Scheveningen

Didn't we say job-hopping to this extent was not okay, especially due to the degree of skills required to do so? If human characters can't do this, why can IPCs? Why do they get preferential treatment? I don't think staff has been in the business of ever wiping notes from a person's record unless the note is completely unreasonable and abusive. Notes are designed to help other staff members get an idea of what the most recent staff confrontation over a recent issue is. If it was worse than that, it should be addressed as a warning. I think only warnings should ever be appealed at this point. This is kind of a really odd case because this is a retired admin opening a complaint over something they would normally not even see in the first place . I fail to see what was unreasonable with this resolution.

I think this is an interesting idea at least worth entertaining and trying out to see if it's functional and to the liking of the playerbase. It would disrupt the round-start balance perhaps a tad but it would actually reward scientists to consistently keep research efforts to a T, just to have convenient tools/equipment on demand. So I think it is worth it, to have carry-over consequence influence R&D to be more of a valid presence on-station and not a chore.

Well yeah I imagine. It would be Mofo's call to make, though.

Cyborgs: Nah. They are an MMI. It makes no sense. Organic processor hooked up to machine hardware. Androids: Plausible. Very plausible, they are positronic. Robots: Nah. They are actual robotic processors. They are meant to be simpler than androids fluff-wise.

On the flip side it'd be rather hilarious to get friendly-noogied by a security officer mid-combat because they're on the wrong intent. Anything that adds interesting flavor would be totally fine by me. Optional stuff that harms nothing if anyone wanted to actually put effort into this.

I do feel full disqualification is unreasonable. It is more fair to disqualify someone for the role if they were recently punished through game mechanics in dying in some recent manner rather than facing the full punishment for the rest of the round, which would instead enforce that they do not get to participate in the round as that particular role. It is more reasonable to throw a wrench into the works of certain individuals taking advantage of a role that may require a ghost but has much stronger impact on the round than diona nymphs, mice or drones do. I only have a particular issue with recent deaths getting an immediate free pass for guns, gear and authority, despite that the respawn timer is meant to at least take them out of the round long enough to be of some benefit to the antagonists raising hell on the station.

Why don't we just make modular guns not suck? Only the nuclear reactor should ever have occasional "malfunctions" and that's just when they irradiate you.

Why was this even implemented in the first place? What was missing that justified this change?

unfortunate but understandable.

Objective fairness doesn't exist. Your point on fairness is irrelevant. A majority ruling is a majority ruling. Objective fairness has no room to factor into the equation. More people wanted one game mode more than what other people coordinated to vote for another. Why would you have it any other way?

Majority is also important in voting for a game mode because only one of them can be picked. Looks like you ran into another dead end here.

That is not how voting is supposed to work. Have you ever participated in an actual political election? If you vote for an independent with zero polling for interest, you're throwing your vote away by technicality, but for purposes of statistics it does matter to whatever interest you voted for. The purpose of a vote is that it is meant to gauge consideration for a specific interest or agenda. If that interest is outnumbered by overwhelming votes considered for a different interest, then it loses. The ultimate objective of voting schemes is the hope your vote will win by numerical advantage. This totally undermines that, for some reason?

Okay, apparently you have now established that objective unfairness doesn't exist. Injustice is completely imagined therefore anything is justifiable with your viewpoint. So nothing can possibly be wrong with your suggestion if you just ignore my previous criticisms and inflate them as formed on a basis of "imagined issues". So okay, I can totally work with this logic. So now we're back to, "Well this wouldn't really change anything", apparently, being your argument. And I agree. It is not meaningful enough of a change to be worth investing any amount of effort in doing because the same system is already incorporated in secret. If you want this, just vote secret. It's already being done. What is the actual point of all of this if we're going to revisit this subject in May? Why change anything at all? Objective unfairness doesn't exist. There's no injustice to people getting extended in secret, it's what they vote for. Nothing is wrong with the current status quo, it doesn't need changes. You could just vote secret and achieve exactly the same effect here.

That 5% chance basically worked against the will of 95% of everyone else, though, they overwhelmingly voted other game modes for a reason. Why does a tiny minority even get considered? Because the dice roll matters more than what an overwhelming majority voted for? It's only fair to that 5%, because a system actually benefited their wishes and not anyone else's, they have no room to complain in that case. Then again it's really easy to bitch about losing, right? In the same vein I think someone has a point when someone's vote gets trashcanned even if it was in the majority, even if no other game mode received more votes than theirs, even if their vote accounted for more than 50% of all accounted for votes. RNG is a very capricious variable and it's important to keep it in check. As opposed to this situation, which makes 95% of the players in this scenario have their vote be worth shit? What if extended was the 5% and auto-traitor was the 30% instead, and extended won this vote? Does that make this system any more fair? I'd be pretty damn bitter if the system decided to put a game mode in that only myself and the other 5% of the lobby even voted for as the defined game mode, because that's just unfair. Just because it's unlikely to happen doesn't mean it's not going to happen. It's statistically unlikely you'll have people fight tooth and nail with equal amounts of votes fighting for extended and secret, yet it happens pretty often. And now we compare to the current system, and nobody complains if malf only got 1 vote because that one guy at least has a pretty darn good chance of having it be in secret, which allows them to fundamentally change their vote to secret to at least get a better chance at antagonizing than they had with voting malf. You know what's nice about the current voting system? A game mode gets initially voted in due to actual physical influence and not entirely due to a random nature, only secret does that so it becomes impossible to adequately enable metagamers. The best judge of who decides what the game mode should be is the people actually playing the fucking game. Secret is special. You purposefully vote for the game mode to be kept secret from you and everyone else until you have played the round for awhile. That's what it says and implies. You could very easily vote for another game mode if you wanted to, but you can't complain if a bunch of other people besides you want to vote for a game mode kept secret from them.

You know what sucks? This sucks. Can we make it not suck and have it either re-size automatically or we can use something native to the forum to re-size an image without having to go through paint just to do an avatar update?

Okay. Let's assume 100 people vote across the various game modes. For the sake of my argument I'm not going to use the dual-antag type game modes to keep this less confusing. This is exactly what you're suggesting, by the way. EXTENDED - 30 votes. MALFUNCTION - 5 votes. MERCENARY - 7 votes. WIZARD - 13 votes. CHANGELING - 0 votes. CULT - 15 votes. AUTOTRAITOR - 10 votes. VAMPIRE - 10 votes. HEIST - 0 votes. REVOLUTION - 0 votes. NINJA - 10 votes. End result: Secret - Malfunction, because a computerized dice roll decided it knew better than an overwhelming majority did. It's only fair! Extended may have a 30% chance of being voted in through overwhelming numbers, but it won't matter because it has to contend with the 70% chance of it being another game mode. I will say for the sake of argument this is less significant when there are less participants (actually, wrong, it may be more significant with less participants) in a data set, but this may also work against people voting for extended because they'll have potentially less of an advantageous margin. Then when we consider an actual margin of error, such as demonstrated with Malfunction being voted in by the 5% margin, it is due to factors completely out of the control of the player voting for the game mode. Meaning your vote would matter way less than it would matter in a system defined by majority vote. There is no sense of agency here. All you do with your vote is just help the computer determine what's best for you, and not actually voting in good conscience of what you want voted in as a game mode. You've created more problems with this system than how it is currently. If the computer rolls a dice between 1 and 100, if it falls anywhere outside 1 to 30, you don't get extended. Period. It doesn't matter that a lot of people voted for extended. The computer knows what's best, according to the system you designed here, not the general consensus. Most notably, this would more seriously screw with statistic gathering because there'd be nothing significant with voting extended if the computer randomly determines what the game mode will be outside of the will of the players voting for what they want. And that is more worthy promoting than just removing their ability to make decisions for themselves or for a collective effort to get a certain round type voted in. Would it be nice for every round type that's voted in to always display as secret unless it's extended, especially if it's secret-extended, so that you don't waste the time of people who only join for antagonists, or to be an antagonist? Yes. Absolutely. Do we need to go all the way here and and inevitably revisit this subject again in May? I hope not. Anyone who supports extended remaining in secret currently won't want this. Anyone who supports having a voting system that actually physically matters will not want this.

I don't feel it's that absurd. Tajarans have a particular OOC stigma that I assume Mofo is trying not to meet here.

No, it definitely speaks of the absurdity of the mechanic. Ad hominem doesn't suit to help you here.

I did read it. You're accomplishing the same objective of the last several threads that were denied. What makes you think the administrators would pass this through, too? This still is masked as, "Remove X from secret", though, especially considering you're radically changing what "random" actually means on virtue of completely removing the meaningful random element to it. Some game modes will get no participation at all. Edit: Actually, no. See my next post where I actually detail where improperly implemented RNG can work to the detriment of the players.

But then you'd still consciously metagame knowing there are antagonists in the round. Extended is in the secret rotation so that players are supposed to treat the round as if it were possibly extended and be discouraged from metagamey behavior. This won't solve anything. As you've said before, rules existing doesn't stop people from exhibiting the same behavior and eventually breaking them anyway.

Except you can't suspend your disbelief for it because that theory of medicine was given up for germ theory since the 1880s. Compare with the in-game 'now' of 2460 and you'd be hard-pressed to take anyone seriously if they posited that obesity is directly linked to inhaling the odor of food. Study of germs is a major focus in virology. It wouldn't be very practical to take several steps back in our real-life understanding of disease in favor of adding arbitrary consequence to something that doesn't really need it. The better solution would be to remove the random generation in diseases as a part of events and instead create highly robust and developer-tailored common diseases with various levels of infectiousness, rate of progression and severity in symptoms. Some would be as simple as the common cold that aren't terribly difficult to kick, and other diseases should be extremely nasty but have exclusive ways of transmitting new germs.

You've read the thread and built a genuine grasp of the issue/situation and it shows Does repeated behavior for over five months count as a recurring to you? Because I think it's a pretty noteworthy server issue, Scheveningen, how complacent the server is with whitelist applicants playing nice and just telling people what they want to hear to get their whitelist accepted, and then doing absolutely nothing whatsoever to actually uphold the roleplay standards they acted like they were interested in. A Tajara who writes an adequately knowledgeable story for their whitelist about how the war on ahdomai has effected their life, and then when accepted completely drops all pretenses and makes a purple colored cutesy fursona insert that has no ties whatsoever to the lore should not be acceptable, because they don't give a shit. An unathi applicant that makes a big deal about how totally into the traditions and struggles in unathi society they are, and when accepted just makes a random dude who snuggles xenos and doesn't bother to be anything but a scaled human should not be acceptable, because they're a fursona and they don't give a shit. Based on the same logic, an IPC applicant that makes a big deal about how interesting the intricacies of being a liberated computer slave trying to find its place in the world, and understand and adapt to human emotion and influence, and then turns around and makes a bright colorful walking memebot that exists solely to cuddle with other robots and works as an eternal security cadet should not be acceptable either. 5 months since ODIN's application was accepted, 5 months of them knowing the issue and not giving a fuck. 5 months is a lot of minutes. I think it's more than 20 It's remarkable that you make such a big deal about addressing the real issues but when the subject of actually upholding the whitelist standards comes up suddenly its just not that big a deal you guys who cares more on. The whitelists may as well be auto-accept at this point. They're a joke. there were 3 IPCs in security in this round. It was Talc as an officer, another officer IPC and ODIN as a cadet. I'm largely defending the two officers and not ODIN, because I am fully aware of ODIN's history and I made a mistake in initially assuming ODIN was someone else. I don't think Jenna was attempting to be malicious (plus i know for certain they keep their silliness very much contained among other people) but I believe you if you've said Sytic, as ODIN, has been extremely problematic. But again, this isn't really a whitelist issue, this is an OOC behavior thing that would ideally be supplemented by a server ban, because the goofiness attributed to ODIN would lead to a server ban if it was a new player joining for the first time and acting like this. I'd address the other points in your paragraphs but I'd end up completely diverging from the source subject. I agree that you're right about ODIN, but from what I witnessed, the two IPC officers were doing fine, I wasn't paying much attention to the cadet aside from witnessing ODIN stall for the longest time when threatened by the two subverted IPCs to insert themselves into a hacked APC.

Couldn't we keep the research facilities and just furnish a gigantic Expo for the second facility floor? I've no idea whether the IT department's gonna be a thing in the nearest future or not.

Did someone really say phoron-research is non-existent on Aurora? Phoron's a part of every major medicinal recipe and for the deadly chemical weapons, too, in addition to how much phoron is related in R&D schematics, the supermatter engine and many other minor applications.

I'm not sure if it was some staff or some players that were discussing it, but an idea was bounced around that ERT could be disabled for revolution to let everything boil over station-side. But this is not really relevant in the grand scheme of gang especially since of the low chance this'll be accepted.