Captain Sabre/Laser Thread

[Snakebittenn]

Related to https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/6329

Adds the Captain sabre, among other things. The sabre in question requires the sheath to be in your inventory, is basically just a regular sword otherwise. Other swords could be made to use sheathes later. This has been added in a sword rack to the Captain's office.

It seems the big question is if the Antique Laser should remain or not. I was forced at devpoint to make this thread.

[Garnascus]

antique laser is a cool antag objective. Let it stay. Also sabres are very cool and i support the captain wearing one. 

[Skull132]

Having both is horribly excessive. Further, an antique looking laser gun is a lot more aesthetic than a normal looking saber, specially considering our setting. A sword is literally just taking an old tradition and putting it into the game, with no aesthetic of our setting added on. (So I prefer the gun, obviously. Or at least a fucking laser saber. You yourself wanted hard light.)

[Evandorf]

I don’t think the Sabre fits well with the station. It seems like a bit of dated military tradition but NT isn’t military.

 

Also, this would be kind of a dick move to allow the Captain special permission to wear a weapon openly on green. AFAIK other swords, even if the sprite shows a scabbard like the katana, are still considered weapons by sec if worn.

[ben10083]

I do not agree with this suggestion for the following reasons:

1. Does not fit the setting of a futuristic space station

2. Sword is a military tradition for officers, the Captain is neither in the military nor is he a officer

3. Encourages Captain valid hunting worse than the gun, since the sword can amputate limbs

4. Extremely dangerous for Captain since he has to close the distance and do CQC

5. Encourages captain being always armed with a saber, making it harder for antags

6. Gun is a overall superior alternative 

-1

[Snakebittenn]

3 hours ago, Skull132 said:

Having both is horribly excessive. Further, an antique looking laser gun is a lot more aesthetic than a normal looking saber, specially considering our setting. A sword is literally just taking an old tradition and putting it into the game, with no aesthetic of our setting added on. (So I prefer the gun, obviously. Or at least a fucking laser saber. You yourself wanted hard light.)

I'd be willing to make it a less powerful energy sword. 

 

13 minutes ago, ben10083 said:

I do not agree with this suggestion for the following reasons:

1. Does not fit the setting of a futuristic space station

2. Sword is a military tradition for officers, the Captain is neither in the military nor is he a officer

3. Encourages Captain valid hunting worse than the gun, since the sword can amputate limbs

4. Extremely dangerous for Captain since he has to close the distance and do CQC

5. Encourages captain being always armed with a saber, making it harder for antags

6. Gun is a overall superior alternative 

-1

1) Sure it does. Plenty of factions in our lore I could see having them, and the Captain could come from any of them. Swords and axes and maces are the simplest weapons, they require very little maintenance, and they're highly unlikely to cause an unintended breach unlike guns. Plus, we have plenty other intentional anachronisms, like faxes. 

2) It doesn't have to be like it is in real life. Things change over time. Swords would probably see a comeback for boarding actions, on both sides, or what have you. Sidearms like a sabre are just a status symbol. Something that confers a massive amount of swagger, and has great value as a tool. As well, it's very obvious that Nanotrasen basically allows the Captain to do as he pleases so long as he pleases the corporation, like how he has 2 formal uniforms, a fox, his own private bathroom, previously a whip, an antique laser gun, etc. 

3) Sure? That doesn't mean going against a bunch of revs, a bunch of cultists, a wizard, any kind of firearm would work out well for the Captain. 

4) Okay? 

5) All of our antags have methods of dealing with this. 

6) How? 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by ParadoxSpace

[Evandorf]

9 minutes ago, ParadoxSpace said:

I'd be willing to make it a less powerful energy sword. 

 

1) Sure it does. Plenty of factions in our lore I could see having them, and the Captain could come from any of them. Swords and axes and maces are the simplest weapons, they require very little maintenance, and they're highly unlikely to cause an unintended breach unlike guns. Plus, we have plenty other intentional anachronisms, like faxes. 

2) It doesn't have to be like it is in real life. Things change over time. Swords would probably see a comeback for boarding actions, on both sides, or what have you. Sidearms like a sabre are just a status symbol. Something that confers a massive amount of swagger, and has great value as a tool. As well, it's very obvious that Nanotrasen basically allows the Captain to do as he pleases so long as he pleases the corporation, like how he has 2 formal uniforms, a fox, his own private bathroom, previously a whip, an antique laser gun, etc. 

 

 

The Captain is still bound to regulations. I still have an issue with basically giving him the ability to openly carry a weapon at all times. While the background of the Captain could account for them having a weapon they would not be allowed to bring it to work like this. 

It’s the same reason weapons aren’t allowed in custom item apps. I would check with @TishinaStalker but I’m fairly certain even Captain characters would have personal weapons denied. 

[Snakebittenn]

12 minutes ago, Evandorf said:

The Captain is still bound to regulations. I still have an issue with basically giving him the ability to openly carry a weapon at all times. While the background of the Captain could account for them having a weapon they would not be allowed to bring it to work like this. 

It’s the same reason weapons aren’t allowed in custom item apps. I would check with @TishinaStalker but I’m fairly certain even Captain characters would have personal weapons denied. 

The sheath is basically a holster in all but name. As well, it wouldn't be out of reason for the most important man on the station to be allowed an exception. Same exception as the HoS constantly wearing armor.

Edited April 19, 2019 by ParadoxSpace

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

This would be a fun little subversion if it was a dull sword and in its description quoted Foundation by Isaac Asimov by having the description say "In the world of business, direct violence like this sword is the last resort of the incompetent. Always try to find a deal."

[Evandorf]

15 minutes ago, ParadoxSpace said:

The sheath is basically a holster in all but name. As well, it wouldn't be out of reason for the most important man on the station to be allowed an exception. Same exception as the HoS constantly wearing armor.

The armor is not an exception though. Vests are allowed and encouraged for all sec officers on green. Helmets are allowed on blue and above.

The difference between the scabbard and the holster is that the holster only fits the epistol, from the captain’s current equipment. It has very little lethal potential. The sword has arguably more mileage as a lethal weapon. 

[Pratepresidenten]

2 minutes ago, Evandorf said:

The armor is not an exception though. Vests are allowed and encouraged for all sec officers on green. Helmets are allowed on blue and above.

This is false. Vests and helmets are for blue and above. You arent meant to wear vests during green.

As for the suggestion, I like it. Captains should have fancypants items to show off their rank. If the usage of it is such a huge issue (When the captain can literally just get anything from anywhere), just make the blade dull, or non-functional. The main pointer here is that its for show.

The antique can begone, time for changes.

[Snakebittenn]

8 minutes ago, Evandorf said:

The armor is not an exception though. Vests are allowed and encouraged for all sec officers on green. Helmets are allowed on blue and above.

The difference between the scabbard and the holster is that the holster only fits the epistol, from the captain’s current equipment. It has very little lethal potential. The sword has arguably more mileage as a lethal weapon. 

Yes, and the HoS is allowed a helmet on all levels, all the time, constantly. This is because he is the second most important person on the station, and has Central-granted leeway to do silly shit like wear a Nazi coat and hat.
Also, the energy pistol has the same lethal potential if not more because it's faster and has range.
Asides, it's much easier to tell when to hold back and stop when you're swording someone vs when you're shooting at them.

From a bit of a distance.


Point blank, oxygen damage was still rising.

Edited April 19, 2019 by ParadoxSpace

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

We know what happens when you get shot

[Evandorf]

9 minutes ago, Pratepresidenten said:

This is false. Vests and helmets are for blue and above. You arent meant to wear vests during green.

As for the suggestion, I like it. Captains should have fancypants items to show off their rank. If the usage of it is such a huge issue (When the captain can literally just get anything from anywhere), just make the blade dull, or non-functional. The main pointer here is that its for show.

The antique can begone, time for changes.

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Security_Officer#Alert_Levels

“You can wear the standard vest available in your security locker, but not the armor found in the armory.”

[Evandorf]

17 minutes ago, ParadoxSpace said:

Yes, and the HoS is allowed a helmet on all levels, all the time, constantly. This is because he is the second most important person on the station, and has Central-granted leeway to do silly shit like wear a Nazi coat and hat.
Also, the energy pistol has the same lethal potential if not more because it's faster and has range.
Asides, it's much easier to tell when to hold back and stop when you're swording someone vs when you're shooting at them.

From a bit of a distance.


Point blank, oxygen damage was still rising.

The HoS does not have a helmet. He has an armored hat. The issue is not IC or regulation based, as the item visually makes sense and adheres to regulations, but potentially mechanics based. If there is an issue with the HOS having a helmet that is not actually a helmet then the item or armor values should be removed.

The pistol only has five shots and not all of them will hit.

To be clear, my issue is not with the idea itself but the fact that it breaks our existing regulations and rules. The antique gun stayed in its case for the most part unless there was an emergency or an antagonist took it. If a Captain starts their round breaking open the case to carry the antique around then they’re getting a talking to. What you seem to be suggesting is replacing the antique with a lethal item that is approved to carry from the start of the round.

[ben10083]

1 hour ago, ParadoxSpace said:

 

1) Sure it does. Plenty of factions in our lore I could see having them, and the Captain could come from any of them. Swords and axes and maces are the simplest weapons, they require very little maintenance, and they're highly unlikely to cause an unintended breach unlike guns. Plus, we have plenty other intentional anachronisms, like faxes. 

2) It doesn't have to be like it is in real life. Things change over time. Swords would probably see a comeback for boarding actions, on both sides, or what have you. Sidearms like a sabre are just a status symbol. Something that confers a massive amount of swagger, and has great value as a tool. As well, it's very obvious that Nanotrasen basically allows the Captain to do as he pleases so long as he pleases the corporation, like how he has 2 formal uniforms, a fox, his own private bathroom, previously a whip, an antique laser gun, etc. 

3) Sure? That doesn't mean going against a bunch of revs, a bunch of cultists, a wizard, any kind of firearm would work out well for the Captain. 

4) Okay? 

5) All of our antags have methods of dealing with this. 

6) How? 

 

 

1) If we were that worried about breaches guns would be rare, but its the opposite. The fax is there because a alternative way to transmit paperwork was not not thought of.

2) The captain is not above regulations and policy, the pets and other benefits were given by NanoTrasen for morale of HRs.

3) Unlike the gun, swords have no stun option, its either kill or dismember, and either option cuts someone from the round.

4) Its unrealistic for a Captain to risk his life so haphazardly, even if some captains would, a sword would force all to follow suit.

5) Even though they have methods, a nonviolent option is even less likely (like kidnapping)

6) Makes sense lorewise, only grabbed in emergencies, makes sense for NT to provide, safer for Captain to use, etc.

[Snakebittenn]

3 minutes ago, Evandorf said:

The HoS does not have a helmet. He has an armored hat. The issue is not IC or regulation based, as the item visually makes sense and adheres to regulations, but potentially mechanics based. If there is an issue with the HOS having a helmet that is not actually a helmet then the item or armor values should be removed.

The pistol only has five shots and not all of them will hit.

To be clear, my issue is not with the idea itself but the fact that it breaks our existing regulations and rules. The antique gun stayed in its case for the most part unless there was an emergency or an antagonist took it. If a Captain starts their round breaking open the case to carry the antique around then they’re getting a talking to. What you seem to be suggesting is replacing the antique with a lethal item that is approved to carry from the start of the round.

There is no issue with the armored hat, it's just an exception. Same as the sabre would be, because again, first and second most important people. The laser is more of a prop, the sword is more of something you wear. And, again, the sheath is a holster.

[Snakebittenn]

1 minute ago, ben10083 said:

1) If we were that worried about breaches guns would be rare, but its the opposite. The fax is there because a alternative way to transmit paperwork was not not thought of.

2) The captain is not above regulations and policy, the pets and other benefits were given by NanoTrasen for morale of HRs.

3) Unlike the gun, swords have no stun option, its either kill or dismember, and either option cuts someone from the round.

4) Its unrealistic for a Captain to risk his life so haphazardly, even if some captains would, a sword would force all to follow suit.

5) Even though they have methods, a nonviolent option is even less likely (like kidnapping)

6) Makes sense lorewise, only grabbed in emergencies, makes sense for NT to provide, safer for Captain to use, etc.

1) We should be worried about breaches, and there's no reason to transmit actual paper in the future.
2) Please read the rest of my post. Also, that is your headcanon.
3) You don't have to use it, you still have an e-pistol. Also, I am reasonably sure the antique laser does not have a stun mode.
4) You aren't forced to even wear it.
5) No it isn't. Antags have plenty of stun options.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

What about what I said

[Evandorf]

5 minutes ago, ParadoxSpace said:

There is no issue with the armored hat, it's just an exception. Same as the sabre would be, because again, first and second most important people. The laser is more of a prop, the sword is more of something you wear. And, again, the sheath is a holster.

That’s my issue, by going from the antique to a sword you are moving from a prop to an actual weapon intended to be carried.

I personally do not want any exceptions. We should either remove them all or this should instead be a policy change. 

[Snakebittenn]

The laser doesn't need to be removed. Also, it's the main point of the thread, can we talk about it instead?

Also, again, the sword is a weapon carried in a holster. Please.

Edited April 19, 2019 by ParadoxSpace

[Evandorf]

20 minutes ago, ParadoxSpace said:

The laser doesn't need to be removed. Also, it's the main point of the thread, can we talk about it instead?

Also, again, the sword is a weapon carried in a holster. Please.

To clarify, I have two issues.

1. Giving the Captain a weapon that is intended to be worn is simply an increase in his lethality and combat effectiveness regardless of whether or not it is carried in a sheath. As it currently stands the Captain can carry an epistol and baton at round start. Breaking out the antique without reason would be considered power gaming. If the sword is intended to be carried from the start then the Captain can still carry the epistol and baton with it, it just removes the need requirement that the antique currently has.

 

2. Forgive me for being pedantic, but at least where I live a sheathed sword would not count as a concealed weapon. Even holstered firearms do not count as concealed if the entirety of the holster is visible. The key is whether or not you can easily distinguish or discern what the weapon is. Ingame, when you look at a security officer you can see very little of the weapon sprite when holstered, if at all, and inspecting only shows that it is “an occupied holster”. A sword in its scabbard worn externally is clearly visible and can easily be distinguished. It would be inappropriate on code green, on a research station, as part of a non military company. 

[Snakebittenn]

This is not real life.

[Evandorf]

9 minutes ago, ParadoxSpace said:

This is not real life.

No, but we still put an incredible amount of time and energy into building the IC universe and changes we make to it should make sense within its lore and adhere to currently existing policies, both IC and OOC. 

[Snakebittenn]

There are other heads of staff that do, and are allowed to, carry multiple weapons at the same time. A melee weapon is not any increase in lethality when most combat with antags is either hilariously deadly in melee, or ranged. Also, I never said it counted as concealed. I said it counted as holstered. Considering the Captain can basically go grab any weapon on the station that would fit in a holster (because of ultimate authority), the lethality of what's in that holster doesn't matter.