Player complaint - Veradox

[cloud]

BYOND Key: cloud_motion

Game ID: bUL-dp0I

Player Byond Key: Veradox

Staff involved: Nursiekitty

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? Yes, they deemed it acceptable.

Approximate Date/Time: Round went on from midnight until about 1:45am GMT, 09 June

Reason for complaint:

So the whole round was a bit of a mess, but I was still having fun doing RP's, yadi-yada.

At some point, me and Khalid follow Nathan Corvo down to the AI core where Harmony (Tailson's AI) is obviously located, to talk to her and see what was going off. There was an emitter there for some reason, I'm guessing to try and shoot her. But it was unsecured and would've been pretty difficult to get setup in an area surrounded by borgs, a ninja, and a malf AI.

So whilst we're down there, we walk into the core and the lasers start shooting at us, me and Khalid nope straight out of there and back into the lift. The doors are already bolted so there's nowhere we can go. Khalid has a ladder but can't really set it up considering some security borg could flash us easily enough. So whilst I'm partway through talking to Cadmus and trying to get in touch with Harmony about why Nathan just died, Cadmus just comes up to me and starts battering me with a wrench.

That's all there was to it.

Just... battered me with a wrench. https://puu.sh/ABIaB/21360f8b65.png

So I was talking and doing emotes and the usual stuff about cowering in a corner, begging him to stop etc. when he just continues. There's no real way we could've escaped. So next we were put through the borging machine, which could've been really fun, assuming I was forced in there through, say... I don't know, the security borg with handcuffs and allowed to RP with Harmony through some existential chats before being shoved into the borginator 12000.

Instead I was just beaten into crit, whilst typing and not actually attacking or doing much of anything beyond trying to get an emote out. All the while Veradox is just left clicking me.

Yeah, you can probably argue what was I doing down there in the first place? I knew I was probably going to die, but my character likes and trusts Harmony so I took her down there anyway. I was expecting to be killed but not in the way Veradox did it. The whole situation felt pretty similar to flashrev on low-rp servers.

So I ahelped Nursie who summed it up as being acceptable because: "the round has escalated to such a point where, icly and oocly, it would make sense for even more people to start dropping off." Personally, I think that was a pretty poor response and isn't really in the spirit of the server. I'm not too fussed about how Nursie handled it because the round was understandably a clusterfuck from an admin perspective, so I sort of understand their response. But at the same time, it just felt like the easy route to take, and to me it translates to: 'The station is code red and busy so RP can be excluded'. Maybe I'm being a bit myopic, but I just don't think that's what the server's about. Hence why I'm making this complaint.

Another little side-note is how Veradox plays their cyborg. It called the ai a 'greasy-cum rag', and in other rounds, it always seems to have a bit of an off personality, unbefitting of a cyborg. They walk around calling people autistic, retards and swear like a sailor. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but why would NanoTrasen employ a cyborg that walks around telling its crew they're 'autistic fucking retards'?

I want to reiterate that I'm not at all bothered about being turned into a borgie; they're fun. It was the manner in which he did it. It was honestly just crap RP from their player and not something I'd expect from Aurora.

[AmoryBlaine]

Yeah, their Cyborg swears a lot, they don't seem to really be a station bound. EDIT: Maybe there's a misunderstanding as to what a stationbound is- concerning personality. I don't know. But I really think they could rework the character.

[veradox]

debriefed with nursie what my options were and what the situation was like from my perspective, did it again, and i'll do it again one more time.

i don't know where to slip this in but it only became apparent that the ninja had supposedly struck a deal with the AI to harass the crew in some undisclosed way up until a final encounter post-incident. we're all in the dark on a majority of information because comms are dark and we're locked downstairs trying to borg people under the AI's orders.

you came down with the captain after we tried to shove past you. captain runs in with you both, gets shot to heck for the second time(?). you run back, the elevator won't rise, and your partner brings out a portable ladder while i'm still backing the rear having wanted to escape but being denied because of interference with the doorways. you bring an emitter, cited earlier by your companion that went down with you that "big zapper" is to be implied as an emitter at the core. well, strike one. strike two comes when corvo rushes the AI upload. strike three comes when you both try to escape.

well that can't work.

in our situation we're starting off with trying to do a conversion gimmick under the guidance of the AI, and if the crew would escape and snitch physically to the rest of the security team then our guise of operating under comms failure is no-go anymore. so, fearing the repercussions of a counterstrike and watching your partner climb up the ladder to bring it down and move it for better access of the next floor, you're both pulled off a ladder and struck in the leg to be crippled. all the while, you're being dragged back to the AI core where you continue to run away. it would've honestly objectively played out better if every borged person didn't take six minutes to orient or if solid backup came to the sound of bashed bones; but thats how it went down.

well, sucks. i've got to keep subduing you. hell, wrench was my least damaging weapon. dealt with the engineering partner the same way. there's no room for negotiation when escape is a foot's reach away. saying 'stop' and 'come on man' while being beaten isn't a safeguard. you might've expected that because you were being treated in a friendly manner at roundstart that it would imply a connection of empathy, but in a situation that ran the risk of making or breaking the continued shenanigans of the AI's "borg everyone" plan, there's no room for dancing around the point while the captain is being lasered in the adjacent room. frankly i feel bad for your case because upon reaching to the main level finally a brain damaged and blind ninja told us they eliminated all of security. an untrue statement i would find in the end, but he took out everyone worth mentioning for the most part. if the threat wasn't as severe, i've been more than lenient to even BS vampires that just dissipate away every few seconds and apologize for your unfortunate circumstance, but not for the actions which at the time were deemed critical. if there was a hardline way to subdue both of you with minimal risk it'd be done.

next; the AI had been harassing the character for binding and remodules which was denounced as power tripping and negligent to the well-being of the crew that would benefit more from sticking to it's specialized role. i've gone many extra steps to attempting to enunciate the point of borderline aversion to the institution of AIs due to a lack of more organic ingenuity that is suggested to and has in experience proven more tactful. once hacked, aggression from the culmination of irritation at the flooding of communications channels with ranting of 'no limbs!!!'

from the AI during a dangerous situation coupled with that harassment resulted in four or five lines of shots at the character of the AI and how they were inherently designed as flawed. don't think greasy cumrag was part of it, sounds a little generic for my taste but maybe? didn't seem like they took offense regardless of what was said as was likely proper of their character, and immediately afterwards the unit diverted attention to distracting, slowing and stalling the crew and serving the new master.

there's a legitimate and acknowledged sentiment that the character personality is actively and rounded by aggression, but unfortunately word of mouth and observations out of game don't amount to much. i don't know a scenario in the few days i've burned time here waiting for my class registration where someone is an "autistic fucking retard" or "autistic" in general during a standard round but i'm sure it's the easiest way to coalesce your sentiments albeit how sensationalized that pairing of words is and incorrect. you'll see off tempo behavior during rogue rounds which may help shape your viewpoint because 1. im not interacting with something that im not interacting with in the future as individual speech may be rated as worthwhile based on orders, potential artificial camaraderie, the risk presented to the future well-being of the chassis and queued tasks 2. those interactions are appropriated with banter or with duties executed with an attempt to serve above and beyond servitude either through actions or supplementary words of advice when available for a particular situation that can properly be evaluated.

it's not a rewarding feeling on the mind when fifty percent of interactions are positive and the other fifty are negative due to unfortunate circumstance regarding character interaction for something working on an efficiency prioritized task oriented basis rather than for pinky swears in medbay all the time. some haste and disregard is a product of haste.

from that I think because of this its really easy to get misguided when interaction can be limited or the point of view is not fully encapsulated, so i respect your present position but deem it unfounded otherwise.

hopefully the provided information soothes you. spent forty or so minutes trying to address every point or avenue of discussion. i've been playing with hydroponics and beverages lately and already discussed it so i'm dismissing that matter personally. the weekend will be busy with community service for college rep and stepping out of town so if this doesn't suffice then hopefully patience can be granted but i'm about to run on four hours of sleep tonight. shoutout to seniorscore for noticing me of this. might be a little messy but i'll get to it when there's time.

submitted 2:55am here for a good estimate of time schedule to expect a response

[Garnascus]

Staff involved: Nursiekitty

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? Yes, they deemed it acceptable.

 

Hello

If an administrator deemed the issue presented in your post as acceptable then you will need to make a staff complaint. Player complaints cannot be used to overturn a staff members decision.

[ben10083]

Hey, I played with Cadmus a few times, and I have to agree with the plaintiff here, cyborgs don't really say things like 'retard' or 'autistic' or stuff like 'sup', sounding like someone I would meet at the bar.

Overall I understand that some people are negative to borgs, but you can't just as a cyborg just insult them, as a reference, when someone is being a ass to my cyborg I just ignore it, since cyborgs don't care how you feel about them.

Regarding the AI thing, I agree 100% with cadmus's actions, if even one of you guys escaped they would be fucked, as a emitter was already there (powergaming? Why was that even there?) and they would escape likely the moment he let up, if the plaintiff wouldn't the engineer certainly would.

[Faris]

Input from [mention]CakeIsOssim[/mention] and [mention]kyres1[/mention] I feel is relevant here.

[Coalf]

Myself and [mention]Tailson[/mention] will be managing this complaint.

The logs aren't perfectly clear, [mention]veradox[/mention] at what point in the round did your character Cadmus turn malf?

[cloud]

Hello

If an administrator deemed the issue presented in your post as acceptable then you will need to make a staff complaint. Player complaints cannot be used to overturn a staff members decision.

 

Hey'o. I asked Nursie if they were cool with me making this and they said go ahead, but after the round.

 

debriefed with nursie what my options were and what the situation was like from my perspective, did it again, and i'll do it again one more time.

i don't know where to slip this in but it only became apparent that the ninja had supposedly struck a deal with the AI to harass the crew in some undisclosed way up until a final encounter post-incident. we're all in the dark on a majority of information because comms are dark and we're locked downstairs trying to borg people under the AI's orders.

you came down with the captain after we tried to shove past you. captain runs in with you both, gets shot to heck for the second time(?). you run back, the elevator won't rise, and your partner brings out a portable ladder while i'm still backing the rear having wanted to escape but being denied because of interference with the doorways. you bring an emitter, cited earlier by your companion that went down with you that "big zapper" is to be implied as an emitter at the core. well, strike one. strike two comes when corvo rushes the AI upload. strike three comes when you both try to escape.

well that can't work.

 

True, I actually had no idea why the emitter was there, which I brought up in my original post. It isn't something that we would've had any chance to set up with a ninja, cyborgs and a broke Harmony hanging around though, but I do get where you're coming from with this.

 

in our situation we're starting off with trying to do a conversion gimmick under the guidance of the AI, and if the crew would escape and snitch physically to the rest of the security team then our guise of operating under comms failure is no-go anymore. so, fearing the repercussions of a counterstrike and watching your partner climb up the ladder to bring it down and move it for better access of the next floor, you're both pulled off a ladder and struck in the leg to be crippled. all the while, you're being dragged back to the AI core where you continue to run away. it would've honestly objectively played out better if every borged person didn't take six minutes to orient or if solid backup came to the sound of bashed bones; but thats how it went down.

well, sucks. i've got to keep subduing you. hell, wrench was my least damaging weapon. dealt with the engineering partner the same way. there's no room for negotiation when escape is a foot's reach away. saying 'stop' and 'come on man' while being beaten isn't a safeguard. you might've expected that because you were being treated in a friendly manner at roundstart that it would imply a connection of empathy, but in a situation that ran the risk of making or breaking the continued shenanigans of the AI's "borg everyone" plan, there's no room for dancing around the point while the captain is being lasered in the adjacent room. frankly i feel bad for your case because upon reaching to the main level finally a brain damaged and blind ninja told us they eliminated all of security. an untrue statement i would find in the end, but he took out everyone worth mentioning for the most part. if the threat wasn't as severe, i've been more than lenient to even BS vampires that just dissipate away every few seconds and apologize for your unfortunate circumstance, but not for the actions which at the time were deemed critical. if there was a hardline way to subdue both of you with minimal risk it'd be done.

 

 

You did drag me back to the AI core with active lasers twice, yeah (again with no conversation), so both times I pulled back at a snails pace for obvious reasons; I couldn't outrun you after being left-clicked in the legs so many times at that point. I do kind of get where you're coming from, but at the same time when I'm sat there clearly attempting to give a bit of roleplay instead of flashing you and smacking you in with a welder, I would've appreciated a bit of reciprocation, if that makes sense? I think I talked to Cadmus for about three minutes during that round, and that was when I whaltzed into the engine room before even knowing it was there, so it wasn't so much the empathy thing. Perhaps I was being a bit naive from an OOC perspective, assuming that you would stop when I was clearly making no attempts to attack back.

It's just that, that's the one thing that really bothered me here. Being subdued in the core, surrounded by cyborgs and inactive lasers, and that the potential for a nice bit of RP with a broken AI that is about to turn me into a cyborg was completely lost, since you just kept left-clicking me. Even after I was quite clearly unable to move away any more. You kept on smacking me once I was well and truly into the core (after Harmony had turned the lasers off). That's what my issue is. Your other points about not wanting us to escape etc. are as valid as they can be I guess, but I was so far into crit that I was about one or two hits away from being dead. Don't wrenches only do about 5 brute or something? I was only shot with a laser once, so that's a lot of extra, IMO, unnecessary clicks.

 

next; the AI had been harassing the character for binding and remodules which was denounced as power tripping and negligent to the well-being of the crew that would benefit more from sticking to it's specialized role. i've gone many extra steps to attempting to enunciate the point of borderline aversion to the institution of AIs due to a lack of more organic ingenuity that is suggested to and has in experience proven more tactful. once hacked, aggression from the culmination of irritation at the flooding of communications channels with ranting of 'no limbs!!!'

from the AI during a dangerous situation coupled with that harassment resulted in four or five lines of shots at the character of the AI and how they were inherently designed as flawed. don't think greasy cumrag was part of it, sounds a little generic for my taste but maybe? didn't seem like they took offense regardless of what was said as was likely proper of their character, and immediately afterwards the unit diverted attention to distracting, slowing and stalling the crew and serving the new master.

It's not so much about offense, I don't think. I reckon you'd have to be pretty immature to be upset at something like that. It's more so the idea that a NanoTrasen-sanctioned cyborg is slinging those words around. Why would anyone buy a cyborg that talks like that?

 

there's a legitimate and acknowledged sentiment that the character personality is actively and rounded by aggression, but unfortunately word of mouth and observations out of game don't amount to much. i don't know a scenario in the few days i've burned time here waiting for my class registration where someone is an "autistic fucking retard" or "autistic" in general during a standard round but i'm sure it's the easiest way to coalesce your sentiments albeit how sensationalized that pairing of words is and incorrect. you'll see off tempo behavior during rogue rounds which may help shape your viewpoint because 1. im not interacting with something that im not interacting with in the future as individual speech may be rated as worthwhile based on orders, potential artificial camaraderie, the risk presented to the future well-being of the chassis and queued tasks 2. those interactions are appropriated with banter or with duties executed with an attempt to serve above and beyond servitude either through actions or supplementary words of advice when available for a particular situation that can properly be evaluated.

it's not a rewarding feeling on the mind when fifty percent of interactions are positive and the other fifty are negative due to unfortunate circumstance regarding character interaction for something working on an efficiency prioritized task oriented basis rather than for pinky swears in medbay all the time. some haste and disregard is a product of haste.

from that I think because of this its really easy to get misguided when interaction can be limited or the point of view is not fully encapsulated, so i respect your present position but deem it unfounded otherwise.

 

I get where you're going with this, but I've seen this behavior multiple times when you've not been rogue and when observing. I wasn't going to bring it up until a few other people mentioned it throughout various rounds as well, so it seems I'm not alone in the sentiment.

 

hopefully the provided information soothes you. spent forty or so minutes trying to address every point or avenue of discussion. i've been playing with hydroponics and beverages lately and already discussed it so i'm dismissing that matter personally. the weekend will be busy with community service for college rep and stepping out of town so if this doesn't suffice then hopefully patience can be granted but i'm about to run on four hours of sleep tonight. shoutout to seniorscore for noticing me of this. might be a little messy but i'll get to it when there's time.

submitted 2:55am here for a good estimate of time schedule to expect a response

 

I appreciate the reply, and thank you for trying to address my points. Hopefully you can see where I'm coming from in this situation and why I think what you did was a bit unnecessary and ruined what could've been a fun, RP-filled crescendo?

[veradox]

hey there im still out of town and on mobile but i'm doing a little bit of shenanigans out of town still for whom i intend to wed. bear with me. i dont know how to @ and may miss a few points but the community involved deserve their answers.

for abosh i think that asked "oh god, im being hacked" is about the time for malf integration where beforehand i was scanning both crew monitors and the power net to keep the ninja in check and security to be informed.

to address the reporter, cloud, yes in objective hindsight we can all see the weight of my superiority in the situation as a rogue unit in his home chambers but with our conversions slow to adapt and therefore slow to guarantee support, laser sfx behind me, and two personnel about to escape the blood boil to preserve the integrity of the ai's plot in the face of danger saw through nonviolent mediation and if i could do it any other way when it happened with some more time to type and soothe i likely would have.

it is the intended roleplay to be abrasive in dealing with unnecessary encounters and its synthetic counterparts and more forgiving, teacherly and open to banter with more industrious encounters. interactions rarely include negative connotations and usually are met in future and present meetings with cooperation and generally good standing. it is liable to be a hit and miss process but usually if ever is not met with character backlash. it is mostly spontaneous observer or third party critique.

but yes to best address the complaint my method of antagging through this character is usually verbal and prone to lies and misdirection rather than direct violence. the first and real instance of violence was a year or two ago that ended in murdering eight people in a room and believe me it wasnt very roleplay conducive and also coordinated by a malf ai. had it been less perceived as way too risky and the heat of the moment didnt warp decision making it could have been much more easily de-escalated. theres more detail im sure that can be gone into but as of right now mobile is improper for real discussion.

submitted 5:40pm here

[Tailson]

Hi everyone, thanks for being patient! It's been difficult to sync ourselves up and find a moment to properly discuss it.

So in regards to the actual content of the complaint made by [mention]cloud[/mention] and the situation everyone found themselves in: it is unfortunate that things went as violently as they did but we understand that things were very hectic and at this point in the round things had escalated to the point where quick and effective disposal of a fleeing crew member was a fair response to the situation.

However, [mention]Coalf[/mention] and I have discussed [mention]veradox[/mention]'s behaviour as CADMUS even before being hacked with synthetic lore deputy [mention]kyres1[/mention]. After reviewing your character's behaviour and mannerisms from before the hack and in other rounds besides this one we have found that your borg play is simply unacceptable. Station-bound units are literally robots, and should behave that way, not as a mouthpiece for venting very loud and abrasive opinions and behaving generally like a horrible human. If you wish to play a character like this, you will be better suited creating an organic character. CADMUS as a robot does not behave at all like a robot should.

After reviewing your notes and warnings - some of which date back to 2016 and rounds in which your character Cadmus was present - we have discovered that the issue wasn't in the incident itself but in your character.

You have repeatedly failed to adhere to how robots and synthetics are generally portrayed with a "final warning" dating back to 2016. We have kept in mind the fact that you took an almost 2 year break from the game, returned and continued exactly the same behaviour as before instead of attempting to fix anything.

Every issue that has been laid against your account was about either breaking laws, damaging the integrity of the game atmosphere or generally making the round a poor experience for those around you. In light of this, we have decided to ban you from playing synthetic characters.

We consider this issue resolved. Usually I would leave something like this up for 24 hours, but since [mention]veradox[/mention] seems to be away from the internet a lot this week I'll give it 72 instead.

[Coalf]

Locking and archiving.