Clarify that marooning should only be used for uncontainable and/or uncooperating antags

[Dreamix]

I believe the crew (mostly command) is too quick to maroon antags (intruders, boarders, criminals, whatever). I have seen people pushing for marooning on occasions like, a surrendering single burglar after the other has died, or a single-murder-committing traitor, or even once a push for marooning for "corporate espionage" after an antag stole some stuff or something.

As well, very rarely I see the marooned people to be given actual supplies to survive in the wild, or see the marooned be left on some desolate rock, or even on carp-infested derelicts. Or even I have seen people consider throwing a guy out of the airlock to be considered proper "marooning".


"But they just killed a person or something. They deserve nothing."
IC, Central Command would surely love to get useful information out of that Einstein Engines spy, or to give that Glorsh Sympathizer to the Federation, or whatever other criminal. Can't happen if that person is just left to die. Marooning is also effectively capital punishment the way it is done usually, and it would be bad press if some random murderer or whatever is marooned, instead of being brought to proper court and whatever.

OOC, it is however removing the antag from the round, especially if it happens very quick. Sure, they might outrobust security during transport or whatever, but like, still. The intention of marooning is to remove the antag and leave them alone somewhere.




I think, marooning should only be reserved for antags who are uncontainable and/or uncooperative. For example:
- weird fucked up monster hybrid that literally cannot be killed
- a guy with red glowing eyes that has escaped the brig twice already somehow
- someone who calls themselves a "wizard", and can teleport to places at will
- guy who has already killed five people, including half of security, and intends on killing more
- etc, you get the idea

Anyone else, surrendering, cooperative, or even uncooperative but contained successfully, should be held in the brig or whatever, until transferred to proper authorities. Makes it so roleplay can happen, investigators can interrogate, crew can interact, whatever, even if the round is close to ending.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Dreamix

[Carver]

I quite like marooning, well above the alternative of cyborgification, but if they're not being provided adequate supplies that is a significant issue. I'd rather like to see a dedicated locker or two somewhere containing standardized supplies for marooned prisoners - softsuit, a filled oxygen tank, simple medical supplies, some basic rations and survival tools perhaps.

[Roostercat]

I agree with this. Marooning has essentially become the norm when it comes to captured antagonists. It's the new HuT. Stranding every criminal on a barren rock doesn't really make a lot of sense IC or OOCly, so restricting it to uncontainable things makes sense. Stranding the cultist who has teleported out of the brig four times makes sense. Stranding the remaining merc after they got swacked does not.

[Gem]

i made a PR that adds two marooning equipment lockers to security to ensure that marooned personnel have their own gear.
https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/14630

[Bear]

There are 5 instances in which someone may be marooned. In all of these situations, cyborgification is also allowed. In all of these instances an antag has escalated where being killed in combat is also allowed save for corporate espionage. I don't really believe it needs much changing as it is in line with the other round ending punishments.

 

As the majority of the command playerbase takes a fairly weak stance towards cyborgification, which arguably should happen more, this is a fine alternative.

 

Remember:

Executions are not allowed by regulations. Station security nor command should be doing any executions. The maximum possible penalty for major infractions is marooning or cyborgification.

This essentially is a reminder that these are maximum punishments when there is absolutely no question of what has occured. This is for the mercenary who went guns blazing killing multiple people. This is for the vampire or ling who ate the captain.

The command team has a very final decision in this. But it, as stated earlier, should be reserved for the very final stages of escalation as you are ending a player's round.

[Scheveningen]

I do think marooning should essentially be considered the equivalent of capital punishment. Not in a "literally illegal" sense but moreso that it should be an absolute last resort.

But frankly, lings, technomancers and other wacky antagonists are excluded from this rule. If the antag is at least funny/entertaining to engage with they shouldn't be marooned. Marooning should be an OOC device to literally banish a character from a wider roleplay locale.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Scheveningen

[Dreamix]

 

6 hours ago, Gem said:

i made a PR that adds two marooning equipment lockers to security to ensure that marooned personnel have their own gear.
https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/14630

I'd prefer not. Only makes marooning to be more streamlined, and will probably make it more common, not less. Marooning should reserved for the rarest occasions, and not a common enough occurrence that there are two dedicated lockers with marooning gear in the very central location of the brig.

 

5 hours ago, Bear said:

(...)

This essentially is a reminder that these are maximum punishments when there is absolutely no question of what has occured. This is for the mercenary who went guns blazing killing multiple people. This is for the vampire or ling who ate the captain.

The command team has a very final decision in this. But it, as stated earlier, should be reserved for the very final stages of escalation as you are ending a player's round.

The whole point of this suggestion is that (I believe) marooning is too common, and used too often, when HuT should be done instead.
It is used against vampire or ling who have escaped the brig many times already, but also for surrendering or captured antags who are cooperating and can be fairly easily contained.
Imagine if we marooned the remaining SFA soldier from the last event, instead of keeping them.

 

[Gromnax]

I wholeheartedly disagree with this idea. Hold until Transfer is the death of the round for the held antag. I rarely see anyone trying to interact with held prisonners, and they often can not even ghost. At least, when marooned, you can try to survive or respawn as a 3rd party/ghost role.

 

Please let's not make HuT an automatic thing again, this is the bane of antag's existence.

[Caelphon]

I have to agree to Gromnax's opinion. Holding Until Transfer is boring as shit. Its not enjoyable at all for the antagonist. I'd much prefer to be cyborigified (where I can ghost following the brain procedure) or straight up marooned so I can at least still do something. It is noble idea to try and get more roleplay for the antagonist, but it rarely ever plays out how you laid it out. 

[CampinKiller]

I agree with Cael/Gromnax, and have another reason for disagreement - wasting resources. Realistically speaking, since the Horizon doesn't return to a port every day, you're having to keep someone who may have killed several people alive, under guard, fed, etc. for a long period of time. In some cases, yes, this is preferred (a spy, for example), but if you've arrested an antag that's killed 3 people, why keep them when you can just dump them off on the nearest rock? Consider also a situation where there is a mutiny, and you have several persons in the brig. Would you keep them on the ship, where they can sow discord via the brig radio? Unlikely.

Personally, Command should be trusted to gauge the severity of the antag's crimes, and then decide what to do with them. You typically, in my experience, don't have command members trying to maroon someone for a single murder, unless it was high profile (ie. Captain).

[Roostercat]

Prisoners are still capable of escaping if they are put into HuT, doubly so if nobody is watching them. Other antagonists can let them out, traitors can use TC to spawn things to escape with, and so on. marooning just dumps whoever it is out of the round completely. 

[Carver]

6 hours ago, Roostercat said:

Prisoners are still capable of escaping if they are put into HuT, doubly so if nobody is watching them. Other antagonists can let them out, traitors can use TC to spawn things to escape with, and so on. marooning just dumps whoever it is out of the round completely. 

Marooning can also be 'escaped' from with help of other antagonists or sympathetic parties, so it's not inherently that bad - especially if you're given any degree of worthwhile supplies. The only time I would consider someone to be truly out of the round would be cyborgification, which is a downright miserable experience with no opportunity to come back from.

[Gromnax]

17 hours ago, Roostercat said:

Prisoners are still capable of escaping if they are put into HuT, doubly so if nobody is watching them. Other antagonists can let them out, traitors can use TC to spawn things to escape with, and so on. marooning just dumps whoever it is out of the round completely. 

Let's be honest for a second, when was the last time someone successfully escaped from HuT for long enough that it'd be relevant?