Desven Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 I understand this will be controversial. However, there are some arguments to be made and this policy suggestion isn't out of the blue. Here's my reasoning: In our lore, neither MMIs or posis can just change databases (what would be considered, OOCly, jobhopping): Spoiler An IPC, probably a thousand times more expensive than a stationbound, and way more advanced in many regards, cannot simply wake up one day and go from surgeon to engineer. This is made with OOC implications in mind, but the same should apply for stationbounds. There is no justification in lore for a positronic to be suddenly able to make such changes just because of their cyborg status. As it currently stands, most borgs are effectively jack of all trade: Spoiler This may be a harsher, personal opinion, however, it's true that many borgs aren't that great when they fill up a job. It has an OOC reasoning, too. As players, we tend to know more about one department than others. A borg may be great at doing research, but once put to set up the engine or prepare the pharmacy they will struggle, because even OOC the player hasn't delved into those areas. It ultimately can prove to be counterproductive to the round, as some will place expectations on the borg when the player would be more suited to fill an apprentice role if playing any other species. Despite their limitations, borgs can get powergamey even as non-antag: Spoiler There's a reason why sec borgs were removed. It's easy to abuse mechanics as a borg, especially with their access. Sometimes it's not even the borg player, but others requesting the borg to do a million things at once because of their special status. Even though being an HRP server dissipates many of the issues with borgs as a role in general, some of the problems borgs have in other servers leak here too because of their, frankly unnecessary, all access. I would suggest it to be replaced to departamental access, with the same level a head of staff would get (could be minus the bridge, I don't know). As for with Security, I'm frankly not sure how much access they should get, if any. Bonus: emphasize borgs are more akin to an assistant/helper and not a replacement of actual roles. Not sure how this could be made, but I feel some choose borg over any character because they feel it can be regular job + AA or ability to fulfill all of the departmental needs. I don't think that's what the cyborgs purpose is intended for, but correct me if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment
Pratepresidenten Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 IPCs are specialized and usually custom built, unlike borgs which tends to be mass produced. Borgs are lawed, and as they're so aptly named, stationbounds. They are bound to the station to the point where they explode if you try to take them away from it. They are also lawed to protect its assigned station and to assist its crew, and they cant really fulfill this if their access is gimped. If you've seen the manifest when a borg is present, they're listed as equipment, which is what they are. As for their vast knowledge of everything, its usually explained that they're linked with the station and its database or something of the sort. They're pmuch a mouthy wikipedia with legs and grippers. However, I am 100% onboard that there are expectations to borgs when going into a department, and I have them aswell. If you do not know a department, pick an apprentice role, not borg. 1 hour ago, Desven said: Bonus: emphasize borgs are more akin to an assistant/helper and not a replacement of actual roles. Not sure how this could be made, but I feel some choose borg over any character because they feel it can be regular job + AA or ability to fulfill all of the departmental needs. I don't think that's what the cyborgs purpose is intended for, but correct me if I'm wrong. They're a utility role meant to fill out where a department is lacking, not to overstep and do the job of station crew. You can ahelp if a borg is stepping on toes and doing their job for them. Personally, I play borg to dick around with my job, and there is less roleplay expectation when playing the role as you're treated as useful equipment instead of a person. Im very much against gimping them in this manner. It seems like a very unnecessary change. Quote Link to comment
Lordnesh Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 I think the reason why Borgs can jobhop, and IPC's can't, is because IPC's don't have the same wireless transmission capabilities as borgs. This is why borgs have access to Binary, and IPC's have to use a gimped version of it called EAL. So, in a sense the borg doesn't really know what it's doing, but merely accessing relevant databases remotely. Spoiler However, with the specialized construction of positronic brains as they are seen in IPCs, integration with long-ranged wireless devices and interpretation of higher-end and complex software is mostly impossible. This is largely due to the fact that positronics housed in IPCs are relatively limited in terms of data transfer capacity and memory, making constant wireless links highly unnecessary, and internal battery-powered communications of similar nature simply left out in manufacturing. Quote Link to comment
Doxxmedearly Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Voting for Dismissal. Prate summed up the reasons pretty well, and I agree that it seems unnecessary. They're servants of the station, literally; they're bound to it and restricted with laws. They're listed and treated as equipment, tools to ensure it runs smoothly, and there isn't a good reason ICly to restrict the access. Additionally, I don't feel like there's really that many problems with their all-access OOCly, aside from maybe being swamped with requests, which is just sometimes something that happens in rounds. In my experience, most egregious abuse of this is so few and far-between that moderation can handle it like any other problematic player. Quote Link to comment
Lmwevil Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 This is a pretty bad idea, borgs also exist to help fill in slots when there's skeleton pop with no surgeon, then can go engineering or mining or whatever once a surgeon wakes up. Ignoring any lore reasons I just think that I prefer borgs as they are, and if they do powergamey shit just ahelp them like usual. Quote Link to comment
The Stryker Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Doxx and Lordnesh got most of my points down, I agree that a stationbound can overreach and positronic brains have difficulty absorbing job-level information without the aid of experience, it really is a gameplay and stationbound robot/cyborg thing. Quote Link to comment
Eple Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Seems like a good idea in theory, but i don't agree in practise. And as Prate said, theyr pretty much equipment. Tho i would like to see Sec boots re-added, and i wouldnt mind borgs haveing a 4 second remote door opening \ closeing timer, so they cant instant open or close remotely.. (infact i wish most doors would at least count as open as soon as door opening animation is started to let gasses trough, so people would be more realistic when it comes to useing inflateables, rather than just winging it by walking trough and closeing before air that would go at speed of sound gets anywhere.. Quote Link to comment
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