[1 Dismissal] Revise Leg Actuators

[Kaed]

So, leg actuators are cool. They let you jump down holes without problems.

But like. They have to be turned on every time you want them to be used. Is there actually a reason they should ever be off, other than to troll people who take off the suit and put it back on and forget to check of the actuators are still on?

They should just be a thing that is always on for fall damage, and the jump ability is the only thing you need to fiddle with actively.

[Scheveningen]

Why don't internals automatically turn on every time you equip them? Why do we have to wait 10 seconds for hardsuits to be fully put on or taken off? Why can't everything in the game just be easier for my sake? Why do we have to enable magboots to avoid being pushed over by pressure changes?

Because remembering to turn the above on adds necessary depth to the game that requires people think and remember to enable the tools they intend to use. If they don't recall safety protocols before charging headlong into a potentially dangerous circumstance then they will suffer the consequence of it by getting hurt. They don't need changed or enabled by default because often more than not you don't need them on by default. The issue of falling is easily revised by the following: Not walking into an open space. If you want to walk into a hole while suffering zero damage then maybe you should remember to turn on your leg actuators before doing it.

The game wouldn't be fun if people didn't die violently for making small mistakes.

[Skull132]

There's actually a pragmatic reason for having them toggleable: every time they break your fall, they drain energy. To give the person more control over when they use energy, you can turn them off.

[Ornias]

"Yeah, dude, I broke my legs so I could save charge on my power cell. Nah, it's, like, for the conservation of company resources. I'm supporting minimizing emissions by conserving power. You wouldn't understand, you're not loyal enough, I love NT, haha."

[Kaed]

Stuff

The game wouldn't be fun if people didn't die violently for making small mistakes.

 

Wow, I- okay I'm not going to even respond to this, because it will just turn into another inane fight with you. Moving on. Just know I firmly disagree and leave it there.

 

There's actually a pragmatic reason for having them toggleable: every time they break your fall, they drain energy. To give the person more control over when they use energy, you can turn them off.

 

Given a choice between 'using power' and 'having all your bones break', is there actually a legitimate reason to choose 'having all your bones break', skull?

Please explain to me a situation where dying because you fell down a shaft in a hardsuit that definitely could have prevented that death due to it's module you chose to not turn on is a logical decision. Since you're making an argument here for consciously choosing to do that, rather than accidentally, which is the only reason I could fathom anyone would not have it on. You have piqued my interest.

Because, see. To me, it doesn't seem like there is any reason for them to be off that makes sense. You leave oxygen supplies off unless you need them, because they are consumed at a regular rate while they are on. You leave magboots off when you don't need them because they slow you down. However, leg actuators only consume power when they are performing their function (i.e. saving you from a fall), and have no movement penalty, so there is no reason to actually leave them off (other than as a possibly unnecessary pratfall for inexperienced/inattentive players). The 'downside' of them being on (losing power on a fall) vastly outweighs the benefits of having them on (not dying from a fall) to a degree where no one would ever turn them off if they were sane.

[Pratepresidenten]

This falls under the same thing as jetpacks. You can have them on+stabilizer while waltzing around inside, they wont deplete as long as you dont move over openturf.

Its just how shit is I guess?

[Scheveningen]

It's a failsafe in the event your jetpack isn't on, as well. It's helpful to have but if you have a filled oxygen tank it shouldn't be your major concern.

[Doc]

What if you couldn't remove your hardsuit/specifically the boots while the actuators are active?

"The rigid actuator system enclosing your legs refuses to budge while active!"

This way, people removing their hardsuit and putting it back on later don't slip it off completely forgetting they had actuators in the first place, and still have to turn them back on after putting it back on.

[Kaed]

What if you couldn't remove your hardsuit/specifically the boots while the actuators are active?

"The rigid actuator system enclosing your legs refuses to budge while active!"

This way, people removing their hardsuit and putting it back on later don't slip it off completely forgetting they had actuators in the first place, and still have to turn them back on after putting it back on.

 

This is the kind of solution I can get behind. An actual effect to having them on that serves as a subtle reminder.

I would have also accepted them not turning off every time you remove your suit, though.

[Skull132]

shitpost

 

# Do not derail the thread

# The usual forum rules still apply here.

 

What if you couldn't remove your hardsuit/specifically the boots while the actuators are active?

"The rigid actuator system enclosing your legs refuses to budge while active!"

This way, people removing their hardsuit and putting it back on later don't slip it off completely forgetting they had actuators in the first place, and still have to turn them back on after putting it back on.

 

Not a fan of this because no other piece of hardsuit equipment does this. Also, a suit effectively gets (I forget if it explicitly needs to be) powered down in order to retract in the first place. This implies cutting power to leg actuators and letting them flop freely.

 

Given a choice between 'using power' and 'having all your bones break', is there actually a legitimate reason to choose 'having all your bones break', skull?

Please explain to me a situation where dying because you fell down a shaft in a hardsuit that definitely could have prevented that death due to it's module you chose to not turn on is a logical decision. Since you're making an argument here for consciously choosing to do that, rather than accidentally, which is the only reason I could fathom anyone would not have it on. You have piqued my interest.

Because, see. To me, it doesn't seem like there is any reason for them to be off that makes sense. You leave oxygen supplies off unless you need them, because they are consumed at a regular rate while they are on. You leave magboots off when you don't need them because they slow you down. However, leg actuators only consume power when they are performing their function (i.e. saving you from a fall), and have no movement penalty, so there is no reason to actually leave them off (other than as a possibly unnecessary pratfall for inexperienced/inattentive players). The 'downside' of them being on (losing power on a fall) vastly outweighs the benefits of having them on (not dying from a fall) to a degree where no one would ever turn them off if they were sane.

 

Primary case is when you have items of duplicating functionality on your suit. Specifically, should ever another item with the ability to stop a fall be added, for example. The function that handles fall damage first checks through all of the possible conditions that would stop you from taking fall damage, and then halts at the first fulfilled one. In order to minimize the effect of arbitrary hierarchies created by coders writing those checks, user control is given over certain variables (ie. whether or not actuators are toggled on).

 

	// No gravity, stop falling into spess!
var/area/area = get_area(src)
if (istype(loc, /turf/space) || (area && !area.has_gravity))
	return FALSE

var/obj/item/weapon/rig/rig = get_rig()
if (istype(rig))
	for (var/obj/item/rig_module/actuators/A in rig.installed_modules)
		if (A.active && rig.check_power_cost(src, 10, A, 0))
			visible_message("<span class='notice'>\The [src] lands flawlessly with \his [rig].</span>",
				"<span class='notice'>You hear an electric <i>*whirr*</i> right after the slam!</span>")
			return FALSE

 

If ever into this series of checks is put another user controlled state, then without the user being able to toggle both of them, the decision would be arbitrary. Which is not ideal.

Also, regarding the jetpack comment. Stabilization and jetpack on are two different things. Something which people often forget about. Both drain air, at different rates. And there are valid use cases for having one on but not the other (specifically space free-float or no space free-float and its effects on fuel). I chose to go with stabilization required because it fits more: it's a constant operation, as opposed to being user-input driven like the main functionality of a jetpack.

[LordFowl]

Voting for dismissal. Stabilizers can be toggled, just don't be a scatterbrain and make sure they're on before you go leaping down a well.

[Alberyk]

Voting for dismissal. Toggling them or not already has a difference due to energy use.