[Resolved] Staff Complaint - OneOneThreeEight/Scheveningen

[Scheveningen]

They generally act the same. Frag grenades can be placed in areas with greater precision and can do more damage given their status as an item, and thus do more damage in enclosed spaces, whereas a cyborg's blast radius is harder to control.

 

 

This is effectively how frags are supposed to work. They expel shrapnel in all directions, the closer someone is to the grenade as it detonates, the more lethal it can be. Cyborg detonations are less deadly because you can never be on the same tile as the cyborg itself, unlike with frag grenades where you can kill someone instantly if they are standing on the grenade due to how shrapnel collision functions. If you are above, left, below or to the right of a grenade, you will only catch some of the shrapnel, and not all of the bits.

[sonicgotnuked]

You and UM both have whitelists, right?

Yes, in fact I was the one directly responsible for fixing the injuries that the crew got and also responsible for fixing the eight cases of internal bleeding bit caused.

 

What's the issue with communicating?

I am simply implying how communication was not necessary in this situation.

Question delta, do you think bits warning was a valid warning when it said it was going to ask to be blown up? It was by the seconds. Shut the borg up or face more NT secrets being released.

Communication takes seconds to perform, and the more seconds that borg was alive would of been a major loss of asset. Even more so with a announcement, even more so with directing the robotisis to shut it down.

Another thing, I will go on a private server and do some testing or I will go into the code for the damage of the borg explosion shortly. I already saw frag grenade shrapnel where 100 pieces fly out doing 15 brute each and embedding.

[Scheveningen]

Went back and reviewed other comments because this particular one makes no sense:

ohhh UM was the captain. my bad!

anyways i feel like that swings it more in UMs favor. theres literally a clause that captains can do things that would be against regulations in crisis situations

 

There is no clause that exists that permits the captain or head of security to break regulations in a crisis.

 

I am simply implying how communication was not necessary in this situation.

 

I disagree. Communication is absolutely necessary in order to make good of a bad situation. Not communicating creates more issues than it solves, as displayed here. Heads of staff should know this.

 

Communication takes seconds to perform, and the more seconds that borg was alive would of been a major loss of asset. Even more so with a announcement, even more so with directing the robotisis to shut it down.

 

No more seconds than it takes to hover hand the cyborg console console in the bridge and wait for an excuse to detonate a loudmouth cyborg, I reckon. No more precious seconds than the captain took in ignoring a cyborg that actually wanted to be fixed, and was too locked down to even defend itself beyond spilling secrets over the radio because the captain was ignoring Bit.

 

Another thing, I will go on a private server and do some testing or I will go into the code for the damage of the borg explosion shortly. I already saw frag grenade shrapnel where 100 pieces fly out doing 15 brute each and embedding.

 

You do that, but do note you weren't the one to fix Charlie Reader, it was Cheshire who attempted to stabilize him but could not given their synthetic hands were malfunctioning.

[sonicgotnuked]

You do that, but do note you weren't the one to fix Charlie Reader, it was Cheshire who attempted to stabilize him but could not given their synthetic hands were malfunctioning.

Yes, I was. On the odin if that matters anyway.

 

There is no clause that exists that permits the captain or head of security to break regulations in a crisis.

Yes, there is. I would expect you to know this by now as a head of staff whitelisted player.

 

[Garnascus]

ok ill admit one thing. it would have been NICE to give a warning over the radio before you blew the borg. I suppose its not unreasonable for us to say "hey man maybe give a little more warning next time?"

[Arrow768]

Another thing, I will go on a private server and do some testing or I will go into the code for the damage of the borg explosion shortly. I already saw frag grenade shrapnel where 100 pieces fly out doing 15 brute each and embedding.

 

A normal frag grenade has 100 Shrapnels

A borg emits a random number between 50 and 100 Shrapnels

A borg shrapnel causes 5 damage instead of 15 damage

A borg shrapnel projectile loses a shrapnel each tile instead of every 2 tiles with a frag grenade.

A borg explosion has a light damage range of 2. Stepping out of that range will cause some ear damage, deafen them and stun them for a bit, but will cause no explosion damage.

I have conducted another test with a borg in the middle and the dummies two tiles away from the borg.

That is the number of shrapnel embedded into each person:

0 1 0 0 1 0 0
0           2
0           0
0     x     0
0           0
1           0
0 0 0 2 0 0 2

As you can see, only 6 out of 24 persons have caught shrapnel.

That is a 75% chance to escape unharmed, if you just walk two tiles away from the borg that said it wants to be blown up and even warned you that it will attempt to do so.

That is the screenshot directly after the borg detonation:

 

 

That is a screenshot one minute after the borg detonation:

 

 

That is a frag grenade directly after the explosion:

 

 

Anyway, yeah. I don't play with sound on, and I didn't know they made a noise when they're about to blow up. I think that still, as I was dragging it around public hallways for a good half of that round, a warning should've been issued over the radio that it was about to be blown up.

 

There are two different types of warning when a borg is about to blow.

The first is the Warning Message that is displayed in the chat.

In addition to that two different sounds are played.

If a player plays in any game where sound is important, without sound, then noone but the player can be "blamed" for playing without sound.

It is their decision, so they have to live with the consequences of not hearing sound.

I.e. If you play any game where sound is an important part and you dont hear someone sneaking up on you from behind, you can not ask admins to revive you because you did not have sound on.

In addition to that, the borg announced that it wants to be blown up about two minutes prior to the detonation.

(Logs should be able to provide the exact time)

Once the captain denied that it started spouting company secrets to be blown up.

The borg expressed its clear intent to be blown up.

And then started leading to conversation towards classified subjects.

That alone should have been enough to get a reasonable cautious player away from the borg.

So, there are a total of 3 warnings:

* The borg announcing that it wants to be blown up

* The immediate warning that the self destruct has been activated (wich was most likely played 3 times due to the captain hitting the self destruct 3 times as mentioned by Scheveningen)

* And the audio being played.

 

Victim blaming without adequate prior warning.

I never resort to blaming a victim unless they were warned by multiple mediums prior to watch out[...]

 

How should the captain know that they were playing wihtout sound ?

 

If someone is typing in response to someone either in person or over the radio, they don't have five seconds to walk away, because not everyone is going to be looking at their screen when typing, they're going to be looking at their keyboard.

That could be applied to any situation and could be used to turn any situation into the warning.

If someone is not watching the monitor because they are currently typing, well that happens but it is no reason to warn someone else because "they did not give enough time to react".

Again, lets say you are attempting to take someone hostage and they run away while you are typing some emotes or a lengthy text on your keyboard.

You wont be able to ahelp that the hostage did bad because they ran away in the time you took to write "me aims a gun at whatever and makes a downward notion while saying "Get down on the floor"".

This is a game, where you have to pay reasonable attention, especially if you have warning signs that something might happen in advance.

Wich were given in that case.

This is also the reason why certain players are more robust than others in all games.

Some are just faster typers, some have faster reaction speeds, some know the mechancis better, some have a disadvantage for playing without sound.

But that happens. And thats normal.

Regarding the notion to have it taken to robotics and have its radio disabled.

How long does it take the captain to come over to robotics and unlock the borg for the scientist to remove the radio (since there was no roboticist if I remember correctly) ?

3 minutes at least.

How long does it take the borg to say "You are all sitting at a nuke in the vault that captains have the authority to blow up!"

30 seconds if they are a slow typer.

So yes, time was of the essence.

In addition, if the captain announced that he was going to blow up the borg, it would have given the borg enough time to spout the secrets about the nuke in the vault.

While the warning would be nice, I can totally see why it has not been issued in this case.

Finally:

If a security officer threw a frag grenade at an antagonist with civilians nearby and the civilians got hurt, I'm fairly certain that officer would get spoken to by staff and told to be careful the next time they do it, and advised to give adequate warning the next time a similar situation presents itself.

As shown above a frag grenade is in no way comparable to a borg explosion. And it does not make a verbal announcement like: "WARNING: A frag grenade explosion has been triggered. Please leave the area within 5 seconds".

[UnknownMurder]

If UM at the very least admits their failure to communicate was a mistake and they'll make more invested attempts to communicate better, I will remove the warning from their record.

Interesting bargain, but I must decline your cheap offer. This is not a failure and I already do excellent amount of communication in general. Ask anybody, they'll know that my mouth goes on blabbing both IC and OOC.

Although, I've just realized as I've typed through my post. I have not been informed of the OOC rule I've broken.

I've just looked at your out of context seeming to be an authentic screenshot of living by communicating, those are just tips given by Skull in Guides and Tutorial sections outdated back to 2014, not that it doesn't mean a thing. Let quote what Skull said before he posted this and give you a URL of proof. https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=603#p4834 These are just personal views, opinions, and even experiences from 2014. This screenshot cannot be used to back up as an authentic back up to your claims. They're not rules or expected RP guidelines.

(My apologies for notifying and getting you involved, Skull.)

These are my personal views, opinions and experiences. Take them as you will.

 

[mention]Garnascus[/mention]

While I do agree that communication is vital, but sometimes having no communication may be as well reasonable if we're going along with that Delta wants me to roleplay like in his quote.

 

What is stopping a captain from communicating to the general crew to "watch out, I am turning the cyborg leaking corporate secrets over comms into a firecracker"?

This is entirely wrong, it just sounds like "Watch out, station. I'm going to blow this cyborg up. Why you might be asking? Well, you see it is leaking corporate secrets like it just recently did about the nuclear". If you want to speak out like that, you're going to anger people and give them a reason to revolt against you or lose trust in you. If you think about on a diplomatic stance, do you want the station to know that the malfunctioning cyborg is telling the truth over the public communication? Because, obviously, you don't want to station to know that a cyborg who may have been speaking the truth to know that it's being blown up. With all experiments and strong points brought up against Delta's warning and action in the round. It is clear that Delta did not investigate the situation and decided to hand me this warning, have failed to address my points addressed twice in this thread, did not bother to look from my perspective, and have failed to address my question in the round.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Guest

[Scheveningen]

This is entirely wrong, it just sounds like "Watch out, station. I'm going to blow this cyborg up. Why you might be asking? Well, you see it is leaking corporate secrets like it just recently did about the nuclear". If you want to speak out like that, you're going to anger people and give them a reason to revolt against you or lose trust in you. If you think about on a diplomatic stance, do you want the station to know that the malfunctioning cyborg is telling the truth over the public communication? Because, obviously, you don't want to station to know that a cyborg who may have been speaking the truth to know that it's being blown up. With all experiments and strong points brought up against Delta's warning and action in the round. It is clear that Delta did not investigate the situation and decided to hand me this warning, have failed to address my points addressed twice in this thread, did not bother to look from my perspective, and have failed to address my question in the round.

 

At that point, Unknown, there's pretty much nothing you can do in those kinds of situations. You can't erase what people say from the record when it's publicly broadcasted like that, and the station was too busy being in a situation where half of the enlisted crew were dead, wounded in medical or completely occupied trying to deal with the issues of the station without any clear oversight or guidance to get the station back into working order. You would not have changed public perception regarding what the cyborg was talking about, but you would've made a much bigger difference had you initially communicated to get clear of the blast radius of the cyborg.

I've decided to adjust the warning and wipe it from your visible warnings. After re-evaluating the evidence, perhaps I did go too far in administering a warning, but you should learn to communicate with your subordinates sooner or later, and make it a point to do so in almost every situation provided it doesn't get to the point where it becomes micro-managing. It is not really your fault the cyborg's intentions were to bait you into detonating them given there were no crew to amend the situation of fixing the cyborg so it isn't acting rampant and maiming crewmembers.

Captains are permitted to lie about things in the best interest of NanoTrasen, provided it isn't a lie based on obvious criminal intent that could easily be called out. Captains are handpicked by NT to be charismatic and excelling in rousing the rabble to set goals and accomplish objectives. Besides, why would anyone believe a malfunctioning cyborg about "corporate secrets"? It's a synthetic. Synthetics can be programmed to lie. I'd trust someone who was loyalty implanted over the word of a robot, unless I did something that discredited my own honesty as a head of staff, to which there is no coming back from and people will never respect them again. It's your job to cover up for yourself and ensure the crew is working, and get morale up so it benefits work productivity.

Understand that apathy and inaction often bring more negative consequences than it brings positive ones for purposefully avoiding getting involved in issues. Communication is critical to standard and nonstandard operation. It keeps people alive, working and focused for as long as there is someone to guide them. You are whitelisted because the community believes you can handle responsibility and set a good example as a leader for future candidates to learn from and apply for in the future. How you react to situations sets the standard for future individuals to abide by.

This was insightful and I thank you for opening this complaint.

[UnknownMurder]

It is good to see that you to have finally acknowledged and conceded after 30 posts detailing it out and shooting down each of your posts of why you're wrong. Now that you removed the warning, the point sticks. If you think that was going to close up this staff complaint, you've thought wrong. There are still other issues to address about you in this round and you have ignored them all. That being said, I'm not backing down with just having a warning removed. I'll get to the point. You still have Arrow, Sonicgotnuked, and my points left to be addressed. Here, let me throw the basic question out for you to catch. Are you able to do your job? We don't see how that's possible with all these fish flopping around you've done.

[Rushodan]

If you think that was going to close up this staff complaint, you've thought wrong. There are still other issues to address about you in this round and you have ignored them all. That being said, I'm not backing down with just having a warning removed.

 

Well then [mention]UnknownMurder[/mention] you should probably state what you do want as the result of this Staff Complaint. What it seems like you are hinting to is that [mention]Scheveningen[/mention] isn't suitable in their staff position (which I disagree with IMO - I think they are a pretty good staff member most of the time). So please could you state what you want the outcome of this complaint to be clearly for us all? Would probably help speed things up.

(PS: Unsure if I was allowed to post this, but I felt like it was relevant. Delete if needed)

[UnknownMurder]

I'm going to hammer the final nail in the coffin now. I'm already getting tired of stating obvious.

Already did in the last couple posts. but I'm not the one who calls the shots. Although, I'm neither in position nor do I want to force demands. Either [mention]Shadow[/mention]

or [mention]Garnascus[/mention] I have clueless with punishments with staffs in administrative ranks, however I want to see something to actually be done about Delta as a whole. I'll tell you this that there are many people unhappy with Delta as a general. However, I will be keeping my personal opinions to myself unless either of these two head admins would come to forth to me on discord and discuss with me privately. Although, just myself blurting out what I want to be done won't speed things up. While I appreciate your opinion at the same time, [mention]SHODAN[/mention] however I disagree with Delta's general behavior in the public as a moderator, sure it's alright to let yourself be free and be buddies with friends OOC. But it is not alright to be outright aggressive with people in the staff complaints, ban appeal, player complaint, anywhere on forums, or even on OOC on server.

Want an example of this behavior? Delta becomes outright aggressive when I disagreed with Delta's opinion on OOC last night which escalated fast which prompted [mention]Sharp[/mention] to step in and tells the both of us to quit. I calmly quit and informs Delta quit. Guess what Delta did? Delta has spoken out against Aboshehab that Delta will not keep and kept on talking about her opinion. I could adminhelp it, but then Delta would see it and get fussed over it. So, I decided to wait and let Delta keep talking all she wants without getting involved and focusing on my round so I could bring it up when the timing is right. I suppose the timing is well to bring it up now.

At this moment, I am awaiting an administrator/head admin to take reins and investigate and review the points that we have listed. Delta's points have pretty much been shot down and this reveals that he did not investigate into the situation and have failed to address more points.

[Scheveningen]

I have absolutely zero clue what you're talking about in relation to last night, especially considering you're not being specific and you haven't presented any screenshots to help me understand what you're referring to. I have zero recollection into getting into an argument with you in OOC.

I literally had an administrator delete the warning from your account. I decided this, nobody else did. What more do you want, exactly?

I did investigate your case. I thought you were in the wrong. Garnascus annoyed and pressured me enough (i say this only with love and tolerance, garn) and presented living server-side proof that apparently a captain can break any regulation he pleases in an emergency situation, and stretched out an argument long enough to the point where I decided to give up and relent, to the point where I up and decided to lift your warning altogether.

Much as I protest that standard there's literally nothing I can do about it.

But, are you insinuating you want me fired from staff or something? Based on what you're saying it kinda seems like you're holding a really nasty grudge, apparently? Did me telling you that you should communicate better as a head of staff strike a nerve? I apologize if that's the case but don't you feel that perhaps you're overreacting?

[Garnascus]

All i am really interested in here is the warning. As it stands it has been expunged from your record and a note has been added detailing this complaint. It will not be held against you in the future. I am going to consider this resolved and lock and archive it within 24 hours. Delta gets plenty of complaints but its actually rare for his actions to be overturned.

[UnknownMurder]

Very well. I shall hold my thoughts to myself and save it for a better time regarding Delta's failure to perform an accurate investigation listed in OP and points. I'll just wait until someone brings it up and let alone use this an example to remind Delta to investigate better in the future.

You may resolve this staff complaint and then archive you see it fit.

[Brightdawn]

I think if you wanted to talk about Delta's attitude and behavior it'd be best to do it in another separate complaint.

[Scheveningen]

Very well. I shall hold my thoughts to myself and save it for a better time regarding Delta's failure to perform an accurate investigation listed in OP and points. I'll just wait until someone brings it up and let alone use this an example to remind Delta to investigate better in the future.

You may resolve this staff complaint and then archive you see it fit.

 

If you continue with this grudge-carrying nonsense, having already blocked me over discord and absolutely refused to talk to me to settle and clarify the issues you seem to have with me, then I'm going to your boss to lodge a staff conduct complaint. I am seriously pissed how you've absolutely refused to talk to me one on one prior to this complaint being made. You have made it your effort to demonize me in this complaint and you have likewise made no effort to be reasonable whatsoever, and no effort to respond in order to have a civil conversation. I have zero interest in this server politics crap that you're partaking in.

[UnknownMurder]

Considering there are still complaints regarding Delta, I would like to be unresolved for the meantime.

EDIT: Nevermind. Brightdawn can make his own complaint.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Guest

[UnknownMurder]

You are actively making UM's thread against me worse and closer to being locked by continuing to post. Just stop.

 

I disagree, Delta. What you've just said to Brightdawn in this thread just proved our case. This is you admitting that you've insulted a person who stepped forward to complain about you. In your response? You rudely told her to fuck off because she's not to be trusted with her history.

You bring vulgarities into this thread. This is you doing it. This is you attacking Brightdawn. This is not how we should behave at all. We cannot behave like this in the community. And for the record, I did not block you. I simply ignored you because this big issue cannot be resolved behind closed doors. Seeing that Brightdawn has posted discord logs, I shall post my discord logs as well because I will be very open to show the logs to everyone here. To reiterate, I had not blocked Delta and I know this issue cannot be resolved just the between us.

[witchbells]

The debacle between Brightdawn and Delta ends here. To put it very simply, neither of you should have done that.

Brightdawn, if you have any complaints against Delta, please make your own thread. This one does not involve you, and any further accusations will be deleted again. No further "chiming in" will be tolerated.