More Vampire, Less Ninja

[JKJudgeX]

Playing a lot lately, I've noticed an absolute overload of ninjas and wizards.

In my experience, these gamemodes are the most likely to result in a virtually unchallenged transfer vote at 2:00 because most people don't get involved. I'll talk about why I think that is, some alternative gameplay suggestions to help those modes, and then talk about why I think throwing in some more vampire might be appropriate and cool.

What happens to ninjas and wizards

Okay, so, ninjas and wizards are a bit more acceptable in mixed secret because there's a cult or other source of conflict involved, but, here's what I've seen happen in about 5 ninja/wizard scenarios recently.

The ninja/wizard arrives, with or without a decent gimmick, and begins making quiet moves on the station. Nearly instantly, they are noticed for not having an ID. Today, a single antag being found on station with no ID was used as justification for blue alert. Blue alert pops up, boom, now we can search without a warrant. Incognito ninja or wizard is now about 1 minute from being fully discovered by security, and any items they have stolen will likely result in further escalation in a very negative way. The ninja or wizard is pushed into a fight or flight mode, and escalation ensues. This just becomes 2 or 3 security guards running down this antag and eventually killing him because he does something violent like trying to take a hostage, chucking a fireball, or whatever.

I would like to suggest that we never elevate to blue just because there's a guy without an ID. He needs to have done something. We get this narrative of "It's a top secret super crazy research facility, not having an ID makes you an intruder, intruders are bad, blue alert, search him, book him." This, in my view, does not help with any gimmick ever, and is not fun because it's a window into valid-hunting by the players who absolutely despise ninja and wizard antics (which is understandable, because teleport/vanish at will is often, often, often abused.

I'd also like to see us stop challenging people not having an ID on GREEN alert. There's no elevated suspicion, someone not having an ID, in common areas such as the bar, the hallways, the library, etc, should not be a problem. Yes, I know facilities exist in real life where not having a visitor tag gets you sent back to the gate to get one or sent home. I visit them myself all the time for work, but even in most of those places, it's just a nameless visitor tag, and no ID is checked (unless it's a government building). The station already has advanced, ID-required secure airlocks for all of the areas in which dangerous, high tech, or proprietary items can be procured.

I'll also note that Standard Operating Procedure does not include anything about considering someone without an ID an "intruder", nor a mandatory search for said individual, but this is what security does.

The other thing I've seen happening is that a ninja and wizard are both on station, and both choose to try to help the crew, against nothing, which is super boring.

Mind you, I generally do not play as wizard or ninja, this is mostly from the perspective of captain, watching these antags get straight up processed and dismantled or forced into high-level conflict before even having a chance to try a gimmick.

More Vampire, Less Ninja:

Of the types between Ninja and Wizard, the Ninja is especially frustrating to crew. They bring very little by way of including more players in a gimmick, are nearly impossible to detain without killing or utterly neutering them, and abuse their ability to vanish routinely to the frustration of everyone aboard (often to the point that the overload on messages of "omg intruder in X location" make me really regret even joining the round).

For this reason, I think that any mixed mode that includes a ninja should pretty much just remove the ninja and include a vampire or 3.

For one, vampires are pretty much non-existent in the current rotation of mixed secret/secret/extended.

Vampires include plenty of gimmick-fuel, from short time period domination to full on thralling to bring more people into the fold. They survive by being sneaky and taking advantage of crew via actual RP, and are nowhere near as murderbone as changeling on average.

I would be happy to see Vampires sprinkled in to any gamemode, and the antag role widened to any position aboard being viable to get the role. I'd like to see more random events that spawn them in antag-light modes, and I'd like to see more admins give people vampirism to spice up a dull round... but ultimately, I'd like to see them replace ninjas most of the time, since nobody really seems to like ninjas except for the guy playing them, which usually goes south in the first hour of a round.

Vampires fit well with the other mixed modes, as a blood-cult seems like the kind of thing that might attract vampires, wizards can be great vampire hunters, and they could even take advantage of revolution rounds as cover quite well. They blend with changelings and can throw blame and confusion into that mix, too.

Sorry this is long-winded, but, I've been thinking about it for a while, and reflecting on recent rounds, and really wanted to put it all together. I'll close with a couple of questions...

When was the last time you experienced a great ninja round where you weren't the ninja?

What did the ninja do to make it fun?

If you had a bit of trouble coming up with answers for those, or your answer is something from 2+ months ago, I think you should recognize the issue with ninja, and probably see how vampires would be a bit better alternative.

Thanks for reading, or not.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Vampire is the greatest mode in the game. Add more of it. We need it. We crave it. We desire it. I support this proposal.

[Skull132]

Need a mixed gamemode of cult + vamp. Called "Blood Moon" or something corny like that.

[Synnono]

Need a mixed gamemode of cult + vamp. Called "Blood Moon" or something corny like that.

 

I seem to remember a certain Head Developer shooting my hopes for this one down by saying they were going to incorporate elements of one mode into the other.

What happened there [mention]Skull132[/mention]? Are there still plans to do that?

[Skull132]

Need a mixed gamemode of cult + vamp. Called "Blood Moon" or something corny like that.

 

I seem to remember a certain Head Developer shooting my hopes for this one down by saying they were going to incorporate elements of one mode into the other.

What happened there Skull132? Are there still plans to do that?

 

Distant plans. Time is scarce, currently the economy and Z-level related projects are my priority. And this doesn't really relate to the other, as one would just be a cult power to spice up gameplay, the other a gamemode that would create antags from the get-go. The effect on gameplay is different.

[driecg36]

Not to self advertise, but vampire is my favorite antag and it's so rare to see them, since they aren't in ANY mixed secret modes.

It's partially why I wrote this suggestion: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8720, and even though I love mixed secrets, there are a lot of problems with it that result in situations like this where a great antag doesn't get to see the light of day (double entendre intended).

[Azande]

Js Blue is supposed to be used for suspected HOSTILE activity.

[sonicgotnuked]

I honestly think it is the players / head of staff who make these game modes not fun. I see the excuse multiple times, "THEY ARE BREAKING REGULATIONS JUST BY BEING ON THE STATION." I seen excuse where that turns into infiltration and it antagonizes the antags. Good head of staffs actually give a ID to peace ninja/wiz for the off chance it will be good. Other times I will have a gimmick, as ninja for example, and security would straight rush it and jump to arrests.

[Jetniss]

Everything here. +1

[driecg36]

I honestly think it is the players / head of staff who make these game modes not fun. I see the excuse multiple times, "THEY ARE BREAKING REGULATIONS JUST BY BEING ON THE STATION." I seen excuse where that turns into infiltration and it antagonizes the antags. Good head of staffs actually give a ID to peace ninja/wiz for the off chance it will be good. Other times I will have a gimmick, as ninja for example, and security would straight rush it and jump to arrests.

 

I mean, I understand officers that do that. Especially with ninja. With wizard, I usually just say "it's a dottering old man, let's get you your ID grandpa." The problem with ninja is that some unknown person comes onto the station with a high tech piece of software, unwarned.

If you really want to peace ninja/wiz, you should prolly ahelp and see the admins will announce your arrival as something to be expected. Or at the very least come through arrivals checkpoint instead of just popping up in the middle of the station.

[JKJudgeX]

There's no regulation that says a person has to be on the manifest or have an ID, by the way, nor does it say that in the SOP documents I've seen linked... just, as an addendum to this. When I'm captain, I try to discourage setting blue alert until something important has been stolen or someone has been seriously hurt or killed. Or bears or fully matured spiders or something like that where sec could use some extra authority and maybe weaponry to clear up the issue, then right back to green.

If that was how the station was supposed to be, no airlocks should open, anywhere, for someone who has no ID... as is the case in an actual classified facility, where even "common" areas like the cafeteria or restrooms require ID access.

[Kaed]

I honestly think it is the players / head of staff who make these game modes not fun. I see the excuse multiple times, "THEY ARE BREAKING REGULATIONS JUST BY BEING ON THE STATION." I seen excuse where that turns into infiltration and it antagonizes the antags. Good head of staffs actually give a ID to peace ninja/wiz for the off chance it will be good. Other times I will have a gimmick, as ninja for example, and security would straight rush it and jump to arrests.

 

When I'm HoP, I usually give them a chance to claim to be here for a logical reason. If they give me some really dumb answer, like they're a mysterious auditor here for vaguely defined reasons, or they're really good at jokes, then I give them the boot.

[JKJudgeX]

I honestly think it is the players / head of staff who make these game modes not fun. I see the excuse multiple times, "THEY ARE BREAKING REGULATIONS JUST BY BEING ON THE STATION." I seen excuse where that turns into infiltration and it antagonizes the antags. Good head of staffs actually give a ID to peace ninja/wiz for the off chance it will be good. Other times I will have a gimmick, as ninja for example, and security would straight rush it and jump to arrests.

 

I tend to agree here, which is why I spent a large portion of my "Move Vampire/Less Ninja" post describing this and bringing it up.

The way I've handled this in the past when security becomes super-aggressive over an ID and the manifest, is I repeatedly impose upon security the need to properly cite a regulation from the corporate regs that declares not having an ID trespassing. There isn't one, so, what happens is they start trying to wrangle the other regulations about trespassing and such into an interpretation that not having an ID means you are trespassing everywhere. This actually tends to end up working, but is often a lengthy back and forth with security that tends to result in people disliking or distrusting the person (usually captain in my case) who is pushing a strict reading of the regulations in favor of the visitor.

My issue here is that this gets really old having to go through the same logic, often with the same people (who are revving up their validhunt/metagaming, btw), in multiple rounds, and I've found myself not bothering with it lately and just letting security do what it will while I handle the other issues that pop up, which is unfortunate, but, I don't have the time or energy to type up the same 13 responses over and over... so yeah, I'd love it if this would actually be addressed officially.

I love the idea of a Blood Moon mixed round type, I'm 100% into that. I'd especially like it in conjunction with greatly reducing the likelihood of the "visitors" roundtype or the replacement of the ninja with some vampires. Vampires would seem to fit with a "paranoia" round type too.

Oh, and... guess who is on the manifest and has a fully qualified ID? That's right, vampires.

[TrickingTrapster]

If we are doing the blood moon thing, I would argue that vampires are immune to cult magic, seeing as it's both Veil magic. Cult weapons, sure, but no converting vampires. That would just be silly. Looking at you, conflux.

[Arrow768]

Once thats merged we should see more vampires around.

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/3337

(Adds two gamemodes with vampires to mixed secret)

Moving this to completed projects