Full Departmental Uniform Overhaul & More

[Kryostro]

Rather passive aggressive for your own thread about spiriting, I digress.

The server has alright sprites as it is, the only ones that are good in my opinion are medical and the rest are just.. ya, nah.

[Hendricks]

For variation. Duh. Bringing in new looks just makes things nicer. Seeing the same thing is so old. I’m all for bland uniforms. Just any type of change is refreshing. 

 

[SmallGreenAnt]

21 hours ago, AmoryBlaine said:

I'm not going to make changes, if you're going to act like a prick.

I know it's not always easy to take suggestions on your work. I think you opened yourself up to receiving the criticism and opinions of the community when you created this thread and I don't feel like anyone is discouraging you or being unappreciative of your efforts. 

[Kaed]

On 07/05/2019 at 10:53, Hendricks said:

For variation. Duh. Bringing in new looks just makes things nicer. Seeing the same thing is so old. I’m all for bland uniforms. Just any type of change is refreshing. 

 

I strongly disagree with this. If you're going to introduce something new it needs to be as good or better. Introducing something new that is worse is a bad step to take and it's just change for the sake of change.

Most of what I've seen so far is not a step forward. Both in the blandness of the uniforms and the sulky defensiveness displayed by the OP.

The old uniforms may not be the best looking things that we have, but they are well-drawn, a lot of them have shading and contrast to them. They feel like adequate simulations of a 3D object.

Most of these sprites appear to be two dimensional. It's evident that the spriter here is not extremely skilled, but is doing the best they can. It's nice that they took the time to make the sprites, but effort put forward does not automatically make something worth adding in regardless of its own merits or lack thereof.

I personally am strongly against streamlining appearance of characters to be only one certain way. The removal of uniform options it's a step down from what we currently have. There is also very little respect given to the thematic nature of colors in this game. It appears that the intention is to make uniforms look like generic sci-fi uniforms rather than space station 13 uniforms. On several occasions you have all but thrown away the color themes that make things distinctive, such as mining having purple, and security having black and blue.

This is a good start, but I think you need to make some more polish to these uniforms and listen to feedback from players.

[AmoryBlaine]

47 minutes ago, Kaed said:

I strongly disagree with this. If you're going to introduce something new it needs to be as good or better. Introducing something new that is worse is a bad step to take and it's just change for the sake of change.

These are better.

54 minutes ago, Kaed said:

Most of what I've seen so far is not a step forward. Both in the blandness of the uniforms and the sulky defensiveness displayed by the OP.

The 'blandness' of the uniforms is how I like them to look, bleached of colour. Greyed. I don't want cartoony over-contrast. I don't want bright colours everywhere. I'll be defensive as long as I have to deal with people whining about the importance of mining being purple, and how much I MUST hate the colour, because I don't want mining to use it. I don't particularly like disingenuous comments when I do respond to actual feedback, as per Skull's request, and VTC's response.
 

59 minutes ago, Kaed said:

The old uniforms may not be the best looking things that we have, but they are well-drawn, a lot of them have shading and contrast to them. They feel like adequate simulations of a 3D object. Most of these sprites appear to be two dimensional. It's evident that the spriter here is not extremely skilled, but is doing the best they can. It's nice that they took the time to make the sprites, but effort put forward does not automatically make something worth adding in regardless of its own merits or lack thereof.

The current sprites are nearly all the same sprite with a different colour palette. It's lazy and uninspired. If the only thing keeping the 'SS13 look' is copy-pasting, and using bright colours, than I'm very much so glad to work in contrast to it. Yes, I'm new to spriting. This project I'm heading, is an outlet for my creative drive. I intend to continue to work on it, until it is done. Whether Aurora uses them or not. Now, how exactly would I go about making the current sprites look more 3D?

 

1 hour ago, Kaed said:

I personally am strongly against streamlining appearance of characters to be only one certain way. The removal of uniform options it's a step down from what we currently have. There is also very little respect given to the thematic nature of colors in this game. It appears that the intention is to make uniforms look like generic sci-fi uniforms rather than space station 13 uniforms. On several occasions you have all but thrown away the color themes that make things distinctive, such as mining having purple, and security having black and blue.

Ironic, given what we already know about the current uniforms, being the same thing ad infinitum. Uniform options for Security is foolish. My intent has always been to make Security more uniform in its appearance. There's also the fact that the corporate uniform has become a symbol within security of shitSec. It's the most 'militant' of the uniforms, and attracts the most militant of sec players. I, for one, do not wish to continue indulging such behavior by keeping the uniform available to help these sorts of players visualize themselves as anything more than security guards. This does not mean that I am not spriting my own version.

Mining being purple, is ugly, they have- by far- the most offensive to the eyes uniforms out of any department. They wear those uniforms underneath voidsuits. They don't need to be coloured for easy visibility, because they won't be visible at all. The shade of dark blue their uniforms have, is nearly black. This is fine. If I feel so inclined, I will add more accents to it to further visualize their link to Cargo. The voidsuits, I leave almost entirely up to Kyres, as that's what he's been working on since forever. Though I will likely finish making my own voidsuit minor resprites once I've gotten a firm foundation for all the departmental uniforms, as to compliment the change from purple to orange/bronze/black.

If you'd be so willing as to elaborate on why it's so important that we keep the current jumpsuits, when they are- as you said, "Not be the best looking things that we have.", then maybe I'd try to copy them a bit more to the letter. But until then, I'm going to continue to break with the single sprite mold, and split the uniform variety into three catagories. Utility [Engineering, Atmospherics, Janitorial, Cargo], Sterile [Medical, RnD], and Misc [Command, Security, Service, 'Civillian']. 'Generic sci-fi' is not my goal, but if that's what you're seeing, I'd still like to know what's so great about the current 'look'.

1 hour ago, Kaed said:

This is a good start, but I think you need to make some more polish to these uniforms and listen to feedback from players.

I'll listen to whom I wish to. Maybe, rather than having made this giant long post, and having me respond to it, you should have listed things you wanted changed about the sprites. Don't you think that would be more productive?

[AmoryBlaine]

On 06/05/2019 at 18:16, VTCobaltblood said:

I'm not even sure what I said wrong - and I didn't mean to act like a prick - but I guess it's your choice to deliberately make sprites worse and less likely to be accepted?

This is the attitude I'm talking about.

[AmoryBlaine]

On 06/05/2019 at 18:06, Conspiir said:

Amory, keep in mind, you're the one trying to convince us. We don't have to accept what you're putting forward. This is a suggestion thread. You're a salesman. You're trying to appeal to us. If we're telling you "We don't like this part" or "This needs to be fixed," then you should probably listen because it boosts the likelihood of getting the best result. You haven't been a beacon of willing compromise yourself. I have to agree with VT. The darker outline looks much better. It's harder to tell any shading on it, though. Your HoS uniform looks more smear-like than the original, and I don't know how that will look.

No, I'm not going to try and convince you of anything, don't get it into your head that you're somehow in control here, just because I'm the one presenting the sprites. I'm going to take suggestions I agree with an implement them into my work. I'm not a salesmen, I'm an independent artist, showing you my work that can be hung up in your town hall, free of charge. The very nice thing that I'm doing is giving you the opportunity to voice what you'd like changed, in this entirely optional addition to the server. I could have very easily done all of these quietly, made a thread and left it. But I'm actively including suggestions here, into the development- that does not mean all suggestions will be added. The best result, is whatever I feel is the best result, the outcome of this not even being added to Aurora is quite high, and I don't mind that.

Concerning the uniform for Security, what exactly is wrong with how the uniform looks? I've included both a frontal and side view.

[Kaed]

Then I choose to voice my opinion that I don't think any of these 'optional additions to the server' need to be added.  I don't understand what you hope to accomplish by presenting these works then acting extremely snobby to any negative feedback here.  I don't think you really understand what it means to sell something to people.  You certainly aren't obligated to change your vision just because others don't agree with it, but when your response is to self-importantly tell people that 'you don't care what they think, your artistic vision is all that matters', you're not going to gain much support from them.

Your art doesn't deserve a pedestal or a place on anyone's fridge just because you think you deserve it.  You claim to not be trying to sell anyone this update, but by putting it out there as a reform to what we currently have, with phrases like I intend to remake every single uniform and a lot of the other clothing (jackets, hats, ect) in my own image, you are tacitly putting forward that you want people to accept your vision for the uniforms over others.  You can't do that then act like you're above the opinions of the masses and will only listen to what you want to hear.

So I have to say again that between the lower quality of the sprites and your unpleasant attitude, I don't want this work being associated with the server.  I don't think you should change them.  I think you should just stop, take a step back, and re-evaluate what you are doing here and how you are behaving. Yes, I'm only one voice, but you are picking fights with multiple other people at the same time, having to make multiple posts just to cover them all.  If you think learning how to be diplomatic is entirely irrelevant when you are presenting work to people, then I do not think you are going to get very far in an artistic career, even outside of voluntary spriting for this server.

You also make a lot of broad assumptions here that seem to be based on opinions that I don't share, like that the corporate uniform I enjoy is 'the symbol of shitsec', and that mining has 'the worst uniforms, but it doesn't matter because no one sees them'.  I don't agree with either of these things.  I think corporate uniforms look crisp and handsome, and I like looking good while I work as security, instead of like an ugly mall cop.  Shitty roleplayers will exist regardless of what they wear, and you are placing an irrational amount of weight on something you don't like as a cause for behavior you don't like. Your desire for feedback on what you have created indicates that everyone would enjoy your work if you just modified it a bit, but you reject any modification suggestions that your extremely specific vision doesn't agree with, so what is really the point of even giving you feedback?

Edited May 9, 2019 by Kaed

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

On 06/05/2019 at 01:13, Senpai Jackboot said:

here is my suggsetion

You are so conservative with the colors, you need to splash more of that beautiful color wheel onto your uniforms. make them POP. these are going to be super tiny when we see them in game we gotta be able to go "wtf department are they in" as fast as possible

What about this

[AmoryBlaine]

57 minutes ago, Kaed said:

Then I choose to voice my opinion that I don't think any of these 'optional additions to the server' need to be added. 

I guess that's too bad then. You'll just have to live with the fact that I intend to make these, no matter what you want, and that at the end of the day, if this is wanted, it will be added. If not, you can rest easy.

 

58 minutes ago, Kaed said:

I don't understand what you hope to accomplish by presenting these works then acting extremely snobby to any negative feedback here. 

Maybe it's a bit hard for you to understand, but everything I've posted is a Work in Progress. Whether it's added or not, I want constructive feedback. I don't care, that you don't like them at all and don't want them added. That doesn't help me make better sprites. Five different people telling me that "IT NEEDS MORE CONTRAST.", when it's literally already been shown in a picture and response that it's being done, doesn't help me make better sprites. Nor does arguing about the colour of a department, or the availability of alternate Security uniforms.  

1 hour ago, Kaed said:

I don't think you really understand what it means to sell something to people.  You certainly aren't obligated to change your vision just because others don't agree with it, but when your response is to self-importantly tell people that 'you don't care what they think, your artistic vision is all that matters', you're not going to gain much support from them. 

Then it's a lost cause to try and win you over. I tried to see what you wanted already, by asking you to further clarify what the issues are with the sprites, other than "They look 2D, and lack the colour themes of SS13." You've not answered this. 

1 hour ago, Kaed said:

Your art doesn't deserve a pedestal or a place on anyone's fridge just because you think you deserve it. 

Tell me something I don't know. But that doesn't change the fact that vaguely hinting at why the sprites are awful, is useless to me. If Conspiir wants to argue about the colour Purple, and VTC wants to try and act like a prick about something I'm actively working on, while people like Jackboot are literally making visual examples of how they're like me to change the sprites- I'm going to focus on Jackboot.

1 hour ago, Kaed said:

You claim to not be trying to sell anyone this update, but by putting it out there as a reform to what we currently have, with phrases like I intend to remake every single uniform and a lot of the other clothing (jackets, hats, ect) in my own image, you are tacitly putting forward that you want people to accept your vision for the uniforms over others.  You can't do that then act like you're above the opinions of the masses and will only listen to what you want to hear. 

I'm remaking all the sprites in my own image. This thread will showcase that and allow input. Complain about how awful they are, elsewhere, if you aren't going to actually contribute to me trying to make them better past vague criticisms.

1 hour ago, Kaed said:

So I have to say again that between the lower quality of the sprites and your unpleasant attitude, I don't want this work being associated with the server.  I don't think you should change them.  I think you should just stop, take a step back, and re-evaluate what you are doing here and how you are behaving.

I think I'm behaving quite well. I've no reason to not call out VTC's behavior which is entirely uncalled for, or dispute Conspiir's constant accusation that I hate purple, simply because I don't feel it should be on the Mining team's gear. Nor should I have to spend my time responding to you as you do nothing to give anything constructive to me, past vague criticisms of 2D-ness, and not being 'SS13' enough. You don't seem to want to answer to this, and explain- so I have no reason to even attempt to change things in a manner that would be favoured by you.

 

1 hour ago, Kaed said:

Yes, I'm only one voice, but you are picking fights with multiple other people at the same time, having to make multiple posts just to cover them all.  If you think learning how to be diplomatic is entirely irrelevant when you are presenting work to people, then I do not think you are going to get very far in an artistic career, even outside of voluntary spriting for this server.

Why is it that Skull says, "The contrast could be higher." I oblige, and then get VTC making a snide remark, as though I need a 'congratulations' on finding a proper balance for contrast like this was some large task for me to accomplish. This is not constructive. I don't care for it. Conspiir has been going on about the colour purple for all of his posts, this is not constructive. My focus here, is hardly on Mining, I have another whole thread about mining and the colour purple that he can go talk in, if that's his fancy.
Jackboot's being constructive. Jackboot posted his own edited version of the RnD uniform, that's helpful to me. He didn't even just explain what he wanted changed- which would have been what I expected- he asked me for the sprite, and did the change himself- and I obliged him. DasFox doesn't like his change, but I do. Who do I choose, though? How exactly am I suppose to 'sell' this now that there's a direct dispute over a change I may or may not make.

 

1 hour ago, Kaed said:

You also make a lot of broad assumptions here that seem to be based on opinions that I don't share, like that the corporate uniform I enjoy is 'the symbol of shitsec', and that mining has 'the worst uniforms, but it doesn't matter because no one sees them'.  I don't agree with either of these things.  I think corporate uniforms look crisp and handsome, and I like looking good while I work as security, instead of like an ugly mall cop.

Which uniform is the most visually offensive, then, seeing as you don't believe it to be the mining overalls.

1 hour ago, Kaed said:

Shitty roleplayers will exist regardless of what they wear, and you are placing an irrational amount of weight on something you don't like as a cause for behavior you don't like. 

So you do not believe that visuals have a large contribution to behavior of individuals? You think it's a coincidence for the most part, that there's a large quantity of corp wearing characters that are subpar and liable to powertrip? You think that removing this identifier won't help to quell the issue?

1 hour ago, Kaed said:

 Your desire for feedback on what you have created indicates that everyone would enjoy your work if you just modified it a bit, but you reject any modification suggestions that your extremely specific vision doesn't agree with, so what is really the point of even giving you feedback?

To further the sprite creation. Not try and stop them being added in their current state, as is been tried so far. The only thing I've said no to- definitively- is putting purple on my mining sprites.

 

 

[AmoryBlaine]

1 hour ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

What about this

I'm still thinking it over. I do think it's not that bad a change. I'll keep both versions, with and without the arm stripes.

[AmoryBlaine]

The first one can be for assistants, the second for full-on Researchers. Makes enough sense to me.

Spoiler

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

makes sense to me

[Conspiir]

1 hour ago, AmoryBlaine said:

Conspiir has been going on about the colour purple for all of his posts, this is not constructive.

I've given you reasons why it should stay. I've given you reasons why replacing it with black is bad. I've also contributed a literal visual example as an addition to Jackboot's design that is an in-between of your down-to-the-crotch jumpsuit and your new shirt-and-pants design. What did you think of it and the reasoning for it?

 

1 hour ago, AmoryBlaine said:

My focus here, is hardly on Mining

Whether it is your "focus" or not, it is a part of your suggestion, and the part I can respond to as I feel strongly about it. If you don't want to hear about mining, remove it from the suggestion. You have it here. It is on the table for discussion. I am discussing it.

 

1 hour ago, AmoryBlaine said:

I have another whole thread about mining and the colour purple that he can go talk in, if that's his fancy.

You wanted that thread stopped in favor of this one. Your exact post was:

On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 17:54, AmoryBlaine said:

Nevermind this then. I'll remake the suggestion when I've finished my full station overhaul for uniforms and equipment.

So here we are. I can't make you a visual example of what I'd like the mining outfit to be, because what is proposed here is a step down from what is already available. I contributed a literal visual example of what would happen if you added purple and yellow. It was not any real improvement, and I still did not like it very much. If I was going to give you a further example, I would just resprite it myself. As it stands, I think mining is fine for now until we get a different option to discuss that is an upgrade.

[AmoryBlaine]

1 minute ago, Conspiir said:

I've given you reasons why it should stay. I've given you reasons why replacing it with black is bad. I've also contributed a literal visual example as an addition to Jackboot's design that is an in-between of your down-to-the-crotch jumpsuit and your new shirt-and-pants design. What did you think of it and the reasoning for it?

That was already decided against, actually, and was just a hold over from when I got in an argument over whether it should be down to the crotch or not, instead of a jacket and pants like the the utility clothing. I got side-tracked with VTC and forgot to include a blurb about it. As for why you think black is bad, I'm still not convinced that it's anything special to keep it purple. A dark-blue/black outfit stands out as much as a purple and yellow one, given that the background is always going to be grey unless you fall into space. But then again, why are you not wearing a suit if you're EVA.

8 minutes ago, Conspiir said:

So here we are. I can't make you a visual example of what I'd like the mining outfit to be, because what is proposed here is a step down from what is already available. I contributed a literal visual example of what would happen if you added purple and yellow. It was not any real improvement, and I still did not like it very much. If I was going to give you a further example, I would just resprite it myself. As it stands, I think mining is fine for now until we get a different option to discuss that is an upgrade.

I forgot I closed it, my mistake. Either or, in regards to what you've said about the mining outfit. You tried to match the same shade of purple and yellow as the dark blue- which makes no sense, imo, and was pretty clearly going to be ugly. I want dark mining, I like how it looks. A lot. But. At the very most, purely to make you be quiet, I will make a khaki-ish version using what I originally wanted for the cargo outfits. Also, here's a nicer looking version of what you did.

Spoiler

 

[AmoryBlaine]

This is still peak Mining, and if anyone speaks against it, I will personally have CCIAA destroy them IRL.

Spoiler

[Butterrobber202]

9 hours ago, AmoryBlaine said:

This is still peak Mining, and if anyone speaks against it, I will personally have CCIAA destroy them IRL.

  Reveal hidden contents

they look like poorly funded paramilitary 

[AmoryBlaine]

3 hours ago, Butterrobber202 said:

they look like poorly funded paramilitary 

Mining is now for MEN. BLUE COLLAR. MEN.

If this doesn't appeal to you- I'm sorry, but there's nothing I can do.

Spoiler

 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

27 minutes ago, AmoryBlaine said:

Mining is now for MEN. BLUE COLLAR. MEN.

Purple collar men and women ☺️

Again the purple would be good on the shoulders. The black also makes it look like the tacticool turtleneck. They appear to be a paramilitary i have to agree. White tank tops would more fit the mouthfeel of miners.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Irl coal miner outfits seem more colorful than what you say is realistic when they arent covered in grime

Blues, bright visibility strips, a scarf, reds...

 

[AmoryBlaine]

@Senpai Jackboot

Yeah, BUT, we also need to remember that these guys are wearing what's gonna be visible when they're in the mines. Our guys are just wearing something for when they'll be sitting around the bar, or sorting ores inside. It's not a requirement that they wear something like the Engineering team- high visibility, caution colours, a lot of pockets- nor anything the MedSci branches wear- sterility, formal appearance-. So they get dark blue clothing to wear under their suits.

 

[Conspiir]

They'll also be wearing their department colors, ideally. It doesn't make much sense to have a drastic change between EVA gear (which must be high-vis) and uniform gear just because "they'll be inside so their inside gear doesn't need colors." I should be able to tell the difference between a miner in uniform and a visitor without looking at their ID, and that is best accomplished through unique and colorful clothing.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Conspiir

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

1 hour ago, Conspiir said:

They'll also be wearing their department colors, ideally. It doesn't make much sense to have a drastic change between EVA gear (which must be high-vis) and uniform gear just because "they'll be inside so their inside gear doesn't need colors." I should be able to tell the difference between a miner in uniform and a visitor without looking at their ID, and that is best accomplished through unique and colorful clothing.

I agree with this.

[AmoryBlaine]

7 hours ago, Conspiir said:

They'll also be wearing their department colors, ideally. It doesn't make much sense to have a drastic change between EVA gear (which must be high-vis) and uniform gear just because "they'll be inside so their inside gear doesn't need colors." I should be able to tell the difference between a miner in uniform and a visitor without looking at their ID, and that is best accomplished through unique and colorful clothing.

They wear all-dark blue outfits, with suspenders/overalls underneath. So, they don't look like anyone else.

[AmoryBlaine]

In regards to Detectives and Forensics. I'm thinking of cutting the amount of shit they get down, a lot. Why does the Detective need to get three separate outfits in his locker, plus jackets and hats? I only see them needing a single always spawning outfit, a work uniform. Everything else should be their own personal business attire. That includes the jackets and hats. Just put it on the loadout or have it spawn on the character, unless they pick to have a different coat and hat with them.

Any thoughts on this standardized uniform? I was thinking of just going with what the Forensic Tech already gets. They share one of these uniforms, they aren't expected to wear it, but it's there if they want to. Just like now. We add all the detective locked outfits to the suit list so people have more variety. Or, we just delete them. The standard detective outfit is really, really crappy. And I plan on respriting it to be a better shade of brown.

Spoiler