, you can also fit a crowbar inside of it in-game. they are drop pouches not ammo pouches, some would use the gas mask attached to the belt/vest.

that said, someone said that in bay you can clip your helmet to your armor, makes sense to me they do that in military, how about somenthing like that for the gas mask and helmet? ''Easiest'' solution without fancy coding stuff  or porting from bay, would be to make the two slots in the armor vest to allow Gas mask and Helmet.

4 . 5 the purpose? is waste on  gear that should be free provided by the corporation?, leaving me with scrap points to actually spent it on flavor and cool stuff and personal stuff? no sir.

Edited November 7, 2020 by Valwyn
typo fix.

[Valwyn]

26 minutes ago, Doc said:

Realistically, belts are where most police/military groups keep their gasmasks in scenarios where they expect to need it, but are not immediately using it. But, realism on the server comes last, after lore, then mechanics. And mechanics say that full gas-based immunity warrants taking up more inventory space than a small item-size slot. Sorry, but it's probably not going to happen. As for 4, there are sets of webbings and drop pouches in the clothing locker in the equipment room. The random gen'd one in your locker isn't really consequential.

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>Realistically, belts are where most police/military groups keep their gasmasks in scenarios where they expect to need it, but are not immediately using it.

>>Or Gas mask pouches.

 

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>And mechanics say that full gas-based immunity warrants taking up more inventory space than a small item-size slot.

But does not have to be like this? thats the point of suggestions?

>>that said, someone said that in bay you can clip your helmet to your armor, makes sense to me they do that in military, how about somenthing like that for the gas mask and helmet? ''Easiest'' solution without fancy coding stuff or porting from bay, would be to make the two slots in the armor vest to allow Gas mask and Helmet, alas the mechanic  would now allow it.

 

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>there are sets of webbings and drop pouches in the clothing locker in the equipment room

There are not. only the ones in the officer lockers, thus my point remains for suggestion 4.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Valwyn

[Doc]

15 minutes ago, Valwyn said:

But does not have to be like this? thats the point of suggestions?

>>that said, someone said that in bay you can clip your helmet to your armor, makes sense to me they do that in military, how about somenthing like that for the gas mask and helmet? ''Easiest'' solution without fancy coding stuff or porting from bay, would be to make the two slots in the armor vest to allow Gas mask and Helmet, alas the mechanic  would now allow it.

Sorry, let me restate. Not necessarily 'mechanics,' but balance. An armor vest, helmet, and gasmask all take up a great deal of space in your backpack/satchel, half or more than half, if I recall correctly. This is by design. You're intended to have to commit your inventory space to carrying all of that protective equipment on you at once. If you want more inventory space, you need to weigh what protection you want to ditch. Allowing security to just put two of those things on their belts in exchange for tiny items like police tape, pepperspray, flash, a tear-gas grenade, or whatever else, effectively makes it so inventory space is not a concern. But it should be, if you want to constantly have access to full protection to gasses and a full armor kit at all times. Some officers do make that exchange, and don't carry their helmets, their masks, and a rare few don't even carry any of those three things until they need to go back and get them. That's a choice that should have to be made.

 

20 minutes ago, Valwyn said:

There are not. only the ones in the officer lockers

Whups. Thinking of the holsters, not the webbings/pouches. My bad. I wouldn't be opposed to just throwing them into the clothing locker in question, though.

[Zundy]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

Whups. Thinking of the holsters, not the webbings/pouches. My bad. I wouldn't be opposed to just throwing them into the clothing locker in question, though.

I feel like the actually used to be? Anyways what Doc said. It's a balance thing.

 

The idea of the halers being a togglable accesory though is really good. As it stands it's usually not worth the effort to use in the times when you might where as just strapping it to your jumpsuit would be great.

[Snoopy11]

I think 1 can be solved by making the disruptors fit in the security belt.

[wowzewow]

Here's the thing with gas mask pouch though, as you said, it's used mainly for the military.

You could argue for gas mask pouches for ERTs, but here, for Aurora Security who are more akin to like, glorified armed security guards, it really isn't feasible

 

Anyway, loadout points are specifically put so you can't powergame by giving yourself a thousand and one accessories to stuff the entire armory in your pockets.

Hyperbole aside, loadout points are there for balance reasons, and they won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Scheveningen]

I don't think allowing webbings + holsters at the same time is a bad thing. Antagonists can make use of that too and they probably need the inventory space a hell of a lot more for mechanical reasons than security does. This isn't to say sec should be shafted on this issue, but in general having webbings and holsters be allowed to be attached together would be perfectly fine imo.

What I don't agree on is everything else. Only national guard in the US really sling their gas masks at their belts/webbing, so military belts or bust really. Don't agree on the hailer point, you can choose not to use it if you want to just use asteriks to throw your voice instead. Drop pouch/webbing randomization doesn't really matter since you can impact your choice of webbing directly in the loadout.

The loadout costs points because it should. Sec/eng/med/sci/supply should all be ensuring they're actually abiding uniform code, and having 0 pt cost for everything means they can go to town on tactikewl nonsense and otherwise make them difficult to distinguish.

[Valwyn]

On 07/11/2020 at 06:52, Doc said:

Sorry, let me restate. Not necessarily 'mechanics,' but balance. An armor vest, helmet, and gasmask all take up a great deal of space in your backpack/satchel, half or more than half, if I recall correctly. This is by design. You're intended to have to commit your inventory space to carrying all of that protective equipment on you at once. If you want more inventory space, you need to weigh what protection you want to ditch. Allowing security to just put two of those things on their belts in exchange for tiny items like police tape, pepperspray, flash, a tear-gas grenade, or whatever else, effectively makes it so inventory space is not a concern. But it should be, if you want to constantly have access to full protection to gasses and a full armor kit at all times. Some officers do make that exchange, and don't carry their helmets, their masks, and a rare few don't even carry any of those three things until they need to go back and get them. That's a choice that should have to be made.

 

Whups. Thinking of the holsters, not the webbings/pouches. My bad. I wouldn't be opposed to just throwing them into the clothing locker in question, though.

You prove a good point,

 

On 07/11/2020 at 10:55, wowzewow said:

Here's the thing with gas mask pouch though, as you said, it's used mainly for the military.

You could argue for gas mask pouches for ERTs, but here, for Aurora Security who are more akin to like, glorified armed security guards, it really isn't feasible

 

Anyway, loadout points are specifically put so you can't powergame by giving yourself a thousand and one accessories to stuff the entire armory in your pockets.

Hyperbole aside, loadout points are there for balance reasons, and they won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

 

Quote

 

Anyway, loadout points are specifically put so you can't powergame by giving yourself a thousand and one accessories to stuff the entire armory in your pockets.

Hyperbole aside, loadout points are there for balance reasons, and they won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

 

I dont mean remove all the loadout points, just department  loadout itens, things that are labelled on the loadout and you can only get from the loadout if are working on that department,

Then what about the most basic? theres no powergaming whatsoever, its just the basic of basic, things that should be provided by the corporations.

Like faction itens, its just jumpsuits, beret armband, cap.. all uniform/jumpsuit and beret/headwear that are related to departament on the loadout. i dont see a powergaming issue with those at all. they are basic clothing. ex: uniforms, (Investigations) ,  uniforms, (Security Officer) , beret, engie-orange , beret, medical, those itens are basic clothing related to they departament.

 

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You could argue for gas mask pouches for ERTs, but here, for Aurora Security who are more akin to like, glorified armed security guards, it really isn't feasible

Good point.

 

On 07/11/2020 at 11:41, Scheveningen said:

I don't think allowing webbings + holsters at the same time is a bad thing. Antagonists can make use of that too and they probably need the inventory space a hell of a lot more for mechanical reasons than security does. This isn't to say sec should be shafted on this issue, but in general having webbings and holsters be allowed to be attached together would be perfectly fine imo.

What I don't agree on is everything else. Only national guard in the US really sling their gas masks at their belts/webbing, so military belts or bust really. Don't agree on the hailer point, you can choose not to use it if you want to just use asteriks to throw your voice instead. Drop pouch/webbing randomization doesn't really matter since you can impact your choice of webbing directly in the loadout.

The loadout costs points because it should. Sec/eng/med/sci/supply should all be ensuring they're actually abiding uniform code, and having 0 pt cost for everything means they can go to town on tactikewl nonsense and otherwise make them difficult to distinguish.

Quote

Don't agree on the hailer point, you can choose not to use it if you want to just use asteriks to throw your voice instead. Drop pouch/webbing randomization doesn't really matter since you can impact your choice of webbing directly in the loadout.

Then just stay using the asterisk? one thing does not exclude the other, there was no mention of such. just makes one easier to use for those that want it.

 

Quote

The loadout costs points because it should. Sec/eng/med/sci/supply should all be ensuring they're actually abiding uniform code, and having 0 pt cost for everything means they can go to town on tactikewl nonsense and otherwise make them difficult to distinguish.

i think you @Scheveningen and @wowzewow , are confusing what i said. how does getting a thigh holster for 0 points will give distinguish problems? (we only have hip ones in the locker)

its only for LABELLED departament itens.

>> I dont mean remove all the loadout points, just department  loadout itens cost, things that are labelled on the loadout and you can only get from the loadout if are working on that department,

Then what about the most basic? theres no powergaming whatsoever, its just the basic of basic, things that should be provided by the corporations.

Like faction itens, its just jumpsuits, beret armband, cap.. all uniform/jumpsuit and beret/headwear that are related to departament on the loadout. i dont see a powergaming issue with those at all. they are basic clothing. ex: uniforms, (Investigations) ,  uniforms, (Security Officer) , beret, engie-orange , beret, medical, those itens are basic clothing related to they departament.

ex : 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Valwyn

[Valwyn]

On 07/11/2020 at 07:24, Snoopy11 said:

I think 1 can be solved by making the disruptors fit in the security belt.

@Schwann#4814 Suggested this , thank him for such good suggestion.

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I’m not on the forum at the moment but why not port Baystation12’s belt holsters? They can hold all the security items you need and work with the holster hotkey.

 

That would work really well, cops use holster on they belt, would make sense.

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Valwyn

[ChevyChevron]

I think that specifically the different uniforms should be free.  Presumably, they're provided by NanoTrasen (or whatever company you work for) and are something you're expected to wear.  I don't think things like holsters/cameras/lunchboxes or what have you should necessarily be free, but I think that specific uniforms really ought to be.  At the very least, maybe make the contractor uniforms (since contractors are required to be in their company uniform at all times) free so that you don't get a point tax for playing a non NanoTrasen character.

[Carver]

My only point against 1 is that it'd require webbing to be accessed via a right click verb, which would arguably be a clumsy nerf to webbing used alone in other circumstances. Not everyone uses hotkey mode for holsters, and I'd especially despise if holsters were nerfed by needing a verb or hotkey.

2: neutral, you already carry one or the other on a vest via suit slot. Webbing seems to operate via pockets and not 'open space' per backpacks and satchels, so I understand why the helmet and mask wouldn't fit.

3: I always would forget I even had a hailer, thing is entirely forgettable to even have. Would like to see a version of other server hailers where it's built into their masks with an easy use verb, but instead build it into either armour (helmets) or weapons (baton+disruptor).

4: Sure. I don't see any particular reason not to offer both. Not like people hand the things out freely, so it's not exactly a buff.

5: Why not.