More freedom for players

[mirkoloio]

Now, I'd like to point out that Staff really like to restrict players, mainly sec players, in what they can do and what they can't.

Now, I do not think it is either just nor correct for staff to jump at an officer who's arresting people who are actively insulting said officer, but not to jump at the people who down 472 cups of coffee or 13LOKO in about 5 minutes.

What I want here is:

-> More freedom for Security officers to actually be able to arrest people on 'made up' charges because Someone insulted them, treathened friends or someone they like and things similar. Because, really, we're an HRP server. And people usually don't like such things happening. So why can't my officer go 'a little bit corrupt' and arrest that arse who called him a bug/cat/Whatever? Staff slapping People for stuff that sure would happen now or then does seem like preventing RP for me.

->Staff actually trying to keep the RP by NOT bwoinking officcers that do that, and instead starting to bwoink people who do silly, unbelievable stuff.

Internet, do your thing.

[Enzayne]

While I personally have no problems with "corrupt" officers, or even made up charges (I actually think they enhance RP when done well), my concern in regards to this topic is the fact that most security officers have no intention of actually roleplaying with their captured offender. They are putting them in their place, and then wandering off to do other, presumably security-related things. This leaves most incarcerated criminals alone, sometimes for a very long time, at which point they will either AFK, log entirely, or constantly try to make trouble in an effort to have something/anything happen or for someone to actually engage them in roleplay. Sitting in the brig is at it's core not particularly fun, and getting taken out of the round for an extended amount of time with noone sticking around is awful. I play a few rough-around-the-edges characters, and most of my traitors get brigged, and I think I've been abandoned to my ticking fate 19 out of 20 times.

Law enforcement in any roleplaying game is troublesome, but it is exarcerbated with lack of or poor interaction from either side. Furthermore, I feel as if many security officers play security in a very goal- and task-oriented manner. There is no negotiation, no thought, no sympathy, only law. This is fine for a synthetic and your more uncaring goons, but not really for normal, organic beings, to my mind.

[CampinKiller]

You want to talk player freedom, how about removing loyalty implants? You know, one of the most RP-stifling things in the game, which were made to prevent heads from being lol-flashed during rev.

[Guest]

Now, I do not think it is either just nor correct for staff to jump at an officer who's arresting people who are actively insulting said officer, but not to jump at the people who down 472 cups of coffee or 13LOKO in about 5 minutes.

 

You were called a bug-man, as your extremely aggressive Vaurca sec officer that could easily be 'mistaken' for an Unathi with an ant costume on and half of your vocal cords zzhredded. You slapped someone with slander, and outwardly refused to discuss your reasoning behind it.

As opposed to people who were feeding addictions to 13 Loko. It's soda. It's sugar. It's addictive.

 

-> More freedom for Security officers to actually be able to arrest people on 'made up' charges because Someone insulted them, treathened friends or someone they like and things similar. Because, really, we're an HRP server. And people usually don't like such things happening. So why can't my officer go 'a little bit corrupt' and arrest that arse who called him a bug/cat/Whatever? Staff slapping People for stuff that sure would happen now or then does seem like preventing RP for me.

 

Powerboning, elitism and empowering cliques. Aaaah, this is a good thread.

By the way, you do roleplay a marginalized and otherwise inferior race to the two top species in the galaxy, that being the Human race and of the Skrell. The Vaurca listen to the whims of their queen, Bound or Unbound. You do what the hive queen wishes of you, everything else is entirely secondary. And given the Queen wants you to look good in terms of public face. So swallow your pride (or however bugs digest things nowadays) and own up to it.

 

->Staff actually trying to keep the RP by NOT bwoinking officcers that do that, and instead starting to bwoink people who do silly, unbelievable stuff.

Internet, do your thing.

 

Nope, I think the staff are doing just okay for the sake of the server by crushing powerboner characters, toxic cliques and the sense of elitism. It's a much more balanced and welcoming community when everyone experiences the same unfairness every once in awhile.

[UnknownMurder]

Freedom? You patriotic person.

 

 

No. Security has more advantage than the crew and can keep someone out of the round with so-called made up charges. The Security Officer had underwent series of training and sorts of school enough not to make up the false charges unless you were an antag.

Let's just agree to disagree.

[Fox009]

I don't think security needs any more power or the ability to "make up charges" or whatever. That seems silly.

What security DOES need is a more clear ruleset and less admin oversight. For example, if we make a legit arrest we shouldn't have to spend ten minutes justifying it to an admin every time, security SOP needs to be re-worked and properly documented, and, lastly, Detectives should be able to wear belts.

On that note, these procedures:

• Announce intention to arrest and charges vocally.
  
• Request the suspect surrender peaceably.

 

Need to be modified and become circumstantial. I've already seen MAJOR problems with this and it's not entirely realistic.

[mirkoloio]

Powerboner is such a shitty word. Now, Delta. I'm asking of you to turn down your Saltminging a bit and to listen, aye?

I want you to walk up to any kind of security in real life, be it a mallcop or a security officer. And I want to to start unleashing racism and insults on them. What will they do? They'll most likely put you in cuffs for a bit, aye?

Now, I've asked here quite calmly, and my Vaurca isn't overly agressive, that I'd like to have less staff breathing down security's neck whenever they arrest someone. It's IC Issues and can be dealt with DO's or Heads. No need to stop the staff from spying on ERP/watching porn, is there?

Furthermore, the word 'Powerboner' sounds ridicolouly stupid and made-up to hinder the people who have the ability to do something from doing it.

[Skull132]

As it stands, the staff are slowly rolling over the rules and rewriting them. After which, the rules will go under a round of public review. After which, they'll be reviewed again by staff and we can have new rules.

Why am I mentioning this? Well, mostly because issues like this tend to stem from the rules being unclear and ununiformly (someone get me the proper version of the rules, please) enforced. For some admins and mods, what happened was roleplay enough to validate it: Delta's character was being a butt, and got batonned for it. (Oversimplification I guess, but still relatively accurate.) To others, it was bad sec play, as per the rules about bad roleplay. The general idea is to clear up a shit tonne of issues like this in the new ruleset, and also help the admins and mods enforce it in a uniform fashion, as they were now there for its creation.

Also. The general idea is, sec should have some freedom to be butts. It's called roleplay. But being a butt needs to be roleplayed in one fashion or another. And please don't give me the, "HE DIDN'T SPEAK TO ME!" crap I've been hearing too much of lately: words are not the only way to roleplay. And I can write roughly 3 paragraphs as to why this is so.

As for clearer IC regs about sec play, maybe, maybe not. It'd just shift how the people complain, tbh. At least in this specific instance :l

[Chaznoodles]

This is pretty much just being done so you get the freedom to bugbite people more often. No.

[Gollee]

except bugs shouldn't give two that someone is being racist to them, they have no concept of it.

[Skull132]

except bugs shouldn't give two that someone is being racist to them, they have no concept of it.

 

Ooo. this is a fun point. Do elaborate.

[Guest]

except bugs shouldn't give two that someone is being racist to them, they have no concept of it.

 

Ooo. this is a fun point. Do elaborate.

 

I don't about what Gollee would say, but would you really see any circles or concepts of social justice within an ant colony?

Even though Covert never really finished the Vaurca, it might be oversimplified to say that the race functions entirely like system-wide ant colonies... but that's basically it. Everyone (within context of bug-people) has their own role, individually they are seemingly unworthy of attention but as a whole they are something to be recognized.

Only issue is, I'd assume the Vaurca employed with NT do not outnumber the non-Vaurca employed with the company.

Would you expect a worker ant to cry oppression and racism if a stronger, warrior ant came along and broke its ant-legs? I'd doubt it, given all ants are indoctrinated in terms of culture to serve the whims of their hive queen.

[Gollee]

They have only ever known other Vaurca; and as an efficient hivemind, that only communicates through unbound; the only real racism that may exist is that from Unbound, to Bound; the Bound shouldn't care that they are being insulted because they are lobotimised gits. The Unbound shouldn't care because they have not really been exposed to anything other than inter-hive diplomacy and war.

It's much the same way as they don't have much art or culture that can be really understood by humans; they are too alien; and in return, they don't understand ours; that's one of the reasons, along with good relations, that they are working on NT stations, to get a greater understanding of human culture.

In addition, the unbound are used to all working in sync, there wouldn't have been inter-bug friction; why would they have any sort of inclination to act irrationally and violently towards beings that are considered "allied hives"; it's not their place to, doing so could endanger relations that the hive requires.

[Skull132]

I'll bug kekboot or silver to clarify.

[SilverTalismen]

except bugs shouldn't give two that someone is being racist to them, they have no concept of it.

 

Ooo. this is a fun point. Do elaborate.

 

Vaurca have obviosuly been the only other species on their side of the galaxy, the closest thing to racism they have is hating another hive

[UnknownMurder]

Can we get back on the topic?

[Garnascus]

You're basically asking for more ways to have fun for yourself at the expense of others. Getting brigged is never a fun experience.

[witchbells]

Now, I'd like to point out that Staff really like to restrict players, mainly sec players, in what they can do and what they can't.

Now, I do not think it is either just nor correct for staff to jump at an officer who's arresting people who are actively insulting said officer, but not to jump at the people who down 472 cups of coffee or 13LOKO in about 5 minutes.

What I want here is:

-> More freedom for Security officers to actually be able to arrest people on 'made up' charges because Someone insulted them, treathened friends or someone they like and things similar. Because, really, we're an HRP server. And people usually don't like such things happening. So why can't my officer go 'a little bit corrupt' and arrest that arse who called him a bug/cat/Whatever? Staff slapping People for stuff that sure would happen now or then does seem like preventing RP for me.

->Staff actually trying to keep the RP by NOT bwoinking officcers that do that, and instead starting to bwoink people who do silly, unbelievable stuff.

Internet, do your thing.

 

This sounds like a plead for security officers, or rather, you specifically, to receive more room to self-antag. I'm going to try and break this down as simply as I can for you.

Security officers have not now or ever been required to stand idly by as someone threatens and harasses them.

 

 

I only bring up this particular charge because you seem to be ignorant to its existence. In the experience of someone who makes very many threatening comments IC, threats of murder and injury are taken seriously. Even if the threat itself isn't serious enough to warrant brig time, reporting it to a superior could very easily mean consequences for the accused party. Repeated threats over public communications could possibly count of Misuse of Public Radio Channels. Minor Assault also gets an honorable mention, since the wiki states it could be used to prosecute someone throwing threats of minor injury around.

 

 

Please read this carefully just in case you don't "accidentally" end up misinterpreting it. Slander accounts for insults and misinformation with the intent to besmirch someone's reputation. Misuse of Public Radio Channels can, of course, be used again in this instance if someone is repeatedly doing so over public communications. What it is not for is to make your officer feel better about themselves, and any misuse of it should frankly result in your commanding officer telling you to grow some balls.

Regarding your claim about officers receiving more freedom being more friendly towards roleplay, security officers are canonically held to higher standards than most departments. Not only has the entire department received more audits than any other department to my memory, security is in charge of protecting high-priority personnel when the occasion arises, and protecting the entire crew when necessary. This is why you exist, and why you are provided with a large closet full of weapons and armor. Not only would a corrupt officer be thrown out flat on his ass after the first few days, "going a little bit corrupt" is actively self-antagging. I'm quite finished, but for good measure, I'll add this quote.

 

You're basically asking for more ways to have fun for yourself at the expense of others.

[Guest Menown]

Here's how that round went Mirk is talking about.

>Vaurca wants to arrest somebody for insulting an officer

>There's no such charge due to our removal of it

Now he wants to have it added. Finding ways to keep people out of the round is a terrible aspect to play security for. You're there to keep productivity at a max, not to find ways to hinder it. That's why warnings are so good, and why we need harsher punishment for constant repeat offenders.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Insulting an officer was removed as a charge and replaced with "Slandering a Head of Staff", so arresting someone for being a big meanie poopoo head ;'( isn't something you can do as an officer anymore.

You don't need to be given more freedom to be corrupt in the sense that you can throw someone in a hole in the ground for 20 minutes to act like a bad-ass. You are put through a cadetship and training in how to be a professional. If you want to be corrupt, stick to white collar crime when you're not an antag. There are more ways to be a jack-ass without beating someone up and throwing them in a cell.

As it stands this suggestion is thinly veiled attempt to allow security to brig people 4noraisins. Being brigged is not fun, security corruption is rarely fun because it revolves back to being brigged not being fun. We don't need more of that.

[Fox009]

... You are put through a cadetship and training in how to be a professional. If you want to be corrupt, stick to white collar crime when you're not an antag. There are more ways to be a jack-ass without beating someone up and throwing them in a cell.

One thing you guys might want to consider is a system like the Apollo server has where you literally DO start at the lowest level of a department and must work your way up by playing as the basic rank for a while (ie. being a cadet or intern) before you move up to the normal ranks. It is restricted to each character you make and probably has some drawbacks (ie. you can't really multiclass a character anymore) but it might help with poorly trained security. That being said, I have seen quite a few Cadets and such actually working their way up on this server since I've played here (I started as a Cadet too).

Right now it's basically assumed and written that people have undergone this but they really just haven't. I've seen some poor security as a result of this.

Then again, this is a difficult issue and I feel this thread is more of a response to a particular round rather then "how we improve security".

... I also just thought of how to multiclass the Apollo system.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

... You are put through a cadetship and training in how to be a professional. If you want to be corrupt, stick to white collar crime when you're not an antag. There are more ways to be a jack-ass without beating someone up and throwing them in a cell.

One thing you guys might want to consider is a system like the Apollo server has where you literally DO start at the lowest level of a department and must work your way up by playing as the basic rank for a while (ie. being a cadet or intern) before you move up to the normal ranks. It is restricted to each character you make and probably has some drawbacks (ie. you can't really multiclass a character anymore) but it might help with poorly trained security. That being said, I have seen quite a few Cadets and such actually working their way up on this server since I've played here (I started as a Cadet too).

Right now it's basically assumed and written that people have undergone this but they really just haven't. I've seen some poor security as a result of this.

Then again, this is a difficult issue and I feel this thread is more of a response to a particular round rather then "how we improve security".

... I also just thought of how to multiclass the Apollo system.

 

That sounds like an intriguing idea; a unique form of whitelisting. You should create a separate thread and see if we can get feedback from both aurora-ians and Apollo-ians familiar with the system's drawbacks and benefits.

[Zundy]

... You are put through a cadetship and training in how to be a professional. If you want to be corrupt, stick to white collar crime when you're not an antag. There are more ways to be a jack-ass without beating someone up and throwing them in a cell.

One thing you guys might want to consider is a system like the Apollo server has where you literally DO start at the lowest level of a department and must work your way up by playing as the basic rank for a while (ie. being a cadet or intern) before you move up to the normal ranks. It is restricted to each character you make and probably has some drawbacks (ie. you can't really multiclass a character anymore) but it might help with poorly trained security. That being said, I have seen quite a few Cadets and such actually working their way up on this server since I've played here (I started as a Cadet too).

Right now it's basically assumed and written that people have undergone this but they really just haven't. I've seen some poor security as a result of this.

Then again, this is a difficult issue and I feel this thread is more of a response to a particular round rather then "how we improve security".

... I also just thought of how to multiclass the Apollo system.

 

That sounds like an intriguing idea; a unique form of whitelisting. You should create a separate thread and see if we can get feedback from both aurora-ians and Apollo-ians familiar with the system's drawbacks and benefits.

 

I like this idea very much.

[Gollee]

As a note, security roles other than cadet have a three day age thingy (You can't play them until your account has been known by the server for three days). Expanding it to affect individual characters could be interesting; maybe not quite right for us, but it'd be good to test.

[CampinKiller]

Yeah, no corruption, please. Roleplayed corruption is fine, but just brigging people for the lulz isn't.

Also, for the people that say being brigged isn't fun, it's because people who get brigged don't want to make it fun. 9/10 times a non-ling antag (or non-antag) is brigged, they simply bitch and moan, refuse to cooperate, yell over comms for a lawyer, yell about how they're being abused, and if they end up in permabrig, simply go to cryo and ghost, then proceed to moan about shitcurity in deadchat. The 10% who do roleplay with security, instead of simply stopping and refusing to once in the Brig, actually seem to have an enjoyable experience, unless a shit officer decides to ignore their roleplay.