Nikov

I ran a poll on this four years ago. 13.85% wanted to keep LIs as they were. Everyone else wanted a change. 26% wanted them removed. 10% wanted them not policed by administration. 49% of them wanted them defined with laws. This was a crystal clear mandate to change loyalty implants, with no action taken whatsoever. The case has been made and it is absolutely clear. Garn, you are claiming the fear is misplaced of a bwoink and whitelist strip. At the time of this post, you said, "I fucking hate these stupid things. Mostly for OOC reasons though. Lots of arguments have been had between staff on punishing someone implanted and then we have to have a thing "why would An implanted person do this" and then they say "no he would because raisins".". You hate me quoting you, but there. That's the argument. The gameplay concern is that the captain or HoS will be converted into cult or some other antag group. Okay. Simple solution. Add an item that prevents them from joining the antags. We call this item a mindshield. It has a minimum amount of influence on roleplay otherwise. Alternatively? Add a loyalty implant that can be used to railroad players with a constant voice in their head that goes BWOINK if they stray from it. That will never fuck up anyone's round. Fucked up my round so badly I never played Captain again.

Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug. Nice forty-five posts there chief. Joined after SsethTide? Garn, this is the problem. A lot of players will say I am an excellent antag who goes to lengths to play to lose scenarios, but someone who has never met me sees four year old notes and presumes I'm a shitter. Do you have a habit of documenting positive interactions? Do admins and mods return to note if players have improved in their opinion? They don't. There are only negative marks. And while Alberyk saw fit to pump the brakes and speak with me, he didn't tell me to not continue. He just laid a note out which a trial admin dutifully complied with. I now have two notes on me; one for not roleplaying in advance of attacking (stalking someone to an isolated room doesn't count I suppose) and another for not escalating. I already tried to kill the mime the first time. How much escalation is required to try to kill the mime a second time? Security, meanwhile, loved the murder mystery and the story, and thought it was perfect. The primary role of the antagonist is to make roleplay for the station. I made roleplay for the station. My last warning was one from 2018 and another from 2017. Is that a problem player? I spoke to you about this, Garn. You told me I did not have the note record of someone who seemed not long for this server. Yet clearly, another trial admin thinks I am. When you see a player going back four years who hasn't had a warning all year, one warning last year, and a warning the year before; why are you assuming two warnings in three years make a bad player. It is really strange how every appeal I have to post involves trial moderators who cite my notes.

I don't have logs. I was informed by the trial admin that 'in light of your record of notes going back years I am telling you that you need to be a better antag rper'. Except... you yourself have stated that notes going back that are 'a lot less relevant'. This is not the first time this problem has arisen. There have been multiple threads and ban appeals on the subject of trialmins viewing my notes from 2015 and taking actions that ended up overturned. Always, my notes play into their perceptions. I'm just asking for a clean slate so I can move on without play from 2015, and behaviors I've long since stopped engaging in, coloring the perception of new moderators in 2019. I've taken many of these notes to heart, such as AFKing when a single slot role or cryoing carrying a vital object. Some of these notes predate the Aurora II and date back to the Exodus. Actually, most of them do. I play less and less because it seems being an antag is under rising scrutiny every round I play due to the note accumulation.

BYOND Key: Nikov Staff BYOND Key: Garnascus Game ID: N/A Reason for complaint: This is an unconventional request. It is not directed at an individual staff member but a system of accumulating small problems. I have been playing on this server since 2015, and over the course of four years, have acquired some number of notes and warnings. Many of these are old, some are new. My most recent warning is from 2018, yet "a history of warnings" has been cited as proof I need to "improve my antag RP" by a trialmin. I do not care to go line-by-line through my warnings and notes going back four years, and have never cared to drag individual warnings into staff complaints and appeals. I simply ask this. Given that notes dating back to 2015 are still being used against me in 2019 by trialadmins who do not have the context to understand improvement of play since the time of those notes, I would like my formal record purged. Individual administrators and senior staff know me and will continue to know me. Most, I hope, think I am a decent player. However four years of records being presented to someone who has never met me colors their impression of me at first glance, and given that multiple ban appeals have been made regarding trialmins citing my notes or past warnings, I feel this has become a self-perpetuating problem, and not one based on my present behavior, but based on my distant, prior behavior. Quote Having huge sheets of notes and warnings isnt necessarily a bad thing. We look for patterns of consistent behavior when we ban someone. After about three months or so a note or a warning becomes a lot less relevant. Unless you're an odd case where you have months of inactivity and then you go back to being a massive shithead. Cases like that are super rare though. -- Garnascus Long after three months, I am having four-year-old notes leveled against me. Unless I am a massive shithead (and I'm certain I can be on occasion) I'd like a clean slate presented to people who don't otherwise know me. If I am a massive shithead, I'd like a clean slate so I can respect a bwoink as an individual action being judged individually, and not feel that outdated records are coloring all of my interactions with new staff members. Until then, why risk it. I've turned all my antag roles off.

CKEY: Nikov This is an unconventional request. I have been playing on this server since 2015, and over the course of four years, have acquired some number of notes and warnings. Many of these are old, some are new. My most recent warning is from 2018, yet "a history of warnings" has been cited as proof I need to "improve my antag RP" by a trialmin. I do not care to go line-by-line through my warnings and notes going back four years, and have never cared to drag individual warnings into staff complaints and appeals. I simply ask this. Given that notes dating back to 2015 are still being used against me in 2019 by trialadmins who do not have the context to understand improvement of play since the time of those notes, I would like my formal record purged. Individual administrators and senior staff know me and will continue to know me. Most, I hope, think I am a decent player. However four years of records being presented to someone who has never met me colors their impression of me at first glance, and given that multiple ban appeals have been made regarding trialmins citing my notes or past warnings, I feel this has become a self-perpetuating problem, and not one based on my present behavior, but based on my distant, prior behavior. Long after three months, I am having four-year-old notes leveled against me. Unless I am a massive shithead (and I'm certain I can be on occasion) I'd like a clean slate presented to people who don't otherwise know me. If I am a massive shithead, I'd like a clean slate so I can respect a bwoink as an individual action being judged individually, and not feel that outdated records are coloring all of my interactions with new staff members.

Balancing out the combat strengths of an IPC by making it a programmed semi-passive "Mall Cop" which attempts to socially defuse situations rather than enforce petty offenses is a very interesting inversion of the "robocop" concept. +1

It seems to me that IRs and hammering people down when they start playing "action movie" might be part of the "sec vs antag only" problem.

I used to Chief Engineer a lot, and now very little. Engineering is largely a player-versus-environment mode, and an enormous amount of antags are player-versus-player. There are no rounds where the station endures a meteor bombardment for two hours. Even if we had this, the shield generators render breaches rare, if ever, and only to be really had on the difficult-to-re pressurize departures bay. Slackening the rules stranglehold on environmental antagonism (breaches and fires) will make engineering great again. Specifically. I was being a sneaky traitor for two hours, colluding with the AI, abducting the RD, killing her. Whoopsie. Security failed to find out what I was up to. But when 1:45 rolled around and I realized we were going to crew transfer unless it went to red alert, and without an escape pod I couldn't fulfill my goal of "exit on escape pod with hostage". So I tried to adminhelp permission to set up a slow supermatter failure. Specifically, bypass almost all of the radiator, which would gradually overheat the core. The core would delaminate in a number of minutes unless ejected, and ejecting it would cause the power to fail and chaos to ensue. Even with only fifteen minutes left on the clock before the round was over and everyone starts voting on if they're ready to go home, the admin declined this. Why? I hadn't escalated. I got a lecture on escalation. Its 15 minutes left on the clock, and murdering a woman isn't enough escalation. I have to have a running gun battle with Security and really stick my neck out to get captured taking stupid risks before I'm allowed to do anything "fun". I've been bwoinked before for other things, like opening welder tanks and sloshing fuel all over maintenance halls. This isn't sufficiently escalated. Apparently leaving traps around to kill or maim unwitting smokers can't be the start of my escalation. They would knock one person out until their body was recovered and cloned, which is made easy thanks to sensors and fire alarms. Instead I have to start by submitting a strongly worded letter to the Captain telling him I will be his traitor today and ask his security team to not instantly hold to transfer now that they have this signed confession. People need to be trusted more as good actors and less as griefing randoms who just joined the server yesterday. Get rid of shield generators. Loosen the prohibition on fires, breaching, bombs and even supermatter fuckery. Give people stuff to run away from.

Kaed, so with the understanding I have been warned for being too aggressive toward the AI, I hope you at least see my self-interest in not repeating that behavior. Azande, that last bit is how I also read the situation. There was some fuckup in the final minutes due to my magboots being off and people spacewinding. I never saw what happened to the nun, but I did get her into a softsuit. So to amend: AI blows up the HoP, although needlessly, CE tries to laugh it off CE tries to get the AI to an escape pod AI blows them up anyway, chaplain is probably doomed if they didn't get a jumpsuit CE still tries to find the AI to help it Should be AI blows up the HoP, although needlessly, CE tries to laugh it off CE tries to get the nun into a softsuit and take the party to an escape pod Damage from the HoP explosion spacewinds the CE, cyborg and nun off the Z level, although the CE is not aware this happened to the nun or cyborg. The AI is subsequently bumped into a hole. CE survives thanks to his jetpack and goes after the nun, but gives up the search when he presumes she is on her way to the pods.

"The CE's apparent lack of sympathy, especially towards the captain, which I would like @Nikov to expand on, they've only addressed the HoP's death." Somehow the captain's death report did not fully register with me. Manfred didn't know this captain (or this hop), was aware the Captain had destroyed the AI's only cyborg "friend", and like most people getting killed by the AI, had conspired with the AI. He's standing in with the turrets at the time. If he chooses this opportunity to admonish the AI he might get himself and the nun killed, but if he doesn't there is a chance to win more favor with the AI and so be someone he will listen to. This is similar to the reaction to Dawnguard or the HOP; they were doing the opposite of what Manfred thought was the best way to solve the AI problem, and admonishing the AI for killing perceived enemies that Manfred did not have any sort of friendship with anyway would only further endanger Manfred and jeopardize his plan. "And the CE's continued support to the AI, which I believe is valid, the AI still had the keys to the nuke, if your character was only appeasing them, but the quality of the announcements and the gravity of NT's actions leaves you little to care for them, and actually compels you to help the AI, while the HoP's death may have been questionable, the HoP was clearly on NT's side, and wanted to follow through with the shut down order, and can considered an acquaintance to NT's schemes." My continued support of the AI was rooted in the AI having the keys to the nuke for one and the desire to not prove himself a complete liar to a ten year old boy. Which, if the AI is a human brain inside of a super-MMI, Manfred viewed not only as being that ten year old boy, but both able to be reunited with his family and able to be restored to his body and life through cloning. The mother being actively murdered only shifted his focus toward the father and further entrenched the "fuck NT" part of his psyche. So far as concern for the nun, she did have a softsuit on and he lost sight of her when he fell into a hole. When he returned to the Z level she was gone, and forced-open firelocks made Manfred presume she was making her way out with the cyborg assisting her, although he was trying to chase her down. Now Kaed, are you saying Manfred is an incompetent buffoon, or I am an incompetent buffoon? And "The problem here was that Manfred Hayden decided to join in the role specifically empowered to resolve a malfunctioning AI situation," makes me wonder if you are parsing the difference in the first place. From this subforum's rules; "Do not use ad hominem. This means do not attack a person's character (character in this case meaning the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual). You are expected to argue the presented ideas, not the person. If someone were to attack you, don’t take matters into your own hands, report it to us."

Well, that Twilight Zone episode was featured in a recent Andrew Klavan Show segment "Stuff I Like" which I happen to listen to almost daily. Mark Zuckerberg and the New Cornfield BY ANDREW KLAVAN MARCH 16, 2018 CHAT 185 COMMENTS "It's a Good Life" is widely considered one of the greatest episodes of The Twilight Zone. It tells the story of a six-year-old boy named Anthony who has extraordinary mental powers. In his efforts to protect himself from anything that disturbs him, he has isolated his little town of Peaksville, Ohio, from the outside world. Any person, thing or idea he finds discordant he destroys and then banishes into an esoteric nowhere he calls "the cornfield." As a result, the surviving adults around him live in terror of expressing an unpleasant thought. Anthony, who can never be taught or disciplined, has no sense of right and wrong and can't understand why no one will play with him. Whatever he does, no matter how destructive, the grown-ups have to reassure him: "It's good, Anthony. It's good." So that was the 16th of this month. Nine days later, this little event happens. Six days later, we're still here. I will answer the direct questions of the moderating powers. If I haven't covered something. I'm not going to defend against every accusation leveled against me, only those said moderators deem important. I suspect nothing I say will satisfy Kaed as he saw fit to raise this thread when I wanted to discuss the matter after the round initially.

The laugh was at the absurdity and the stress of it. I was hoping to explain to said 10 year old kid with godlike powers that killing people is wrong and isn't able to be justified when the people he's killing has nothing to do with his mother's death. But the ball kept rolling, so there wasn't a chance to get into a moral debate with the AI. Look, I might have some outside inspiration about how to deal with a homicidal, all-powerful child. I was playing something other than the hero for a round while still being its active participant and in-character, and I'm surprised it is causing me so much grief.

Contributions to a player complaint thread should be things you saw, not accepting the premise of a complaint, presuming it correct with no supporting evidence, and then contributing gossip. Otherwise any baseless accusation would be accepted as fact. My takeaway is that you thought the AI gimmick was event-quality. It certainly was.

You probably should have whispered something to me at some point, if that was your plan. This is what the Captain's wishes were to me. The Captain and I talking to the AI through a holopad... A holographic image of Robbie Culling flicks to life right before your eyes! [Common] Edgar Dawnguard stammers, "AI Up-p-pl-load acc-c-ces-s-ss-s" Manfred Hayden says, "Hi Robbie." [Common] Edgar Dawnguard stutters, "I'm-m b-bol-lt-ted-d-d in-n" Robbie Culling declares, "YOU'LL PAY FOR THIS, EVIE WAS MY ONLY FRIEND!" [Common] Edgar Dawnguard stutters, "T-Too m-muc-ch-h b-bl-l-lood-d." [Common] Edgar Singh says, "Robbie its gonna be ok" Priority Announcement Attention crew, to clarify, the cyborg EVE was locked down for attempting to kill Director Dawnguard. -Casimir Fontaine (Captain) Manfred Hayden says, "Listen kid. I didn't hurt Evie." Robbie Culling states, "I-i'll KILL YOU" [Common] Lilium Argentium asks, "W-what...?" Manfred Hayden says, "Neither of us did." [Command] Ickthar Slithiss asks, "Captain, are you alright?" Robbie Culling declares, "Activate your suit, Manny!" Casimir Fontaine yells, "Robbie, EVE was trying to kill dawnguard!" Manfred Hayden says, "In fact, I want to hurt the people who are hurting you." Casimir Fontaine says, "We all do." Robbie Culling declares, "Dawnguard brought a gun into my hiding spot!" Manfred Hayden asks, "Did you have an older brother?" Robbie Culling declares, "He was a mean man!" [Common] Edgar Dawnguard stutters, "M-Med-dic-cal, en-n-ng-g-g-gineer-r-ring-g-g-g, h-h-h-how c-c-c-cl-los-se ar-re y-you?" [Common] Casimir Fontaine says, "Chaplain, get to the bridge." Casimir Fontaine talks into the captain's headset Casimir Fontaine says, "Chaplain, get to the bridge." [Common] Rez Adesida says, "They can't get through the doors, Dawnguard." [Common] Edgar Dawnguard stammers, "Too m-muc-ch-h b-bl-l-l-lood-d ev-ver-r-r-ry-yw-wh-her-r-re." [Common] Ali Holmes says, "The paramedic should be there." Robbie Culling states, "No, I was mommy's only kid... She told me, I was her special one because she couldn't have kids before me1" [Common] Monna Fisher says, "AI, I'm unarmed and I can't really hurt you" [Command] Rez Adesida says, "Captain, we need you to let EMS access the AI upload. I can't let them." [Common] Johnny Flux asks, "Is this one of those horror stations? That people pay to go to get scared?" [Common] Monna Fisher says, "Let me in" Manfred Hayden says, "Your mother was the world to you too, wasn't she." Radio transmissions... [Common] Casimir Fontaine says, "Jamison-Johnson, stand down. We are not harming the boy." More, now in the core... [Command] Casimir Fontaine says, "We have asked the Mother Reverend to calm down the poor boy." [Common] Adrian Jamison-Johnson says, "I also think we should first be concerned with our safety." Manfred Hayden asks, "You do have the card, right Slithiss?" I personally let the nun die? I slipped and fell down a Z level. I never saw what happened next. I never figured out what happened to the nun, even though I looked for her. Hell, following the crowbar'd doors, I was assuming the cyborg got her to safety. My efforts were, the whole time, to play the scene. Manfred recognized this ten year old kid had a nuclear bomb over all his friends, that his career was somewhat less important than his and their lives, and that if the ten year old kid wants to put the gun-wielding HOP who's angling to kill him in violation of the Captain's perceived, if late, wishes... well, put him in time out. You died in the last ten minutes of an AI round because, although you were angling to stab it in the back, you got yourself stabbed. Its like we play a game about paranoia, mixed loyalty and betrayal. Manfred isn't loyalty implanted and if Nanotrasen is demonstrably cutting the brains out of little kids and shooting their mothers over the radio... I'm breaking character to -not- side with the victim of the dystopian grimdark corporation. Besides, I've been warned and scolded and even banned for being too aggressive against AI's. Here's one clearly playing a scene you can talk your way through. What an opportunity for us to talk our way through it, not whip out a pistol like you planned and just cold-cock murder it in a conversation. Shit, its like I was on an HRP server where a malf AI got solved by something other than an emitter to the core.

I could have sworn sending the nun into the core to comfort the little boy was your idea. since she came in with you and with the intellicard. I could have sworn we were going about a different sort of malf AI round than 'oh no blue APCs emitter the core'. I could have sworn a lot of people were commenting how the round gimmick was an interesting twist. So, yeah. If the little boy AI is going to nuke the whole place and kill everyone unless you talk him down from it... Manfred's totally in character to try and talk him down from it. Especially as you brought the nun down to Manfred and the AI in what can only be described as a specific effort to talk the AI down from killing everyone. The mind boggles. https://pastebin.com/nQQeXGWM

>doesn't play for months at a time >still ties for second place The man, the myth, the legend.

+1. Not everyone with a whitelist needs to be playing 24/7. Quality over quantity, BSA. Sometimes a man tries to have a little fun and unwind and people play along, but sometimes it goes sideways. Still, what happens if the IPC realizes blood stains may contain hepatitis and goes on a crusade to scour all biohazards from the station? Good times, that's what. Also I read the spoiler. Anyone putting that much effort into the attempt deserves a shot.

No. If people do not know how to do their jobs they should find someone who does and ask them to teach them.

I have further doubts about this rule. It exists on almost all servers but exists for a much more practical reason; traitors or nuke operatives will have objectives to steal certain items, and the rule exists to keep those items from being removed from play so that the antagonists aren't blocked. However, we do not have such game modes here, with a sole exception of the nuke disk. Since admins can stick a player in cryo at an F1 request, what prevents them from spawning a new copy of the blueprints or CE's stamp with an F1 request? Creating them for an antagonist would be metagaming and ruin the challenge of the round, but we don't face that here. It seems to me that this rule is more of a holdover than relevant to our play, and a seven day temp ban from a given position should be the maximum sentence for a rule now reduced to a courtesy to others.

This leaves the question; are you willing to permaban over this kind of rule. Because if you are not, I would like to know what the limit is in punishment. In addition to a family to interrupt play my internet dies in wind, rain, bright sunlight and butterflies alighting on my phone lines. Will that compound over years to end my whitelist?

I had enough time to do it because you put a gun to my head, Sonic, and I thought running back in to correct it would settle the matter. Then you pulled the trigger anyway as a deliberate insult. That's what "slap in the face" means, by the way. A deliberate insult. You could plainly see I made a good faith effort not to cryo with important items but insisted on driving your point home with a deliberate insult. You could plainly see I am responding to the warning I'd gotten by making sure I didn't idle out indefinitely, or enter cryo with important things, but that last 5%, that littlest margin of error, is what you are going to deliberately insult me over. The rule is, "Please use cryogenic sleep whenever possible: it’ll free up the job slot for others. And please remember to store your gear in your office/work area before going to cryogenic sleep." It is a rather softly written rule to use the cryo sleep to open up the job slot as an after thought is another softly written clause. Is this really something worth killing for? Because I have to fight over it. I've got a wife and three kids who will randomly demand my full attention at any point in the day, and if every little incident piles up like this, and every past incident stays on my record, and every future incident gets compounded by the past, I cannot remain on this server. You've got to decide what you're willing to permaban over, and a courtesy-based rule doesn't seem like where you should draw that line.

You know, what really gets me is that I specifically went through my inventory for anything that might be role-sensitive in an honest effort to comply with the rule, the evidence that I did so is right there on the table, and I still got a three day ban.

BYOND Key: Nikov Staff BYOND Key: SonicGotNuked Game ID:bQW-aAv2, EXTENDED Reason for complaint: This really isn't a complaint against Sonic. My ability to play a whitelisted command role and my specific character should not be compromised by wanting to go to sleep after two 'continue the round' votes in Extended and leaving an ID-locked non-weapon on the table where it is protected from theft by SSD looting rules and able to be easily found by any replacement CE. I feel pretty much trapped in a cycle of notes and warnings that never put the 'issue' in context. The issue here is that I'm job-banned from CE et all for three days after a round in which I showed up (nobody else wanted the job!), took a report from the staff, arranged a test to be performed with the engine, got told by someone they'd sooner cryo than stick around for it (they did, how's that for properly using cryo), responded to a biohazard, cleared it without loss of life, coordinated the repair effort, kept Command up to speed and generally did my job. Then a crew transfer failed, the Captain himself fucked off to cryo, and after another crew transfer failed, I fucked off to cryo. I was entirely within my rights save that I put the RIG module on the table instead of down two Z levels and across the length of the station, which at 2 AM, I didn't feel was warranted since the suit will not work without the proper ID and was being put down in the cryo area anyway, in a dead-hours round with dying pop and nothing resembling a threat. It wasn't a gun or an ID card or the 'nuke disk' as Sonic compared it to. Allegations that I go SSD in my office stem from long, uneventful rounds leaving me with little to do as a chief engineer except sit in my office, on-call, and await an event that requires my attention. That means I'm responding to things a little delayed, perhaps, but its clear where I can be found. Contrast this with wandering around valid-hunting, building crap in maintenance or pestering the opposite sex. For that matter, contrast this with not performing the first hour of a shift's work, or leaving the slot empty. Anyone else would be sitting at the desk awaiting a problem at best, or running off building a bar in maintenance at worst. It seems entirely meaningless to go beyond "hey, you need to stash that in your office as per the rules", because as I think I'm making clear, I do the job I'm whitelisted for and I take both it and the server seriously. I am not the random shitter I reported earlier in the round walking around with a welding tank and a grey jumpsuit. In theory, a positive conversation goes further with the earnest but misguided and the hammer should only go down on the malicious. But that policy isn't being pursued in what amounts to broken-windows policing of multi-year veterans of the server, driving talent and experience away by a thousand cuts of trial admins and their notations. Experiences like this do not make me want to improve. They genuinely make me want to not play for a few months, again, and again, and again. Given how many whitelists we've handed out, yet how many rounds I've seen where I'm the only head of staff, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a recurring theme for many. I guess if you don't write complaints about the administration they won't change their style. Evidence/logs/etc: Additional remarks: That bag is a previous engineer's. It contained engineering's hoist kit, without which injured people can't be recovered from EVA. Just saying.

-1. I don't think you answered the questions regarding the meaning of roleplaying and the OOC obligations of a head of staff to my satisfaction.