[NBT] Bridge Crew Minimum Age and Requirements.

[Boggle08]

I was recommended to start up this thread asking about this in Serious_discussion, but I think now is a good time to think about the minimum age and job/background requirements for the role, and what we might want to see from that.

Mechanically speaking, the role uses HoP age and whitelist restrictions as a placeholder, So that means the races that can't be HoP cannot be bridge crew, and they cannot be younger than 30. Personally, I think 25 would be a good minimum requirement, for what the role does and it's junior relation to the other command roles.

While we're here, it's also worth discussing the background or educational experience necessary to acquire this position. What races should be permitted into the role, and under what clauses or restrictions? Personally, I would like to see every whitelist be able to access and play the role in some way.

Given their control over the ship and access to important command subsystems, the SCC would likely want to vet the bridge crew in a similar way we do for regular command. Some examples of the kind of restrictions I'm thinking about would be to bar Viax and openly Shrkh Dionae from the role, as they would be too compromised for the job. Vaurca are in an awkward position on this in general, because there's no learning role for them to sit in while they're being processed by the Avowal system. The way I see it, they will either need a mandatory background requirement, or not be up there at all.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Boggle08

[Sparky_hotdog]

Personally I agree on the 25 thing. For most command members, I see this as an IC experience thing (I might be wrong about the intention), but I don't think that applies with Bridge Crew. Sure they should definitely know how to fly, but they aren't coordinating lesser pilots, so don't need to be more experienced than anyone else. I hope that makes sense.

Also, I'd argue a command level age restriction is a little weird given that, at least on the manifest, they aren't even actually command, they're civilian crew. It's not a big deal, but they definitely don't have the IC authority (In my understanding at least) that the rest of command do, and so I don't think letting a younger character in would be terrible.

As for the whitelists, I'm not certain. The only two whitelists I have, and therefore have some grounds for my input on, are Tajara and IPC, both of which are already allowed. Which one's aren't? I can see the arguement that maybe Dionae are too slow, but I wouldn't be surprised seeing any other race in the job.

[ClemTheDuck]

I’m a supporter of lowering the age to 25, it keeps it in line with other similar jobs with elevated responsibility. BC is not command nor is it in a field that requires a lot and a lot of study like science and surgery. As it is it just feels a bit awkward with the age

 

 

[stev]

Big agree on the age, 25 seems a lot more sensible to me. Wouldn't mind seeing it go even younger to be honest, since the only main duty is piloting and that doesn't seem like an especially 'senior' duty.

[Boggle08]

46 minutes ago, Sparky_hotdog said:

As for the whitelists, I'm not certain. The only two whitelists I have, and therefore have some grounds for my input on, are Tajara and IPC, both of which are already allowed. Which one's aren't? I can see the arguement that maybe Dionae are too slow, but I wouldn't be surprised seeing any other race in the job.

Dionae would be mentally quick or fit enough for the role, depending on the mind type. Most of the moving you're going to be doing is back and forth between the artemis and the bridge, so It's not a role that needs to run everywhere to be efficient. What is a concern relative to the species is when it comes to the bridge being under siege: Every member of Bridge staff is issued a mini-disruptor, and expected to hold out and defend the bridge in the event of a siege or takeover. This is something I could see a Gera do, This is something I could not see a Coeus do.

[Boggle08]

Also, it did not come to me at the time, but  the Job Accessibility Requirements is another thing we should consider in this thread:

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Job_Accessibility_Requirements

IMO, bridge pilots will need their eyesight, their hearing, and their ability to communicate over radio for this position. They are pilots, after all.

[Montyfatcat]

Big support, the 30+ rule feels like a knee jerk reaction to some unmentioned non-issue. 30 seems like a really arbitrary age and doesn't line up with any real world parallels at all, especially since this raises lore issues such as "what is the average age of a navy personnel in lore?" and "if it takes so long to train people for large ships, why would a corporation not automate as much as possible?"

[WickedCybs]

I wouldn't want it any lower than twenty five if a change did happen, but I don't mind thirty. The important thing is that the bridge crew aren't just pilots, that's one of their various duties. They're trusted enough to be expedition leaders, use the command programs, get a gun. Vetted enough to control the very expensive ship.  

Rather than the age, I'd like if bridge crew were labelled under command instead of civilian even if they aren't given any authority while on the Horizon. They're very linked to Command.

Edited February 11, 2022 by WickedCybs

[Alberyk]

39 minutes ago, Montyfatcat said:

Big support, the 30+ rule feels like a knee jerk reaction to some unmentioned non-issue. 30 seems like a really arbitrary age and doesn't line up with any real world parallels at all, especially since this raises lore issues such as "what is the average age of a navy personnel in lore?" and "if it takes so long to train people for large ships, why would a corporation not automate as much as possible?"

Already explained that this was set before we had any kind of "made up issue". I also don't care about irl, we don't have space pilots or whatever. They have access to the command channel, the entire bridge, and much more. They are not only pilots. If it was a pilot only job, they would have a lower age and no bridge access or comms.

[Montyfatcat]

4 minutes ago, Alberyk said:

They are not only pilots. If it was a pilot only job, they would have a lower age and no bridge access or comms.

Then what else do they do?

[Alberyk]

Just now, Montyfatcat said:

Then what else do they do?

Coordinate with command staff, they lead expeditions in lieu of command staff, and main the bridge and its consoles.

[Kintsugi]

As funny as 30 as a requirement for bridge crew is, I don't think it's strictly necessary. 25 I think would still be reasonable. Do I think it's a major issue at the same time? No.

[Montyfatcat]

6 minutes ago, Alberyk said:

Coordinate with command staff

About what? Don't command staff already co-ordinate with one another via command channel?

7 minutes ago, Alberyk said:

they lead expeditions in lieu of command staff

I've mostly heard dissatisfaction on this front from the bridge crew players I've spoken to cause they're forced to play cabbie and wait for their fare to get back

8 minutes ago, Alberyk said:

main the bridge and its consoles.

still doesn't explain the 30+ rule, again console manning isn't some hyper-qualified position

[ClemTheDuck]

2 minutes ago, DanseMacabre said:

As funny as 30 as a requirement for bridge crew is, I don't think it's strictly necessary. 25 I think would still be reasonable. Do I think it's a major issue at the same time? No.

Not a major issue, but i think just in general would be a neat change.

7 minutes ago, Alberyk said:

Coordinate with command staff, they lead expeditions in lieu of command staff, and main the bridge and its consoles.

I get this, personally i think having the age restriction down at 25 would kinda hammer home the idea of them being assistant to command rather than "command but not commant". They have more responsibility than other crew but they are also not expected to be in full command.

[Triogenix]

1 hour ago, WickedCybs said:

I wouldn't want it any lower than twenty five if a change did happen, but I don't mind thirty. The important thing is that the bridge crew aren't just pilots, that's one of their various duties. They're trusted enough to be expedition leaders, use the command programs, get a gun. Vetted enough to control the very expensive ship. 

I have to echo this, were the role just piloting and very little else, I could see the age being much lower, somewhere around 18 even. But with all the other duties, especially leading expeditions in lieu of command, having it at 30(requiring them to be older then the doctors and others they will be leading), makes a lot more sense in my mind. I wouldn't really mind 25, but I fail to see the issue people have with 30. It seems to be a cosmetic issue.

Also, all the educational stuff, disability stuff and others will be put up on the wiki when the full job guide is written up, which will probably happen soonish.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Triogenix

[Alberyk]

40 minutes ago, Montyfatcat said:

About what? Don't command staff already co-ordinate with one another via command channel?

With, not between command. They can, as someone pointed, act as assistant/helpers for the command staff due to bridge access.

40 minutes ago, Montyfatcat said:

I've mostly heard dissatisfaction on this front from the bridge crew players I've spoken to cause they're forced to play cabbie and wait for their fare to get back

That is part of their job. If people don't want to get expedition don't join as this job.

Anyway, we will likely add some extra mechanics for them depending on how coding goes. Also, everything be in the wiki before we launch. Including qualifications and etc. Everything is subject to be changed.

[Tristan63]

Age is good and I don't think they warrant a whitelist.

[NewOriginalSchwann]

I think 25 is a reasonable age. but going lower than that isn't a great idea. I also think they should be something other than civilian due to their importance, so why not add in a new manifest category named "command support," or something like that? You could put the bridge officers and service manager into it.

[OffRoad99]

The core issue is that bridge assistants' requirements are still generic and inaccurate. When I think of a bridge crewman I think of an experienced contractor who flies a medium-sized ship, is in charge of the Bridge if/when senior Command personnel is not present, handles the announcements, flies the other shuttles, leads expeditions and are more-or-less responsible of the day-to-day activities of the ship. Not to mention, they're all armed.
In my opinion, the 30 years requirement is alright, as they're meant to have considerable responsibilities and training to back it up. It can be further justified by giving them extra requirements like a bachelor's degree and at least three years (or more) of experience as an airline/commercial/military cruiser pilot.

 

[Sparky_hotdog]

So over the last two weekends I've played between 8 and 10 rounds of Bridge Crew (I can't remember exactly). I thought I'd quickly share how that experience has compared to the expected responsibilities mentioned above.

First of all, when it comes to coordinating with command, I've seen none of this. Maybe this is an adjustment thing, with command not being used to having up to three extra people on their comms they can get to assist them, but for the most part the fact we share command comms has often felt like a burden, rather than a privilege. If there is any kind of situation going on, it's often been my understanding that we're meant to stay quiet and let actual command deal with it.

Personally I consider manning most of the bridge consoles to come with the pilot part of the job. The bridge has 5 consoles, one of which is the messaging server one (Which I have no idea how to work.), three of which are for flying the Horizon (Piloting), and the last of which is the main command console. And sure, the BC have access to use the announcements, and I'm guessing from what I've seen above the code changing program too, but most of the time I and others treated these as emergency permissions, once again letting actual command use these instead.

Being in charge of the bridge sounds like an appropriate and big responsibility, until you consider who or what are they supposed to be in charge of? They are the lowest ranking crew with access to the bridge, and I've given my thoughts on the consoles already.

When it comes to leading expeditions, I might be missing something that is actually defined as an expedition, but while the few times I've ferried science to an asteroid have been fairly different from each other, none of them felt like I was in charge. Usually science took the lead, and that felt a lot more natural to me. After all, most of the time they are the department most involved in these expeditions.

As a final note, the wiki's blurb for the Bridge Crew as shown above in OffRoad's post literally says "which means you fly and work sensors. That's pretty much it." with the entire box making no/minimal reference to most of the above responsibilities. Personally, and I may be wrong here, I feel like most people play BC because they want to be a pilot, either of the Horizon or the Intrepid. And if that's the case, and maybe this is just my style of DMing bleeding through, I say let people be pilots with minimal strings attached.

[Boggle08]

7 hours ago, Sparky_hotdog said:

So over the last two weekends I've played between 8 and 10 rounds of Bridge Crew (I can't remember exactly). I thought I'd quickly share how that experience has compared to the expected responsibilities mentioned above.

First of all, when it comes to coordinating with command, I've seen none of this. Maybe this is an adjustment thing, with command not being used to having up to three extra people on their comms they can get to assist them, but for the most part the fact we share command comms has often felt like a burden, rather than a privilege. If there is any kind of situation going on, it's often been my understanding that we're meant to stay quiet and let actual command deal with it.

Personally I consider manning most of the bridge consoles to come with the pilot part of the job. The bridge has 5 consoles, one of which is the messaging server one (Which I have no idea how to work.), three of which are for flying the Horizon (Piloting), and the last of which is the main command console. And sure, the BC have access to use the announcements, and I'm guessing from what I've seen above the code changing program too, but most of the time I and others treated these as emergency permissions, once again letting actual command use these instead.

Being in charge of the bridge sounds like an appropriate and big responsibility, until you consider who or what are they supposed to be in charge of? They are the lowest ranking crew with access to the bridge, and I've given my thoughts on the consoles already.

When it comes to leading expeditions, I might be missing something that is actually defined as an expedition, but while the few times I've ferried science to an asteroid have been fairly different from each other, none of them felt like I was in charge. Usually science took the lead, and that felt a lot more natural to me. After all, most of the time they are the department most involved in these expeditions.

As a final note, the wiki's blurb for the Bridge Crew as shown above in OffRoad's post literally says "which means you fly and work sensors. That's pretty much it." with the entire box making no/minimal reference to most of the above responsibilities. Personally, and I may be wrong here, I feel like most people play BC because they want to be a pilot, either of the Horizon or the Intrepid. And if that's the case, and maybe this is just my style of DMing bleeding through, I say let people be pilots with minimal strings attached.

The things you've described about the bridge crew are pretty much the reasons why I feel like 25 is a good number for them: They are extremely subordinate in their responsibilities, they operate under maximum oversight, and they are expected not to project any kind of authority on station; The one area where they do carry some kind of authority, in away sites, is often delegated. This is because the miners and Xenarchs that typically depart already know what to do well enough to act autonomously. They have the keys to the bus, but when it comes to the actual minutia of what people are touching down on the asteroid for, The pilot usually stays with the ship, and takes initiative only when it comes to matters relating to it's operation. On paper, they have a lot to be accountable for. In practice, these are clerks that know how to fly.