Mice Bites

[Zundy]

Mice should be able to bite (albeit with literally 0 damage, like getting an empty candy wrapper thrown at you).

Reason: Fun really, they can already nuzzle etc.

Thoughts?

[Nanako]

A bite that does no damage is counterintuitive. If they're going to have a bite, it should hurt, however little. 1 brute damage.

It'd also give people a very good reason to murder mice who bite things

Also, everyone needs this

[Gollee]

Unless you want every critically injured person to end up like Kenny McCormick, I'd advise against it doing damage beyond maybe holo.

[Zundy]

Unless you want every critically injured person to end up like Kenny McCormick, I'd advise against it doing damage beyond maybe holo.

 

Yeah I like that, minimal holo damage per bite so it actually is painful, but can be shrugged off.

[Zundy]

MICE UPDATES

 

*cough cough cough COUGH COUGHCOUGHCOUGH*

 

[UnknownMurder]

Since you posted Justin Beiber .gif. I forbid this.

I don't mind mouse bites as long as they aren't spammy bites, but I would like to see mouse dealing tiny damage during a 'mouse infestation'.

[Carver]

No damage of any sort pls or I will have to start shooting mice. Also can't you just emote a bite as a mouse, at this point?

[Shadow]

I REALLY don't want dam mice to start doing damage in any way, not brute, not holo, no damage at all. If you want to bite someone just emote it.

[Zundy]

You want people to power emote biting?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

While there are valid fears over the powergaming and validhunting potential of mice biting, including a horrific new rendition of greytide wherein we are swarmed with a endless horde of mice bites that knock us into paincrit, I feel that the fears are overinflated.

There is never more than 2 mice at a time around me that I have seen. And if they bite you the mouse has to be in a situation where it is able to be stomped. Giving a 1 holodamage abiity to nip someone seems fair if they also get killed in 1 shot and are the most valid creatures on our server.

[Nanako]

I'm not really seeing the point in holodamage. a bite is a bite. Nymphs can already bite people, in fact every player controlled mob in the game has the ability to harm others.

Trauma already heals naturally for most people. Those that don't can deal with it the same way they deal with other workplace accidents, like hurting their eyes with welders, or getting hit by flying coke cans, or failing to catch something a colleague tossed to them

Personally my position is do it right, or don't bother. i don't think halloss bites would serve any purpose

[Zundy]

Then go for actual damage then. I'm easy fam.

[Serveris]

Yeah, no. Mice are a low cost way for ghosts to get back into a limited role. They're designed to be, effectively, background observers to the round.

No chewing cables.

No causing damage to players.

No removing shoes.

Hell, if ever actually see a traitor mouse, I'm going to take it away and give it to someone that can actually use it to impact the round. I'm amazed there's been this much discussion lately about such a petty role. If you're wanting functionality, play as a maintenance drone, or respawn. These mouse shenanigans are getting old fast.

[Zundy]

Yeah, no. Mice are a low cost way for ghosts to get back into a limited role. They're designed to be, effectively, background observers to the round.

No chewing cables.

No causing damage to players.

No removing shoes.

Hell, if ever actually see a traitor mouse, I'm going to take it away and give it to someone that can actually use it to impact the round. I'm amazed there's been this much discussion lately about such a petty role. If you're wanting functionality, play as a maintenance drone, or respawn. These mouse shenanigans are getting old fast.

 

Why have mice at all if ghosting allows you to observe better and have the ability to respawn after 30 minutes?

[Nanako]

Yeah, no. Mice are a low cost way for ghosts to get back into a limited role. They're designed to be, effectively, background observers to the round.

 

we have observers for that, though

People tend to treat playermice more as a distraction, something to keep them occupied until major stuff happens.

Some people chase them around with crowbars, some people adopt them as pets, some people don't have the time for it

Either way imo, mice are minor participants in the round, not really observers. Much less important than crewmembers, but still having fun and RP value

 

No chewing cables.

I was actually thinking of implementing this, with some obvious risk like death by electricity

 

No causing damage to players.

No removing shoes.

 

I'm not sure what the issue with these is, if a mouse doing these things annoys someone, then they can kill the mouse.

If the mouse is too hard to kill? Then git gud. there are plenty of techniques to kill mice very easily

Its the same with any role in the game, SS13 leans towards freedom of actions, and our RP environment leans towards consequences for actions, without removing the ability to take them.

[Guest]

I'm not sure what the issue with these is, if a mouse doing these things annoys someone, then they can kill the mouse.

 

Because you're a background observer and not a crew-member. You hold little to no rights that a sentient humanoid character would actually possess in-game. You become a mouse with the sole purpose to roleplay as a mouse. You do not join as mouse to:

1.) Sabotage station systems for keks

2.) Fullstrip people for keks

3.) Break immersion, metagame or grief

Mice do not have counters. A ghost can wait 5-10 minutes to respawn as a mouse again to do the same damage, if given the ability to do such damage, over and over again. They do not genuinely add anything to the game to be held to the same levels of importance as other roles. They are minor fun roles for people who don't want to take the round too seriously and just want to be a cute mouse eating cheese and pissing off the chef, and generally just be a believable pest. There is no "getting gud" in relation to killing mice, because they can just respawn and keep going anyway, unlike antagonists who get one chance to do something interesting and if they fail, well, RIP them. Better luck next time for them, if and when they roll antag again.

Unlike literally anyone else, they can respawn in such a small amount of time to do the same thing they were doing again. And you folk want to allow them to chew cable coil and bite people?

inb4 "But you can ban the mouse!"

You're gonna mouse-ban someone? You're gonna ban someone for fucking around as a mouse and acting unrealistically? It's pathetic, and such a tiny fucking thing to ban someone for: it's a temporary and ineffective solution to a still-existing and prevalent problem: That mice can still do the same shit that was done and potentially cause future incidents that no one wants to waste their time with. This is honestly how you deal with powergamers. You don't ban them, you just limit their methods of being able to be the most powerful lad on the station able to kick anyone's ass at will.

Thus, disable their capabilities to actively grief as a mouse, while still enabling their mechanics to act as a mouse would. Remove the full-stripping, disallow them from causing damage to players (and thus outright potentially killing people), in addition to preventing them from doing anything regarding munching on cable coil in maintenance. Really, what's the rationale behind wanting to get behind that, anyway? You lads just want an excuse to grief as a mouse or something? Cutting wires is not a small thing.

Mice do not add anything very critical to the game, again, to be prioritized with any level of importance in development. It's silly to say otherwise. Might I actually be so bold to say, that said time discussing something so trivial could actually be better used trying to discuss and draft up ideas that more directly affect the HRP experience and gameplay? I would personally like to see more discussion on maintenance drones being given some functionality that doesn't completely inhibit their ability to perform maintenance in some situations.

[Nanako]

Hell, if ever actually see a traitor mouse, I'm going to take it away and give it to someone that can actually use it to impact the round.

 

Also, the one time i played as a traitor mouse, i had the following impacts on the round:

-Observed a hostage situation fail, and the ransom money be recovered, and then stole some of that ransom money.

-Got hunted down and captured by a mad bartender who had claimed the money, bargained for my freedom

-Stole some phoron from chemistry, and sparked some radio panic about mice stealing chemicals

-An ERT trooper opened fire on me in a hallway with an LMG, though i escaped unharmed

-Started a brawl in departures, as a combination of ERT, bartender and several other people who wanted me dead started fighting over me

-Got some fun mentions in postround ooc as a result

I'd say i had a reasonable impact on the round, interacted with a significant number of people, and created some memorable moments for several of those involved

[Nanako]

Because you're a background observer and not a crew-member. You hold little to no rights that a sentient humanoid character would actually possess in-game.

This also applies to cyborgs, AIs, drones, pAIs, and several types of antagonist.

 

You become a mouse with the sole purpose to roleplay as a mouse. You do not join as mouse to:

mice are known as vermin because they dig into places, eat and chew things, and make a mess.

I don't see how cable chewing would do anything but enhance mouse RP

As for sabotage, engineering is often lacking things to do, something else to contend with wouldn't be bad. A good engineer can quickly diagnose a cut wire by lack of input to the upstream station, and diagnose its location by which departments are affected

Mice do not have counters.

Completely false.

Mice have several counters, including:

Moustraps. Place one on each vent to instakill any mouse that enters the room. they can't open doors, so its a pretty foolproof way to ban mice from an area. can also be placed in narrow halls with no way to go around them.

Welding vents

Drones

Throwing objects at them

A ghost can wait 5-10 minutes to respawn as a mouse again to do the same damage, if given the ability to do such damage, over and over again.

 

Remember that many maintenance tunnels lack vents, and mice have no ability to remove floor tiles, greatly limiting areas in which they could chew stuff

A cable being cut every five minutes would be annoying, but it'd probably also lead to security patrolling maintenance for saboteurs more often, catching mice in the act and batonning them to death

 

They do not genuinely add anything to the game to be held to the same levels of importance as other roles.

hey i'm certainly not implying the same level of importance.

An assistant with yellow gloves and wirecutters can do a lot more in a single life before he's caught, than a mouse is likely to do respawning over a round

 

inb4 "But you can ban the mouse!"

You're gonna mouse-ban someone? You're gonna ban someone for fucking around as a mouse and acting unrealistically? It's pathetic, and such a tiny fucking thing to ban someone for: it's a temporary and ineffective solution to a still-existing and prevalent problem: That mice can still do the same shit that was done and potentially cause future incidents that no one wants to waste their time with.

 

You can ban people for griefing, which is frequently done. We don't remove things because someone might abuse them. I'm sure you could make an argument for entirely removing public tool storage and atmospherics on those grounds, but it'd be silly

 

Might I actually be so bold to say, that said time discussing something so trivial could actually be better used trying to discuss and draft up ideas that more directly affect the HRP experience and gameplay?

This thread is about mice. If you want to discuss something that isn't mice you can go and make/post in a thread which isn't about mice.

Also, SS13 is a game, its fun. Everyone has their own different definition of fun. Some of us want to captain a space station, some of us really just enjoy being space mice and stealing the space cheese. Fun is fun, its not quantifiable and can't be assigned an absolute value

 

I would personally like to see more discussion on maintenance drones being given some functionality that doesn't completely inhibit their ability to perform maintenance in some situations.

 

great! make that thread, ill probably post in it

[Dreamix]

(...)

Delma has a point here. Why even care about mice. We're a HRP server about a station full of crew and a bunch of synthetics surviving all the shit badmins and rngjesus throw at them. There's no mice anywhere in-between. Majority, if not all, can agree that playing as rodents in SS13 is like buying some salt at McDonald's, when everyone around is enjoying their full meals of quarter-pounders and royales with cheese. You can do it, but it just doesn't work, should never work, and no one ever wanted or suspected it to work.

Hell, if mice just were never added in, and someone suggested it right now, everyone would laugh at the idea of adding playable mice. Just think of it.

And the idea of mice cutting cables is bizarre. I guarantee you, this will only annoy people. It's the rogue/broken vending machines-level of annoying-ness. People want things that enchance roleplay, not a forced game of cat and mouse.

And don't even get me started on the antagonist mice. Imagine what nice things real antags could do. If not the metagame of not-validing-on-sight player mice, you wouldn't do any of that stuff.

I just don't get it. Why even bother. At all. Get your priorities fixed, people.

[Chaznoodles]

No.

[Carver]

I'll give you a single, solid reason why mice should never be able to cause damage.

 

IPCs don't regenerate health, no matter how insignificant the damage.

Example: Throwing a piece of paper at them causes permanent damage.

[Ricky_the_banshee]

Dear God, no.

The last thing I want to see is Mouse (666) bites George Melons!. Many people before have listed reasons why Mice have restrictions and God forbid these restrictions too be loosened because certain players want their Mice to be Kawaii as fuck. I could name so many instances with Player mice fucking with things from Removing shoes to STRIPPING PEOPLE to terrible emotes like expressing emotions as if people can comprehend emotions coming from rodents.

If you really feel the need to "bite" someone, you have an emote button for that. As Dreamix said, we don't need Mice to become something of equal to rampant vending machines or WORSE, like a Rodent Greytide.

[Kaed]

Maybe we can compromise with a minor random event that spawns several alien-allowed players into slightly more robust mice that have biting and wire chewing capabilities, and call them like, rabid space mice or something. That would be a moderately entertaining alternative to spider and carp attacks and provide that destructive mice outlet people are wanting in a contained way.

[Serveris]

Maybe we can compromise with a minor random event that spawns several alien-allowed players into slightly more robust mice that have biting and wire chewing capabilities, and call them like, rabid space mice or something. That would be a moderately entertaining alternative to spider and carp attacks and provide that destructive mice outlet people are wanting in a contained way.

 

No.

Locking and binning.