Reviving Suggestion: Merge Virology And Pharmacist into a New Title: Bio-Physician.

[Soultheif96]

Hello, it has been brought up to me recently about the qualifications of a chemist/pharmacist, along with an old suggestion post, regarding of easing the two jobs of chemistry and virology, creating a Bio-Physician.

Apply link to old suggestion post and also giving credit to Jackboot for the concept: 

 However, given some looking through and analyzing, I will be cutting out the remapping and and suggestion to move chemist to R&D as it is a long time discussed topic irrelevant to this matter.

BEGIN QUOTE:

"1) Virology is crippled by over-specialization and is not fun to play.

2) The two roles in the [chemistry laboratory] of Pharmacist and Chemist are so similar that making them distinct from a functional perspective would have to be very anal and lame and not fun.

So I had the thought that combining the chemist and virologist into the new Bio-Physician, while leaving the pharmacist alone, would solve both of these issues. This would give chemistry two jobs: Pharmacist and Bio-Physician.

Justification:

(lore) Over 400 years of bacteria becoming anti-biotic resistant, and diseases evolving at a rapid pace in general, pharmacists and virologists worked in tandem more and more over the years and became so intertwined that they were eventually merged into a new, advanced curriculum. Bio-Physician, merging Biochemistry and Physician.

(gameplay) Virologists' abilities to engineer new viruses is circumstantial and a dead end. Even if they create killer viruses or beneficial viruses, they can't release them. The only functional and consistent duties of a virologist is to cure outbreaks. These outbreaks are rare. We are struck with a plague of understaffed virologists that no one misses until we need them. Having what is functionally a chemist who moonlights as a virologist gives players something to do at all times.

The Role Itself

Bio-Physician. Must be 30 years old.

M.D. and/or Ph.D. +2 years of residency and/or 4 years of work in related R&D [and/or Medical related degree].

They can do chemistry (hello) and general MD-lite duties similar to an Emergency Physician, [Will not be doing surgery at all, what so ever]. That means they can stabilize people, use sleepers, use cryogenic cells, and clone [This is debatable but one can suggest that if they under biochemistry, they should at least know how to clone]. They really shouldn't and they probably won't have time to, but the option is there if you need all hands on deck for mass casualties.

The pharmacist would remain the same. They will not have to worry about all this virology business and are happy just making Alkysine, thanks.

I'll source the links below, but my brief research into the topic showed that there are already correlations between pharmacists and virology, and that some studies are suggesting making the two roles work closer together even now in [2019]. Pharmacists are already meant to immunize people against infection, so expanding this to handle the research and curing of viruses is a natural end-state. Being a sci-fi setting we have a blank check to take this concept and run with it full steam."

END QUOTE:

The purpose of this role is to fulfill the occasional void of a virologist in times of when a virus is going around and can preform medical duties if required in a medical situation. I very often see chemists and virologists avoid helping out the medical team because job limitations restrict them even though they can act as a medical intern. Should there ever be a virus, this role can fulfill it. Additionally, if there is a medical doctor, this role should let the doctor do their job but if asked, it will preform as a MD-lite. 

Lastly, for wiki administrator's use, apply guides of chemistry, virology, and medicine for quick access and detailing the specifics of what this job can do so there is no overlap to prevent other player's play.  

EDIT: Adding to the suggestion, a 5-day whitelist should be added to prevent in-experienced players from entering this position like the AI has. Given the qualities of the position, it is abusable. 

[VTCobaltblood]

I don't see any reason for the virus event to actually stay, as it is profoundly unfun for anyone but the virologist or whoever cures your virus. It kicks you out of the round for a good 30 minutes on an arbitrary, RNG basis, as opposed to being a result of your or the others' actions or mistakes like normal medical injuries. This is horrible game design - you provide fun for one person at the expense of others (a lot of others, actually!), and I honestly couldn't care less for whatever lore justification it may have.

An idea to make viruses germs-based was proposed, but I don't see any merit to it besides salvaging virology, which I can't fathom a really good reason for. Remove it already.

Edited February 21, 2019 by VTCobaltblood

[GreenBoi]

Same boat as cobalt. Sure, you can argue that within 400 years, viral strains will get super resistant, but mind you we already have a potential solution to this IRL right (kurzgesagt made a video about this, called the Bacteriophage). And with how we've been in contact with multiple aliens for more than a decade, it's safe to assume people have already made vaccines and cures for the early viruses you could get from touching a Skrell or Unathi who came from their native planets.

But, there's no reason for a virus to suddenly start on a space station. People keep saying "Crew is so crowded" but then you look at the map and realize you could fit 100 people and still not need to start filling the hallways. The station is too big to argue it being too "crowded" and as I mentioned before, any bacteria gotten from other species at First Contact was probably dealt with as soon as they were met.

 

From an OOC perspective, it also makes even less sense. Virology literally cannot be used unless you're an antagonist or there's a virus. Sure, you can make a beneficial telepathy virus that also generates Hyperzine, but it's pretty pointless and usually gets shut down by Command.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The combination of the underused virology job with chemist allows viruses to be efficiently handled as is. This is not about the existence of viruses as a mechanic. Please make a seperate thread.

Hmmmmm.... i think i agree with the op.... good job change

[Resilynn]

I still think biophysician is a stupid title and think it should be biochemist, but I also still approve whole heartedly of the merge. 

[makkenhoff]

I can understand not liking virology, but some people do find it fun, might consider that the gameplay itself needs reworked, to make it competitive; some of the reworks I've seen has virus that helps the crew, sort of a custom tailored disease that provides benefits as well as disadvantages, much like genetics. Baystation got rid of genetics way back when, with similar justification, and it didn't last.  Might be that virology should be removed, but another rival system should be ready to be inserted into it.

*edit*

I should note, this was in reply to some other stated comments that seemed to imply removal of virology.

Edited February 26, 2019 by makkenhoff
Edit for clarity.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Just now, makkenhoff said:

I can understand not liking virology, but some people do find it fun, might consider that the gameplay itself needs reworked, to make it competitive; some of the reworks I've seen has virus that helps the crew, sort of a custom tailored disease that provides benefits as well as disadvantages, much like genetics. Baystation got rid of genetics way back when, with similar justification, and it didn't last.  Might be that virology should be removed, but another rival system should be ready to be inserted into it.

This does not remove virology as a job. It changes it to give virologists a lot to do when they are not curing viruses, while still being consistent and making sense.

[Arrow768]

Implemented here:
https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/6099

 

[Conspiir]

I came in here wondering if anyone thought the term "Bio-physician" didn't make intrinsic sense and found yes, Resi and I are in the same boat.

 

Biophysician literally means "Life Doctor" and doesn't actually explain what they do. Every medical doctor is a biophysician. Like calling someone a "biologist", you learn absolutely nothing about what they do (someone that works with plants is as much a biologist as someone that works with bacteria or someone that works with insects) If you want to nail it down, go with Biochemist or Virochemist (I like that one) or similar.

[Itanimulli]

What happens to the psychologist subtitle.

[JMJ_99]

I'm only a first year bio medicine student so I'm bound to get something wrong here. The title is stupid and the justification  is stupid. Biochemistry and Biomedicine is the basis for Medical practice, they are More theory heavy then MD and research is the primary focus, in a hospital setting they are mostly doing diagnostic work in a pathology laboratory . An MD is taught less theory and more about what to do to help a patient. In America atleast, Doctors are becoming more involved in research but keeping up with the literature is what they mostly focus on. A virologist(The title in game) Implies a physician specialized in Virology, they would be focused on making vaccines and cures. Making viruses should violate the doctors oath so it's a pointless task anyway. A pharmacist in America has a Doctorate of  Pharmacy(PharmD) already making them "doctors". The title "Bio-physician"  is contradictory and redundant as has already been pointed out, Bio-chemist(non MD), pathologist(MD and usually a PHD), Biomedical scientist(Non-MD) I'm not against making the virology and chemistry lab merged but any of these titles would of these would have both virology and chemistry capabilities and actually make sense.

Edited February 27, 2019 by JMJ_99

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Bio-Physician portrays concisely that the role remains a physician, with the elaborated responsibilities of both the virologist and the physician. Bio-Chemist does not seem to concisely portray what the job is in an immediate, visceral way. I guess I could sway, but it would be less of a user-friendly change.

 

[JMJ_99]

18 minutes ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

Bio-Physician portrays concisely that the role remains a physician, with the elaborated responsibilities of both the virologist and the physician. Bio-Chemist does not seem to concisely portray what the job is in an immediate, visceral way. I guess I could sway, but it would be less of a user-friendly change. 

  

Bio-chemist describes exactly what it means, a person that studies the Chemical processes that happen in the body. Bio-physician portrays nothing but it is a doctor that has something to do with biological processes

Edited February 27, 2019 by JMJ_99

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

2 hours ago, JMJ_99 said:

I'm only a first year bio medicine student

I just want to point out that if you replace 'bio med' student with literally any field, this is the most common phrase that I ever see preceding a longform criticism of something about auroralore. You undergrads are super invested and I am into it

Just now, JMJ_99 said:

Bio-chemist describes exactly what it means, a person that is studies the Chemical processes that happen in the body. Bio-physician portrays nothing but it is a doctor that has something to do with biological processes

hmmmm.... ok fair enough.... im fine with it...... @Arrow768 Please tweak the title to Bio-Chemist, when possible, if you agree with the name convention being a better one.

[Arrow768]

Alright, so there are a few options for the cloths:

• Give the Bio-Chemist and Pharmacist the gear from the Virologist
• Give the Bio-Chemist and Pharmacist the gear from the Chemist
• Give the Bio-Chemist the gear from the virologist and the Pharmacist the gear from the Chemist
• Get a new sprite set that is used by both the Bio-Chemist and the Virologist

Poll is edited into the main post

[Arrow768]

Also, the next question is what to do with the virology / chemistry lab.

I also see a few options for that:

• Remove the virology lab from the sublevel, add a scaled down version of it to chemistry and use the loonie-den as containment for the virology-patients if we have them
• Move chemistry to the sublevel and combine it with the virology lab

If you have another idea, let me know.

[Conspiir]

Let it be known, there is in fact no hyphen in Biochemistry. Bio- is a prefix and we consider words that use prefixes to be one word all its own.

 

The correct title is just "Biochemist".

[ferner]

I'm all for a merger of these jobs, and I had an idea on how to fit in the virology equipment upstairs, closer to the chemistry lab. (This is a rough draft, a lot of details are missing and not really decided on layoutl.)

 

Where instead of cramming it into main level medbay, you use some of the potential verticality of the map and put it above. And from the workarea the biochemist can even see if someone is waiting at their desk down below. I also put in a single isolation cell if it's needed, For larger outbreaks you'd use the sublevel. The maintenance tunnel on the right goes right over to the psych ward's maintenance tunnel.

This only one of the possible soloutions, if you'd like other ideas, do let me know.

Edited February 28, 2019 by ferner

[PoZe]

7 hours ago, ferner said:

I'm all for a merger of these jobs, and I had an idea on how to fit in the virology equipment upstairs, closer to the chemistry lab. (This is a rough draft, a lot of details are missing and not really decided on layoutl.)

 

Where instead of cramming it into main level medbay, you use some of the potential verticality of the map and put it above. And from the workarea the biochemist can even see if someone is waiting at their desk down below. I also put in a single isolation cell if it's needed, For larger outbreaks you'd use the sublevel. The maintenance tunnel on the right goes right over to the psych ward's maintenance tunnel.

This only one of the possible soloutions, if you'd like other ideas, do let me know.

If you have map ready, post PR:)

[ferner]

If you want me to, I could. But it'd need some rounds of polish. Also what access would all this be locked to, chemistry?

I'll continue working on it.

Edited March 1, 2019 by ferner

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

12 hours ago, ferner said:

I'm all for a merger of these jobs, and I had an idea on how to fit in the virology equipment upstairs, closer to the chemistry lab. (This is a rough draft, a lot of details are missing and not really decided on layoutl.)

 

Where instead of cramming it into main level medbay, you use some of the potential verticality of the map and put it above. And from the workarea the biochemist can even see if someone is waiting at their desk down below. I also put in a single isolation cell if it's needed, For larger outbreaks you'd use the sublevel. The maintenance tunnel on the right goes right over to the psych ward's maintenance tunnel.

This only one of the possible soloutions, if you'd like other ideas, do let me know.

Wow that looks great! I told PoZe to stay in his lane cuz a new boss is in town.

Arrow132 has a poll running on the suggestion itself about your question regarding gear and access. It may be prudent to get into contact with them to get better synergy on your work.

I would suggest:
Shutters for the exam room windows with the button in the viro lab itself.
The exam room itself is problematic; the patients being in the sublevel means the lab is safe even if there is a riot and they start breaking out of quarantine. It may be best to turn it into a freezer to keep virus samples and antidotes and other materials. Rather than all of this just sitting in an unlocked freezer in the middle of the lab.

[KingOfThePing]

No idea why there are two threads now, I think I commented in the wrong one. First of all, utilizing the construction level, the absolute madlad. Second, this looks good. Way better what was proposed in the other thread. I am impressed how well this even looks, with basically a glass front overlooking the reception. Super cool.

I have a question, though. Will it still be able to lock down virology seperately again, as it is now, using blast doors?

The lab looks considerably smaller now. How many people are intended to work in there? It might look a bit too small for two people already (if you were going for one anyway it's obviously fine).

Who has access to unbolt that bolted door, leading into the construction level? Is there a button to unbolt it, if so, who can do it?

Edited March 1, 2019 by KingOfThePing

[ferner]

Thanks, I'm happy that you like it, I appreciate the feedback I'll take it all into consideration.

As for the questions, There'll be a lockdown of some capacity, I've not yet decided on how best to do this. 
The lab's size as in the picture is a bit smaller than I'd like, I'm going to work on this so atleast 2 people could work in it comfortably, as for now it's made for one.
The bolted hatch is meant icly for like once a year maintenance, so it's going to be bolted and locked to engineering/atmos access.I'll think about If I want to put in a button to unbolt it.

Thanks for the questions, as always my dms are open if there are any grievances or direct questions.

 

[ferner]

Some progress: 

There's still a lot to do as this is only a draft, and I haven't touched the sublevel yet. Still a lot of utilities to fix/add and so on. 

I removed the isolation room and replaced it with a single simian testing pen, there will still be additional ones in the sublevel.

Edited March 1, 2019 by ferner

[Arrow768]

Keep the viro lab nice and small.

It is a combo role with chemist now, so there isn't really a need for two workspaces.