Cloning Regulation/Mechanic Rework

[kyres1]

There have been plenty of requests already to remove cloning before on this forum, the most recent being a few months ago in October. I don't think this discussion should ever really fade away with how many people feel about it, and something good might come of looking into it further.

The most common deduction with the issue of cloning is just removing it altogether. Though, I think there's some merit to letting it exist - plenty of merit, actually. It is a research station after all, and it would make sense for something experimental like cloning to take place with volunteering individuals, namely employees. But there's a middle ground to be had here, which I'll say my opinion on now -

Cloning should stay, but a less insane approach - like DNCs being standard, and cloning procedures being nonstandard - would make more sense. In a workplace where death is so prominent, of course cloning would exist. And of course, many people would consider being cloned after death if they don't see a moral issue with it. The problem in this case is that the vast majority of people without DNCs, are simply people who haven't even set their records. This often leads to repetitive and boring role play, with people being cloned in mass who most commonly care little about the effects of being a clone, or how their character would react to the fact that they had just died.

Loredev input on the matter detailing why everyone would be set to clone by default would be nice. On rounds where the antagonists die and are non-crew, like raiders or mercs, and are cloned simply to be brigged immediately, or interrogated - one begins to question what the laws behind this even are. It makes total sense for NanoTrasen to consider an immoral approach like cloning its employees to keep its workforce bolstered. It's part of the lore - NanoTrasen is a gigantic, uncaring corporate entity. But crazy things like cloning have very big places in this game, and they need to be more clear cut and understandable.

tl;dr, make DNCs standard. If you want to participate in cloning, then you probably care enough to set "Postmortem instructions: Clone" in your records. no mechanics in game need to be changed or removed, only regulations at worst. everyone is happy

[Kaed]

I suggested this before with the whole 'cloning insurance' thing where you tick where your character has insurance or not in character creation, making the default 'no', and then you also only get certain cloning conditions based on your employee position.

[Bath Salts Addict]

This is a good suggestion, but this banks on the belief that anyone in Medical ever checks records before cloning. We all know that even the self-proclaimed medical "mains" regularly clone crew with DNCs in their record.

Must be all that unsanitary hair getting in their eyes.

[Faris]

I've never been a fan of removing cloning, but reworking it has been something I'd like to approach one day, if not very soon.

I suppose a more in-depth explanation here is warranted with something so pivotal as cloning.

[climax708]

It seems like the main issue is that cloning people is like "meh, shove them in and let them run out like nothing happened". It's a RP issue.

You know how we solve sub-par RP issues?

Whitelists!

How about you make everyone DNC by default (or MIF), but if you're whitelisted you get the option of being cloneable.

I'd like to share a RP experience I had in a different server regarding cloning:

Playing M.D, some expedition went horribly wrong and three dead bodies returned back to the station.

One of the bodies had the following post-mortem instructions:

- Remove prosthetic arm

- Clone

- Remove organic arm from clone

- Install prosthetic arm

In addition to adding some flavour to the cloning process (suddenly surgery is involved), this had a roleplaying implication:

- The character lost their arm in childhood due to some defect

- Suddenly waking up as an adult (as if nothing happened, because clone yo) with an arm would be like WTF

- If post-mortem instructions are not followed, gives character a reason for mental breakdown

Benefits: More fleshed out cloning process, potential for psychatrist roleplay if gone wrong, etc...

[Resilynn]

Eliminate all cloning, add defibs that only work if you use them within 5-10 minutes after death, set the damages back about 50 ticks (except do 25 burn to the chest or something), but do nothing to fix the actual problem that's killing someone. Suicides are still DNR, antags can still be DNR, you can still have DNR on your records.

[cloud]

I agree with [mention]Resilynn[/mention], I think a method of bringing people back shortly after death under the right circumstances (i.e. they haven't lost enough blood to be un-revivable, they aren't missing their head, they don't have huge amounts of brain damage) such as oxyloss due to loss of consciousness.

As cloning stands, right now especially, it is borderline meme with the way that certain disorders work (tourettes, anyone?) and the majority of players who are on regularly have DNC in their records. From a gameplay perspective, it allows people to be put instantly back into the round, but from an RP perspective, especially in hectic situations, it generally boils down to: you died here are your things.

Having the ability to resuscitate people would negate some of the punishment of dying and being taken out of the round, assuming your body isn't a shrapnel-riddled piece of garbage, whilst still maintaining some sense of believability and potentially adding more to RP than just, "You're a clone".

Yes, arguably, the situation shouldn't boil down to how it does above, but it generally does due to time constraints, busy round, players active in certain roles etcetera.

Though I think that Kyres' suggestion is a bit less heavy-handed, I'd personally support a complete removal of cloning.

[BurgerBB]

-2

I like none of the ideas presented this thread because it punishes the wrong people. I'm honestly baffled by some of the suggestions in this thread and I pray to god that they're never implemented. Making DNC standard unless stated is awful, it punishes new players and that's the worst thing you can do in a server. Removing cloning altogether is awful, as it punishes non-antags who fall victim to shit level antags.

Want to actually punish people who don't give a shit about death? Cloning people will register them unfit for duty and assigned to visitor status. No more will you have officers pop out of cloning and immediately jump back into action. That would solve almost all problems with cloning.

[SleepyWolf]

One issue with defibs, and 'limited time' to resurrect. It makes Medical have to completely subvert security a lot of the time. Let's say a murderer slices someones throat - one dead, and security and CSI are at the scene doing analysis. Paramedics would basically be having to bullshit around and rush 100% of the time, maybe subverting actual investigations. We already had some issues with this a while ago where paramedics would just grab people with no roleplay. That's what I have to say about defibs.

[Resilynn]

One issue with defibs, and 'limited time' to resurrect. It makes Medical have to completely subvert security a lot of the time. Let's say a murderer slices someones throat - one dead, and security and CSI are at the scene doing analysis. Paramedics would basically be having to bullshit around and rush 100% of the time, maybe subverting actual investigations. We already had some issues with this a while ago where paramedics would just grab people with no roleplay. That's what I have to say about defibs.

 

I mean, this is how it works IRL too, though. Someone's life always comes before preserving a crime scene, always.

[Scheveningen]

Add neural laces. It's the best way to mechanically regulate who gets cloned or not.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

DNC's being standard is a punishment to new players. Extremely mean spirited idea. I do not want to be denied a respawn on my first round of Aurora because I did not fill out my records. That would sour my experience.

No matter what policies we have, cloning is responded to by the players themselves. Even if we replaced cloning with a defib, we'd have a faction upset that people were not roleplaying grief enough at their near death experience.

[MO_oNyMan]

One issue with defibs, and 'limited time' to resurrect. It makes Medical have to completely subvert security a lot of the time. Let's say a murderer slices someones throat - one dead, and security and CSI are at the scene doing analysis. Paramedics would basically be having to bullshit around and rush 100% of the time, maybe subverting actual investigations. We already had some issues with this a while ago where paramedics would just grab people with no roleplay. That's what I have to say about defibs.

 

If that's the only problem you see with defibs then it's easily fixable with a device (some sort of a coroner's analyzer) that when used on a deceased crewmember shows how long has he been dead (how much time do you have left until the brain activity fades and defibs will no longer work). This way a dead body that is found gets scanned with this device and either defibbed and hauled to medbay or pronounced dead and left where it is for security to do their job. Devices can be standard issue to paramedics and forensic techs

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Any sort of time sensitive aspect of cloning will make crime scenes a constant battleground between medical and security.

[Bauser]

... moreso than crime scenes are already a battleground between medical and security just because people gotta get dat respawn.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

do what i do and flash the paramedics

[Scheveningen]

Even though I suggested the neural lace thing, I still think cloning regulation should be an opt-out thing that a player chooses versus opt-in. When you create a system that's opt-X, the majority people are going to use the default not always knowing there's an alternative opt choice.

Having laces allows people to decide through mechanical restrictions whether their character should be cloned or not, but that's mostly just tangentially related to the suggestion if not a standalone issue on its own. Which I think would be more interesting but that's just me.

[Bauser]

What even is a neural lace

[ToasterRoboto]

Make it opt-in at creation and for the love of god add defibs.

[Saudus]

Defibs could be fun and good on their own without this policy shift to cloning. Whilst flavor wise I like the idea of needing to opt in to cloning, I think this is a case where in game policy and flavor has to take a backseat to OOC considerations (for the reasons people have already mentioned).

[ToasterRoboto]

bump