General Complaint - Security Discord Members

[Guest Menown]

BYOND Key: Menown - Not Involved, but a reporting agent for people who’d rather remain private due to fear of backlash.

Game ID: N/A - Incident occurred within the security discord, with numerous Aurora Staff and players.

Player Byond Key/Character name: 

DanseMacabre

SleepyGem

VeteranGary

Numerous Unknowns: A lot of people aren’t using their actual ckeys on the discord, so. There is some footwork needed that I lack the capacity to.

Staff involved:

Reported to Alberyk.

Offending staff: Hepatica, DeadLantern, MattAtlas.

Reason for complaint: 

Let me preface this by saying that while there have been comments directed toward me, I am uninvolved in this complaint, I personally don’t give a fuck about it due to my present ban from the server and the general acceptance there is toward it against me. I am largely doing this as a favor to some friends and a desire to see things done better, because this ain’t it chief. 

Throughout its inception, the Security Discord has been a source of aptly named discourse, largely directed toward those the members have deemed adverse to their concepts of what’s acceptable. Namely, Lukebr2, Tomixcomics - The player of Mako Wu, Sam Orleens, played by Thelon, one named Evie, and others I have probably skipped over due to the outright massive collection of shit I had to read.

The most outright troubling thing, for me, is the behavior that a number of staff have enacted upon Lukebr2, who I have been informed is very much so a minor. There have been staff revealing what Luke does on his reddit account and used it as a source of open mocking against him. There have been numerous statements toward Luke calling him an incel, a loser, and other forms of derisive statements. He’s found himself at the liberty of numerous members of the staff openly mocking the way he roleplays his characters, in mean and hateful ways.

There have been remarks where members expressed their desires to see Mako Wu removed, derision toward characters calling them pitybait, and other forms of hateful remarks. Characters have been called mentally challenged, people expressed their emplacement on the related manifest that the server as a whole partakes in, and there are numerous incidents of general dog-piling on characters in the server itself.

The logs I’m presenting are related to most of the events in question. The rest are either somewhere on the discord itself, or hearsay. I don’t have access to the discord and had to read through around 800k lines of conversation to gather what I have so far. I am tired.

While I’m aware that the discord is separate from the server, there have been incidents in the past where off-server conduct influenced action on server, namely with Cassie. I however also feel this kind of conduct from staff itself toward the playerbase is incredibly off-putting, and the players in question have found themselves alienated from the server as a whole due to what they’ve been subjected to, even without being there due to people reporting it to them.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation?: No, I’m banned.

Approximate Date/Time: N/A - Widespread Behavior

Logs Provided:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Forgive any errors in spoilers, I wish these were collapsible in the editor. 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Menown
Fixed a broken spoiler. Can't have that.

[Kintsugi]

The only thing that could vaguely be interpreted as being me saying something in poor form was a joke taken out of context about the appearance of a character, which was a comment made in passing. I see no reason why I am mentioned in this frankly bizarre player complaint, (which is in my opinion unactionable to begin with.), especially as apparently one of the most egregious offenders, apparently so egregious that I am at the top of the list. I have nothing to say beyond "I didn't do anything wrong, and don't know why I was mentioned at all", and would like to leave it at that.

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by DanseMacabre

[Guest Menown]

1 minute ago, DanseMacabre said:

especially as apparently one of the most egregious offenders, apparently so egregious that I am at the top of the list.

I will make an addendum to this that there is no ulterior motive to the emplacement of the mentioned parties. I simply listed relevant names as I saw them in the logs I was presented. If you'd prefer I can move you toward the bottom of the list if that's distressing you.

[MattAtlas]

This post originally noted how I wasn't making fun of Luke, but upon further review of my own posts I can't really conclude otherwise. I apologise and expect punishment for it. However, I will still keep the part of the post here that comments on how I wasn't the one that was involved in finding or posting the information at first.

 Here is where he was "outed", and I will censor his reddit username, because I did not even look at his reddit user page, I just took what Paradox said at face value. I will, however, note that Luke regularly posts on the SS13 subreddit with an username that is very clearly identifiable to him, so there wasn't any actual doxxing or similar - he simply posted a screenshot of himself playing Aurora on that subreddit.

Edited April 6, 2021 by MattAtlas

[ThelonTV]

9 minutes ago, MattAtlas said:

I shouldn't even be mentioned in this complaint. The two points you make against me that I was making fun of Luke and that I outed him are both wrong. You took an out of context screenshot and spun it to make it look like I was talking mad shit, when it's in fact the complete opposite - I was telling Hepa that he's only a misguided young person rather than what she was implying he is.

That still leaves you posting the comment "He is on record for saying shit like" *what he said*, which is subjectively speaking still talking "mad shit". Repost or not.

16 minutes ago, MattAtlas said:

I will, however, note that Luke regularly posts on the SS13 subreddit with an username that is very clearly identifiable to him

Why even post this, instead of simply saying "There was no doxxing involved?

[MattAtlas]

15 minutes ago, ThelonTV said:

That still leaves you posting the comment "He is on record for saying shit like" *what he said*, which is subjectively speaking still talking "mad shit". Repost or not.

I disagree. My intentions were clearly not to make fun of him, as you can even see later down the line that Hepatica backs down on what she was saying because of what I said.

15 minutes ago, ThelonTV said:

Why even post this, instead of simply saying "There was no doxxing involved?

Because this way I cannot be accused of digging up an obscure reddit account. Not sure what you're trying to say here.

Edited April 6, 2021 by MattAtlas

[ThelonTV]

1 minute ago, MattAtlas said:

Hepatica backs down on what she was saying because of what I said.

I fail to see that in the two screenshots you provided, is what I'm saying.

[MattAtlas]

14 minutes ago, ThelonTV said:

I fail to see that in the two screenshots you provided, is what I'm saying.

I asked someone for the logs later down and I realized that the second point I made was wrong and I rushed it out without properly looking at what I was actually saying that day. I'll openly admit that I fucked up there. I'll edit my original post.

Edited April 6, 2021 by MattAtlas

[Guest Menown]

1 hour ago, MattAtlas said:

However, I will still keep the part of the post here that comments on how I wasn't the one that was involved in finding or posting the information at first.

 Here is where he was "outed", and I will censor his reddit username

Fair enough. The logs I was given only go back to December of 2019 so I can't claim you outted him initially given I didn't have the relevant logs.

Please understand I don't have easy access to the information, with what I do have requiring significant time to process and search for relevancy. I do apologise for the confusion regarding that and the resulting claim.

[lukebr2]

there is a lot to adress here so i will do that in parts

1.everything i posted on reddit was with shit and giggles in mind i do not condone male rape or anything of the matter

2.it saddens me that some people have resorted to talk shit aboult others in a discord server that they dont have access instead of talking to the person directly wicht could had prevented a lot of the problems we are seeing here today

3.according to my reflexions and other people comments i belive my charaters are unique in almost all things except their sexuality wicht i am not even sure why i made then lesbians in the first place and as i said earlier if you have suggestions,complaints or any of the matter please say so either in the feedback thread of in a DM/pinged comment so i can improve then to keep the quality of my RP in a acceptble place 

4.while it is true that i am underage,i am not a child and in fact i am in my late teens not that this fact is of importance to hepatica last time i checked

5.i am very dissapointed with certain staff members actions (or unaction) that allowed some players to break rule 2 of the discord server (dont be a dick) on a daily basis in a quasi official server and thoses same staff members goals were to create and maintain this amazing comunity in a way for it to be great for everyone, a goal that some staff have apparently forgotten

(sorry for the grammar since english is not my first lenguage and i woke up a hour ago) 

[Arrow768]

This will be handled by @Garnascus in the evening.

Make sure to account for the rules of this forum when considering if you should post or not.

[lukebr2]

small aditions to my comment:

6 hours ago, SinfulBehaviors said:

Does their outlook on Luke's characters cause them to be super toxic to them? I've not seen evidence of that. Have their actions caused him to feel unwelcome in this community?

while i am generaly welcoming to all kinds of feedback a lot of the things said in the logs are unescessary and just straight up offensive, i try my best to not follow stereotypes and i have not done anything that could had insulted the lgbt+ community especialy the lesbian one  at any time.

and i woulnt say that it is toxic but it does cause me to feel very unwelcomed since the insults were made by a staff member 

 

Quote

Side note, Luke's age is kind of irrelevant here, considering nothing in the logs mentions his age, nor do I believe his age is common knowledge. Talking about bullying a kid doesn't work when no one knows they're a kid.

as said before i am not a kid and nor wish to be treated like one with that said i dont think it is "bullying a kid" but more of  overly agressive comments on my characters and my internet behavior,wicht since last time i checked didnt actualy mattered for any of then. but i have to agree with the fact that my age is not important on this 

 

Quote

This post originally noted how I wasn't making fun of Luke, but upon further review of my own posts I can't really conclude otherwise. I apologise and expect punishment for it. However, I will still keep the part of the post here that comments on how I wasn't the one that was involved in finding or posting the information at first.

 Here is where he was "outed", and I will censor his reddit username, because I did not even look at his reddit user page, I just took what Paradox said at face value. I will, however, note that Luke regularly posts on the SS13 subreddit with an username that is very clearly identifiable to him, so there wasn't any actual doxxing or similar - he simply posted a screenshot of himself playing Aurora on that subreddit.

I dont consider that i was "outed" since until this complaint my reddit account was linked in my discord, however i said before and i will say again that all comments were made to provoke chaos and/or fights.

and this wouldnt be a issue if some people hadnt felt the need to only not scroll down all my comments i made but also not just not contacting me for explanation beforehand but also sharing thoses comments without context and used them to make offensive remarks aboult myself, including just straight up insults with whatever objective thoses people even had if they didnt did it for the simple need to attack others.

 

i would like to hear @Hepatica and the other members of security discord that have something against me in this complaint  or if they would prefer it they can do what they should had done before and directly mensage me on discord (Lukebr2#0064) with their concerns and feedbacks so that i can maybe actualy change if needed since they cleary have a lot of it to share with me : ) 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by lukebr2
removed snakebitten mentions due to discovery that she is banned

[DeadLantern]

Menown,

I read this post a day ago, and I've took the remainder of my freetime yesterday thinking about this post. After resting, this is my response:

I recognize that I was rude and offensive in the logs shown, especially to lukebr. Mako Wu, Sam Chalegre, these characters are routinely mocked in the security discord. There are others too, but I won't bring them up.

Regardless, the facts show me (and many others) hurting and slinging insults at another's IC and OOC conduct. No matter my opinions on them OOCly or ICly, I, and everyone else, should not be saying these things about these people. It's both cowardly and toxic. If I had a problem with either his IC or OOC conduct, I should have interfaced with the proper channels (by making a complaint or talking with the offender).

I really was making fun of lukebr, and I am guilty of doing that to other characters as well. With these logs being brought up, I find it near-incorrigible that me, as a staff member, would even do this. This isn't what makes Aurora a good community with good RP. It fills it with toxicity, vitriolic hatred towards people with "bad" roleplay while refusing to bring it up to the players in question or complaint them if it comes to that.

I, or any other staff member, should definitely not do this. I'm ashamed of my conduct on the security discord; I am sincerely sorry. If there is a punishment, I expect to bear the full brunt of it.

Community members should also be held responsible. Imagine if dozens of people conspired to mock you endlessly in their own discord, and you suddenly find the truth out? Does it make Aurora a place to grow and roleplay? Does it make it a better place? Resorting to the excuse of "jokes" and "satire" is incredibly babyish. It's just bullying, there's no way around it. If you want to have the right to mock players while simultaneously refusing to do anything about it, you can be a coward in DMs or in private discords.

The people with a problem with lukebr's roleplay should bring it up to him, not endlessly laugh at him (especially when he's a minor, and naturally unused to roleplay). They should make a complaint if they think it suitable.

There have been discussions about deleting the security discord. I would like to point out that the security discord recently started a moderation system. I think a change of rules would be sufficient enough to stop this problem (or, at least, draw it away from the public's eye). I recognize that some of the moderators/admins actually participated in the mockery--I hope they see the error in their ways and how that does not make for a healthy playerbase. 

Deleting the discord will just allow the offenders to make a private discord where they can do the same thing. The people accused should step up and apologize and stop their behavior on that discord. My behavior was incredibly childish and I apologize for it.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by DeadLantern

[DeadLantern]

Also, I would like to add, the security discord and its people are not mocking people every second of the day. Most of the time, it's "normal" conversation (as normal as we can be) and generally without harm. It's a small section of its actions, and it should not be treated as a constant hate machine. It's its own community.

Edited April 6, 2021 by DeadLantern

[ThelonTV]

1 hour ago, Susan said:

It's literally just some jokes and mockery, which I know everyone posting in this complaint has engaged in themselves - hypocritical to suggest otherwise.

 

16 hours ago, Menown said:

 

I fail to see in what world this is a "funny joke" or a good side-jab mocking-wise.

 

It's also nice to see the unwillingness of some people to settle conflict or the "wasn't me"-mentality. Sure it's easier to just "not like" people you (presumably) never interacted with on an OOC level, but it's certainly not what makes a good community. Hence the "invisible wall" around security and some of player base, aswell as the migration of many people to new servers.

Edited April 6, 2021 by ThelonTV
Inserted my own 2 cents

[ThelonTV]

3 minutes ago, Susan said:

What susan said and my last post.

Q.e.d.

4 minutes ago, Susan said:

Nevermind the times I've seen you in deadchat shitting on security players from the privacy of the in-round observer discourse, Thelon.

I rarelly stick around for d-chat other than to observe my friends, and may have only straight up observed 2 or 3 times. I'd happily admit to being a hypocrit, should you tell me about what I did/said other than maybe saying "sec bad". Until then I'm just seeing this as a baseless accusation, aswell as stiring the flames. This'll be my last reply to the topic for now.

[Alberyk]

I will lock this since everyone thinks that being in the discord at some point gives them the right to talk about this. The Resolution to this complaint will come later today.

[Alberyk]

Okay, now let us break down this in parts:

-this did not happen in an affiliated or official discord, our jurisdiction is limited here. Unless it is something severe, like doxing or planning a raid, we won't usually take action. If this behavior spills into our discords or in the server, necessary action will be taken.

- staff behavior is another case. The staff in those screenshoots had their behavior relayed to the people responsible for each team. Staff should not trashtalking people even in private discords.

-the security discord stopped being an affiliated discord since we got the department hub and we are not interested in being involved in its administration. Since it is not affiliated with us, we advice against advertisement of it in our official channels, because that is against the main discord rules. Also, the reported behavior was brought to the security discord administration.

[Alberyk]

Okay, to close this.

Hepatica's behavior was brought to lancer and he talked to them about this.

Deadlantern said that stuff before he was hired in the staff team, I don't that it is really that severe to warrant any kind of retroactive action.

In matt's case, I will warn him to don't engage in this type of conversation, but it is also kinda strange that what he said six months ago is only being brought to our attention now.

I will close this soon while I remove all the opinions and overall useless posts in this complaint. If you see staff misbehaving somewhere, please report them to their superiors or make a staff complaint.