[Resolved] Player Complaint - Lin Dyslioth, MissNatcula

[MattAtlas]

BYOND Key: MattAtlas

Game ID: Not applicable - this is a complaint about overall behaviour on the character and player.

Player Byond Key/Character name: Lin Dyslioth, MissNatcula

Staff involved: None.

Reason for complaint: Unreasonable character that should not be in a head of staff position, let alone be allowed to exist as is.

To understand this complaint, you must understand the typical round that Lin plays in. Any antagonist whose gimmick does not entirely revolve around Lin gets immediately shutdown by her - be it via profusely denying their gimmick or immediately having them annihilated on the spot. This is extremely validhunty behaviour that, to my knowledge, is explained as her character being this way, which is absolutely unacceptable. I've had this described to me as "if they don't get the spotlight, they go nuts ICly" - which is very true, because this is exactly what has happened and keeps happening as long as this character keeps being allowed to be this way.

Lin oftentimes takes completely unreasonable courses of action to shutdown antags. Prime example: b2-ce0j, where they almost went chasing an armed antag out of the bridge with a softsuit on, which didn't happen only because security pleaded her to. Later in the round, they armed themselves with a hazard hardsuit and every single weapon in the armoury except a shotgun with about three officers on-shift to focus on taking down the antag alone. This was all because the spotlight was not on her. This behaviour completely changes when they're made a hostage or the antag's gimmick revolves around them. A character that behaves this way, and is justified as this being a character trait, should not be allowed. I have been told that this is their character's behaviour.

Delving more into their issues as a player, it can be very easily noticed how much their validhunting tendencies show themselves in the average round. Very often they'll use the excuse of "I'm implanted and therefore I would die for Nanotrasen" to shut down many antagonists - they use their role as head of security to use the armoury for themselves rather than actually coordinate the department. This is not what heads of staff should be about, and I refuse to believe that someone who chooses to behave this way should be allowed to hold, let alone GET, a head of staff whitelist.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? It was not ahelped. This is the culmination of many rounds of complaints.

Approximate Date/Time: Unapplicable. This complaint is about total character behaviour.

Edited July 19, 2019 by ReadThisNamePlz

[MissNatcula]

I firstly want to say the first part of your complaint about my char or me; which ever, throwing a fit because a gimmick doesn't revolve around me is total bull. There are tons and tons and tons of rounds I let antags do w/e they want. I give them tons of chances to play out their gimmicks but do you understand that as HOS, you are loyalty implanted. Its literally BUILT into your char as HOS to not allow active antags against the station roam around willy nilly if core station laws and regs have been broken.

This includes; stealing high value items, intruding a station with no valid right and putting crew at risk, not complying with simple demands and orders from security to ensure property protocol and safety measures are followed, not listening and doing what they want ignoring security {surprise surprise}

You come on station as a merc team with full lethal weapons and wonder by Lin stops you and tells you to leave? HM.

Have you even SEEN some of the other HOS on station? Lin is pale in comparison and quite fairly played if you are a antag who doesn't obviously go out of their way to break the rules in front of her. She has simple principles that make her easy for antags to get around if they play smart. Sorry that I expect antags to come up with convincing gimmicks instead of 'I'm a ninja and I totally stole all the captains shit but let me visit'. Clearly you hardly have seen my playing if you automatically assume I'm a valid hunting, self centered fun killer.

I assume you are making this because of the wiz round. Which my char had rights to shut them down in the end when her officer was reported to be doing inappropriate things, disobeying an order, and then the wiz turned her to stone, repeatedly. Was it because it 'wasn't about my char' no. Infact the wiz came to her office at the beginning, we rped, I said go and do your thing. The conflict started unrelated to what the wiz was doing and was only about her officer but the wiz made themselves involved. There was ton of other variables and conversations you probably didn't see. But its easy I guess for a outsider to come to this conclusion.

As for the round you mentioned, I don't remember any round going on like that. I don't empty the armory. You can ask most people who play with in sec. I usually always only use the tranq rifle and a carbine. If the antag is seriously hostile and I need lethals I'll use a energy rifle or whatever is appropriate. If I 'emptied' it it was to take them to other officers. If this was about the round where there was a huge fight outside the elevators, thats what happened. The weapons were taken to the officers already there. Again, you clearly don't watch me as much as you seem to think you do if you think I do this as a normal thing. I've literally had people COMPLAIN I don't open the armory quick enough. So tell me, which is it? Because there is serious conflicting opinion from what I hear others say and what you just said.

Also the implant and loyalty to NT? She was deftly loyal to NT before even making HOS. I've played Lin for over a year now and she has ALWAYS been loyal to NT and the law. She stood on the station as a warden when revs blew it up and said 'I server NT' refusing to abandon her company and station to join the revs who took over the entire station. Is having a officer who ACTUALLY VALUES the law and strives to uphold it and also greatly is devoted to the company she works for so far fetched to you? Why did you NEVER bring up Lin's values BEFORE she made HOS? Funny that.

Also I coordinate quite a bit with security. Yeah sure, like anyone, I'm human and I slip up and maybe don't communicate as good as I could. But you can't say ANYONE is perfect 24/7 and I do actively try to coordinate more on the coms as of late. Its honestly everyones one major flaw there is a lack of communication. Not just mine.

[BoryaTheSlayer]

Right. As someone who's been playing security quite a lot lately, especially with Lin as HoS, I've got a piece to say.
Not only do I agree with Matt on absolutely every point he made, but I also can argue your points, Natcula.
There were at least 3 rounds where Lin Dyslioth got turned into a vampire by Veetek Kalna last week, each time, somehow, loyalty implant refuses to work and instead Lin allows her friend to just bite her and the rest of the crew. I'm not even talking about how boring it is to see the same thing happen every round, but I just wonder how does that happen every single time with the same people.

That wiz round, no. Did she turn you into stone? Yes, in retaliation. Did that really allow for a massive validhunt that ensued? Absolutely not. We were being chased and were announced shoot on sight when we only retaliated in response to security's actions. One of the wizard's followers wasn't even an antag and didn't even do anything.
I'm not even going to talk about how Lin will jump at any opportunity to get the tranq out. It's just a big shutdown for any antag.

Enough about antags, though. I don't play them myself to really know how it feels to be on that side when Lin is the shift's HoS. I do have quite a lot to say about Lin as a security officer, though. Let's start off with that you do not coordinate with security. I genuinely want to call it a lie, but can't since Lin does actually give orders or updates on occasion. And no, that's actually genuinely an issue only with Lin. All other commanders talk way more with their team, they actually feel like the leader of security. Lin doesn't. She's just there, doing her own thing. There are many officers who can say that they do not respect Lin Dyslioth as their leader. I have not heard the same about other HoS characters.
Hasam May'Dar-Al-Kandari, my Zhan-Khazan officer, always gets ignored on comms by Dyslioth whenever he requests orders or clarifications. Very rarely do I actually feel like I get acknowledged. Hasam's interactions with Lin are limited to briefing rooms and after-round shenanigans, for the most part. She seems confused by Tajaran names sometimes, from what I've seen. If that and some other minor things I picked up from RP are indications of Lin disliking Tajara, then please, don't just ignore the character. I'd rather have people insult him or act condescending towards him. It's an actual interaction and not nothing.

[Cnaym]

20 minutes ago, MissNatcula said:

Also I coordinate quite a bit with security. Yeah sure, like anyone, I'm human and I slip up and maybe don't communicate as good as I could. But you can't say ANYONE is perfect 24/7 and I do actively try to coordinate more on the coms as of late. Its honestly everyones one major flaw there is a lack of communication. Not just mine.

Strongly agree, the rest of command often has a problem when Lin goes quiet, which i cannot judge since i don't do HoS. I figure it's a busy and dangerous job, there are better people at that. I myself am guilty of  not answering to everyone all the time.

22 minutes ago, MissNatcula said:

Lin is pale in comparison and quite fairly played if you are a antag who doesn't obviously go out of their way to break the rules in front of her. She has simple principles that make her easy for antags to get around if they play smart.

Can confirm, abused this, got free out of jail ^^ no realy... if you are traitor, play the heads, you will get off the hook quite often for only having a emag or captains headset on you... heck i got away telling i found the captains headset chip way too often.

3 hours ago, Datamatt said:

where they almost went chasing an armed antag out of the bridge with a softsuit on

Think i watched this round and it is (at least for me) a meme to see Lin go for the suit and tranq rifle fairly early... again not a HoS player so i can't judge, it's just something that makes me chuckle every time.

Overall I'd say that the complain makes some points which i see, but without Logs detailing that it sounds very much like a total bash. I get people are unhappy with current HoSs, I am guilty of this aswell. Looking at the new ones (John Lock or Jesse Armstrong) hast certainly brought in some fresh air... i liked the round where we had two HoSs and i think working as a warden under another HoS should be something you do once in a while to get a feel of how someone else handles the situations. Why do i bring up the warden role? Lin does that and i think it can be a good way to learn.

29 minutes ago, MissNatcula said:

I firstly want to say the first part of your complaint about my char or me; which ever, throwing a fit because a gimmick doesn't revolve around me is total bull.

Iffy.... i play Julia Barnes  and we had some rounds that revolved heavily around Lin. Again not sure if that is due to the role... for example on lowpop you get heavily targeted as HoP, while on a full server the captain is a juicy target. When i went down to xenobio to burn a vamp and she followed all they way i would have made the same point... but she was a thrall and did exactly what she had to. 

About raiding the entire armory. I have not seen that behaviour of her yet, i have however seen her going for a tranq shot and then pulling out the carbine which at that point didn't exactly make people happy in DChat. Again -> No logs, no proof, not going to write a complaint about a single thing from a chaotic round. If you feel like Lin is a bad command member or MissNatcula just outright sucks at the game find logs that show your points. I got my own problems with the character Lin, but a rant is not the way to go about that.

[SatinsPristOTD]

18 minutes ago, BoryaTheSlayer said:

There were at least 3 rounds where Lin Dyslioth got turned into a vampire by Veetek Kalna last week, each time, somehow, loyalty implant refuses to work and instead Lin allows her friend to just bite her and

LI's don't work against Vampires. It's also not her fault that Veetek seeks out the Head of Security for a minion. It's low pop and having the HoS under your belt is quite the power play.

Lin can go quiet, yes, but so do a lot of other Commanders. It's an incredibly stressful position to play. I play Command almost every round I'm on. This isn't just a "Natcula" issue. It's just the stress of the job, weighing down the player and character.

I don't think you understand the ramifications of turning a person to stone. I want you to think about it, logically, and tell me why you wouldn't go after someone who has the ability to turn the crew of Aurora to stone, at a moments notice, and do God knows what while they're that way. "Lolz the wizard just turned you to stone dude." Okay, but imagine some freak of nature just cast you in a carbonite bath for a few minutes.

This doesn't have much proof, it's just everyones word against theirs, with one questionable situation thrown in.

Edited July 15, 2019 by SatinsPristOTD
grammar

[BoryaTheSlayer]

1 minute ago, SatinsPristOTD said:

LI's don't work against Vampires. It's also not her fault that Veetek seeks out the Head of Security for a minion. It's low pop and having the HoS under your belt is quite the power play.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Dark1Star said:

Well, that's a fault on Veetek Kalna, they have almost all their antags turned on, and if there is a vamp round, Kalna will always go to Lin first, and yes, it's getting really annoying and I hope Kalna stops. Also, Loyalty Implants do not work on vampires/thralls.

Yeah. I found that out right after I posted. Really sorry about that. I still genuinely have no idea why does Lin go along with it every single time--this stands more as a question now than a critique of anything.

[SatinsPristOTD]

Because she HAS to go with whatever the vampires RP says. Part of this complaint is her "shutting down antag gimmicks". Now we're questioning why she plays ALONG with antag gimmicks.

I have witnessed this player just get ahelped for the most absolute bullshit reasons. She literally cannot win for losing anymore. Pick a side and tell her what you want, because this "Well she needs to do this but at the same time I want her to do that" is getting old to witness.

[BoryaTheSlayer]

2 minutes ago, SatinsPristOTD said:

Because she HAS to go with whatever the vampires RP says. Part of this complaint is her "shutting down antag gimmicks". Now we're questioning why she plays ALONG with antag gimmicks.

I have witnessed this player just get ahelped for the most absolute bullshit reasons. She literally cannot win for losing anymore. Pick a side and tell her what you want, because this "Well she needs to do this but at the same time I want her to do that" is getting old to witness.

Okay. I don't think my point is being understood, and after a bit of my own thinking I see that it's weak anyway. Let's drop this, again, sorry.

[MissNatcula]

I was literally warned by Garn about remaining loyal to the law when bit by a vamp the first time I rped a conflict of interest. I myself, have no control what Kalna's char does. Nor can you really do anything to prevent being turned into a vamp. If you have a problem with that take it up with Kalna, or Garn who gave me a warning for rping anything related to loyalty implants after being bitten. Honestly I like to give all antags a fair chance. You ask to talk in her office? Sure. Exactly how I said it above. Lin is pretty chill giving antags a chance but then its a double edge sword of people hating me because, of well look at the main topic of this complain. Its not about me so I throw a fit? Seriously?

 

I told Conway to go patrol and Jarvis to take over escourting the Wiz, which he was suppose to be doing anyways and the Wiz instead got inbetween Lin and her officers and turned her to stone. Also obviously after you get turned to stone four times, in a row, you are not going to want that person who did that to you on the station any longer. Especially after you said you'd get them an ID; which even after what they did Lin went and got Conway his ID properly suspended and the wiz her id with a title which she didn't even have to fucking do, allowed to them freely roam and didn't do anything to them before that. Not sure what you see wrong with this. Also a lot of the times the tranq doesn't even take down an antag I'm perusing.

 

Funny you bring up Hasam as Lin literally had a conversation with some one about them and not minding them at all working together. She even said for a tarajan they are a good officer and one of the ones she trusts to get a job done when its needed. Which lets be honest there is a lot of officers who don't listen; which I don't control people ooc and them not respecting me is COMPLETELY out of my control no matter what I do and honestly I know for a fact some of its oocly drive. I also have not had Lin purposely been a dick to Hasam, despite her bias against tarajan. She even used Hasam as their name instead of Al, when she strictly usually ONLY refers people to their last name. She comes from Sol in a place xenos were more rare then a butterfly. Tajaran is only something she has dealt with for less then a decade. She knows hardly anything about their culture, and honestly in the past her experiences have been bad which is how and why she has a negative bias against them. She has recently made some progress getting to know them a bit. Infact, even Unathi were a bit of a mystery to her and she hated Kalna till very very recently. It kinda hurts that you wave her off completely as being ignored. Sometimes stuff in chat gets missed. Don't take it so personal. A lot of text flies by the screen. You'd be surprised how far you can get with Lin if you just stop and actually talk to her. This is all stuff you'd learn...if ironically you stopped and talked to her.

 

People tend to LOVE shit talking her in dchat but a lot of you guys don't even bother ever, ever try and get to know her. You judge her, and so many other characters; not just mine. for face value. Its easy to hate people as a ghost. You are not in the situation, you don't see every side of a situation. You don't know how those characters think, work, feel, their friends and outside things driving their actions. Maybe one of Lin's rare and only friends is in danger, maybe the captain is in danger and she'd put her life on the line to do anything to protect them, maybe she had to deal with 13 other shit heads and now suddenly another antag had popped up and she has lost her marbles. ANY role in sec is extremely stressful. Officer, warden, HOS. If you are truly dedicated to sec you know this. People will get mad if you don't stop the antag, people will get mad you did stop the antag, people get mad no matter what you fucking do. Ghosts will say you have shit plays, say you deserved to die when you die and enter dsay.

 

So in short, the only opinion I care about anymore is the admins. Because at this point I've gotten so much hate in the last couple of months before and even more so after making HOS that I just don't see a point anymore. I've blocked ooc completely, I muted every discord channel except announcements, I don't reply to people who random message me on discord if its trash talking and I mind my own business and stay in char. I just want to play, and rp and maybe find others who also want to just play and rp.

 

I wont be saying anything more here.

Edited July 15, 2019 by MissNatcula

[KingOfThePing]

As usual you act overly defensive and hostile, as soon as someone critizes you, but I am not here to judge you on that, because it's no new behaviour and I don't think you actually care about the fact that it's just abrasive. Same goes with always the same reasons and excuses how no one wants to know the character and everyone is always so evil to her.

 

2 hours ago, MissNatcula said:

I've gotten so much hate in the last couple of months before and even more so after making HOS that I just don't see a point anymore.

While I don't have a problem with you at all or your character too much (I don't play security) you might want to ask yourself if all the others are in the wrong or you maybe do something wrong in the end. Closing your eyes is one way to deal with it, though apparently. I supported you in your application and I have nothing against you, but what you write really makes me shake my head. You do not allow any other point of view about this topic, except your own, at least it seems that way. I'm sorry but from an observer's perspective, what I was until now, this seems all really bizarre.

[Activeknockback]

One thing that i have noticed over the course of the station is the inconsistency of admin enforcement of rules/lore. I have seen bwoinks happen due to some insane reasons and then nothing for something that would break the entire round for others that are extended. Lin is a very dedicated character, be her Implanted or Not. I work with her constantly as Maxwell, she throws herself at threats to protect the station at crew to protect them, but she is able to be bested in non-combative ways. Where I find issue with this is how much she gets harassed ICly over every minor detail, even if it's by the book to the point I worry there are meta-grudges from some people who might not know the antag role they sign up for in other rounds. Part of her whole shtick is efficient loyalty to NT. If I am an antag and go with a poor/weak gimmick, then it should be me to get better and do research into ways to promote more RP with the crew.

Most of the time Lin is HoS, she is one of usually two Heads of staff on. With only those two on, one of them is bound to be doing a lot of RP with antags, but there are ways to introduce characters without derailing the entire flow of the round. I watch it more often then not that the antags make no effort to RP anything other then gun happy hostage takers. Perhaps they are the ones who need to be looked at instead of a well put together character who likes what they do and is loyal to their employer?

[GlitterGuts]

10 hours ago, MissNatcula said:

I firstly want to say the first part of your complaint about my char or me; which ever, throwing a fit because a gimmick doesn't revolve around me is total bull. There are tons and tons and tons of rounds I let antags do w/e they want. I give them tons of chances to play out their gimmicks but do you understand that as HOS, you are loyalty implanted.

I can vouch for this. As antag myself she deliberately ignores some things to further the plot, like that I had slipped out of my cuffs in the brig, which she made it clear that she was ickly unaware of. Guards did a poor job of searching me and I snuck out with my emag once she left to get me some food. I think she has her odd moments ickly but I just play that out as a character flaw, not a player flaw. Do too well and you're considered valid-hunty. Not to well enough and it makes you seem like an incompetent HoS that shouldnt be a head in the first place. It seems like a very unfair lose-lose situation if they cant have a little fun with it.

[Dark1Star]

10 hours ago, KingOfThePing said:

As usual you act overly defensive and hostile, as soon as someone critizes you, but I am not here to judge you on that, because it's no new behaviour and I don't think you actually care about the fact that it's just abrasive. Same goes with always the same reasons and excuses how no one wants to know the character and everyone is always so evil to her.

 

To be fair, I can't blame her for b eing overly defensive. How would you like it if people got annoyed every round because you're a HoS and shut down their gimmick because they didn't play it right, find a way around sec, or just even go guns crazy. I've started to notice that people have been trying to find /every/ IC string that they can pull, for a good enough reseaon to get her bwoinked and perhaps even warned. It's not on the character its self either. This is OOCly a grudge against Nat her self. I bet you one-hundred-percent, that if Nat did away with Lin and made a new HoS, people wouldn't complain as much.

But that's besides the point, people shouldn't have to make new characters to avoid people flaming on the player themselves.

[MattAtlas]

I have already provided an example of this exact thing happening: the merc round she was punished in. Clearly, if she was punished, there is an issue. I wouldn't have made this complaint if that behaviour had stopped, which is why I provided another round ID where the exact same thing happens. @Cnaym, I think you misunderstand - I provide the round IDs, the admins provide the logs. I do not have any way to get logs as a player, because I do not save them and my own logs do not encompass the whole situation. Posting your own logs is downright deceptive and a shitty way of furthering an argument with subjective evidence, so please don't try to get me to do something like that, thank you.

Natcula, I am in all honesty not interested in hearing a sob story. I'm not here shitting on you as a player. Everything I have said is what I have observed about your character with the evidence needed for the admins to reach a conclusion. I've not called you garbage, I've not called you a shithead, nor have I ever insulted you. There is no reason for you to go off on me like that. I do not appreciate trying to sway my argument with what is essentially just a sob story. I could not care less about people harassing you, I would have made this complaint regardless. Considering you won't be saying anything anymore, it'd be pointless to reply to you.

 

58 minutes ago, Dark1Star said:

To be fair, I can't blame her for b eing overly defensive. How would you like it if people got annoyed every round because you're a HoS and shut down their gimmick because they didn't play it right, find a way around sec, or just even go guns crazy. I've started to notice that people have been trying to find /every/ IC string that they can pull, for a good enough reseaon to get her bwoinked and perhaps even warned. It's not on the character its self either. This is OOCly a grudge against Nat her self. I bet you one-hundred-percent, that if Nat did away with Lin and made a new HoS, people wouldn't complain as much.

But that's besides the point, people shouldn't have to make new characters to avoid people flaming on the player themselves.

Are you seriously implying I made a complaint because I have an OOC grudge? This is downright grasping at straws. I have provided objective evidence, including an entire round ID and the events from my side of the story - how is this an OOC grudge? If I had an OOC grudge I wouldn't have made a complaint in the first place, because I wouldn't have had hard evidence. The latter half of what you just posted makes absolutely no sense anyways. Of course, if I complain about the character, and the character vanishes and gets replaced by a better one, why would I complain? I can flip your own style of argument around too: your argument seems to be one you made purely because your friend's standing on hot coal. A metabuddy grudge, perhaps? I'm pretty sure you don't like being accused of having a metaclique, so keep that in mind.

 

In addition, please don't try to undermine my complaint based on what others that are not me say. You can't go and say "This complaint has flipped its entire premise!" then the original poster hasn't actually made a post acknowledging what someone else says as true.

 

14 hours ago, SatinsPristOTD said:

This doesn't have much proof, it's just everyones word against theirs, with one questionable situation thrown in.

I gave proof - the round IDs. I need nothing other than logs to prove my point. For the reason, see above.

Note: "He did it, so I can do it!" is not a valid excuse to play a completely nuts head of security.

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Datamatt

[Dark1Star]

2 minutes ago, Datamatt said:

Are you seriously implying I made a complaint because I have an OOC grudge? This is downright grasping at straws. I have provided objective evidence, including an entire round ID and the events from my side of the story - how is this an OOC grudge? If I had an OOC grudge I wouldn't have made a complaint in the first place, because I wouldn't have had hard evidence. The latter half of what you just posted makes absolutely no sense anyways. Of course, if I complain about the character, and the character vanishes and gets replaced by a better one, why would I complain? I can flip your own style of argument around too: your argument seems to be one you made purely because your friend's standing on hot coal. A metabuddy grudge, perhaps? I'm pretty sure you don't like being accused of having a metaclique, so keep that in mind.

I'm not implying that this post is a meta-grudge in general. It just appears these days that most people want to grasp at straws and to try and get her bwoinked, and I don't even know what a metaclique is either, google doesn't come up with anything so idk.

Either way, there might be issues, there might not be, everyone has them, in the end it's a game.

[MattAtlas]

2 minutes ago, Dark1Star said:

I'm not implying that this post is a meta-grudge in general. It just appears these days that most people want to grasp at straws and to try and get her bwoinked, and I don't even know what a metaclique is either, google doesn't come up with anything so idk.

Either way, there might be issues, there might not be, everyone has them, in the end it's a game.

"In the end it's a game" is not a valid argument against a complaint. I'm arguing for making a character unable to be a HoS for the betterment of the game. If that's seriously your only argument, perhaps the original complaint is right.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Datamatt

[Dark1Star]

4 minutes ago, Datamatt said:

"In the end it's a game" is not a valid argument against a complaint. I'm arguing for making a character unable to be a HoS for the betterment of the game. If that's seriously your only argument, perhaps the original complaint is right.

Personally, I've never had isuses with Lin as a character. Perhaps when I first started playing yes, but that was about a year ago on this server. I can say for a fact there have been times where Lin should've done something better, but with most of my experience Lin is usually one of the better HoSs out there. I've seen much worse, and I do agree that, we should all be making the game better. Perhaps you could give some constructive critasism and feedback, instead of just complaining about them.

Perhaps you could explain what she should of done better and why.

[MattAtlas]

9 minutes ago, Dark1Star said:

Personally, I've never had isuses with Lin as a character. Perhaps when I first started playing yes, but that was about a year ago on this server. I can say for a fact there have been times where Lin should've done something better, but with most of my experience Lin is usually one of the better HoSs out there. I've seen much worse, and I do agree that, we should all be making the game better. Perhaps you could give some constructive critasism and feedback, instead of just complaining about them.

Perhaps you could explain what she should of done better and why.

Unlike you, I cannot say I've met a worse HoS recently. Most people I've spoken to about Lin end up saying that they don't want to play security under them and just skip the round. Which is unfortunate, but this is the case when the player plays HoS for 10+ hours at a time. Every other HoS I've seen in recent times has outclassed them by far and large, simply because of effective communication and because they don't do the things I said Lin Dyslioth does in this complaint.

This is a complaint and I'm outlining why I think the character should not be allowed to be in a command position. If you looked into my complaint for more than five seconds and reversed what I said, you would find what I think is wrong. This is an issue of their validhunty behaviour and Lin Dyslioth's insane tendencies IC. The solution is to not make Lin Dyslioth a HoS. It is that simple. Saying I shouldn't be complaining in a complaint is... pretty funny.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Datamatt

[MissNatcula]

You mean the merc round where the mercs literally took an hour to even arrive on station, made jokes about shestrying being 'sheskidnapped' in looc the second we walked in then bitched about us wanting the mercs to authorise their visit when they showed up unannounced, heavily armed and demanding to just freely barge in? Then the captain telling Lin to ensure they were watched and once they got what they came for to be escorted back to their ship and left then they wanted back on and the captain told me no and to keep them behind the checkpoint till she arrived. How the fuck is that Lin's fault? She was following orders. Maybe don't start a gimmick an hour into a round then bitch when security and captain slow you down. RP is RP. We were all rping, not delaying the round. If I remember correctly the merc team then went on a shoot on sight killing spree against vamps who hadn't even done shit. AKA why Lin hid Lafortune in the bunker after the merc team no rp blasted him trying to kill him. Then she got turned and guess what? The second they saw me green SHOT ME with NO RP while I was just standing there. I even made a rp post the second after that I had ready because I KNEW that would happen. Did I ahelp that bullshit? No. Because I'm not a cunt. I give people a chance to make up for mistakes if they go onto trying to rp afterwards. Do I get that same courtesy back? Hell the fuck no. Never.

 

Don't come on here and boast about me getting 'punished' on topics you don't even clearly know the full context to or even know if some one WAS 'punished'. Its really shows your lack of understanding and assumptions on a situation apparently you seem to think you have all figured out and are accusing me of being an offender of.

[MattAtlas]

2 minutes ago, MissNatcula said:

You mean the merc round where the mercs literally took an hour to even arrive on station, made jokes about shestrying being 'sheskidnapped' in looc the second we walked in then bitched about us wanting the mercs to authorise their visit when they showed up unannounced, heavily armed and demanding to just freely barge in? Then the captain telling Lin to ensure they were watched and once they got what they came for to be escorted back to their ship and left then they wanted back on and the captain told me no and to keep them behind the checkpoint till she arrived. How the fuck is that Lin's fault? She was following orders. Maybe don't start a gimmick an hour into a round then bitch when security and captain slow you down. RP is RP. We were all rping, not delaying the round. If I remember correctly the merc team then went on a shoot on sight killing spree against vamps who hadn't even done shit. AKA why Lin hid Lafortune in the bunker after the merc team no rp blasted him trying to kill him. Then she got turned and guess what? The second they saw me green SHOT ME with NO RP while I was just standing there. I even made a rp post the second after that I had ready because I KNEW that would happen. Did I ahelp that bullshit? No. Because I'm not a cunt. I give people a chance to make up for mistakes if they go onto trying to rp afterwards. Do I get that same courtesy back? Hell the fuck no. Never.

 

Don't come on here and boast about me getting 'punished' on topics you don't even clearly know the full context to or even know if some one WAS 'punished'. Its really shows your lack of understanding and assumptions on a situation apparently you seem to think you have all figured out and are accusing me of being an offender of. 

This is unnecessarily hostile. I've been courteous to you and I've laid out my facts in an objective manner. I've not gotten mad throughout this complaint. I ask you do the same, if you want a good discussion.

I will not argue something that has already been handled by an admin. I only brought up that round as evidence of there being a problem, considering the ticket WAS handled. As such, this is not really a reply to the complaint, nor does it help your case. Once again, you're relying on people seeing your outbursts and getting pity points. I don't like that.

[MissNatcula]

Sorry if I don't play up to your level of standards but honestly, I have played nothing but security for over a year an a half, just on Aurora not counting playing the seven years on other ss13 over the years. I've watched really shitty people be HOS, main sec, be shitters constantly but because they are popular they are praised as being good security players. Thats my opinion.

I'm not going to bash others here, say all the things I personally see other recent HOS' do that I think should exclude them from their own whitelist/role/characters because thats their own character and its stuff you can easily bring up in an IR if you want to take the time and it some how effects me so badly I don't want to play some how.

What you accuse me of, is behaviour I've literally seen others; not just HOS players but some are because amazingly I do ghost and such myself time to time, do repeatedly and you chose me, out of all of those other players to complain about. Why? Because my play hours are greater? ANYONE you see daily you will end up finding shit to complain about. So yeah, little offended. Its a bit unfair for you to come on here and be completely oblivious/naive/stubborn, whatever you want to call it about other sec main players and their own valid hunting and say I'm the worse. I am not the worse. Me being gone isn't going to fix shit all for the general community, only going to make you pleased some how. Which is fucked.

 

I agree. I want to hear some raw, real, criticism. Not just, 'you valid hunt and throw fits and I want you gone' which pretty much is what I pick up off you as it is now.

[firstact]

I was asked to give input into this so I will keep it pretty short and concise. My personal experience from an outside perspective often, has been a mixed bag, but I have two main views to address.

They are fairly decent at roleplaying with specific players as antags, but often outright have ignored other antags who were never even given a chance to roleplay the situation. When Lin roleplays, it's actually fairly good. The problem is it's inconsistent and only seems to be with certain people. I've seen the same scenarios play out quite a few times, on both ends. With some of the more common antag players, Lin is actually willing to partake in the round and for the most part, they're fine. However I've also seen Lin do exactly what they complained about, which is instantly ganking someone without any prior roleplay. If they're going to be HoS, a position that normally drives the round, they need to be consistent with how they engage antags. From an outside perspective, time after time, it has seemed incredibly obvious that it is just meta-friends in some manner.

Second point: Lin somewhat consistently dismisses their actual role as Head of Security. Similar to Brutishcrab (for reference) as a HoS, they seem to feel inclined to take action specifically upon themselves, often denying the chance for some of the better sec players to even partake in the round. A few examples would be privately talking with an antag that they know personally, for well over half an hour. Taking half the armory themselves to chase a single antag, leaving their entire sec team in the dust with no communication. And immediately shutting down parts of the round that she does not seem to enjoy. Either on the side of the antags by immediately chasing them solo, or on the part of officers, who I've seen try to give said antags actual chances to roleplay. From my experience ghosting on rounds, I've not often seen Lin perform as a security manager. They more resemble the old issue of simply trying to be "Super Security." Or in other words, a validhunter.

As a closing note, I have not often seen Natcula actually take constructive criticism. Not only have I seen others attempt to be constructive with your behavior via LOOC, but I have tried to myself after seeing them get shut down. If you don't want people to complain about your behavior, you need to see that they are not explicitly the issue. I get that this has gotten a little heated, but your behavior is seriously in need of change, as it has driven quite a few players to simply avoid playing when you're on. And I shouldn't need to stress how fucking terrible that is for the server. If you somehow see this criticism as a personal attack, then I don't know what else to say.

Edited July 16, 2019 by firstact

[Jupiter Storm]

Gonna approach this from a few angles to flesh out the context of what I think everyone in general might be referring to - I'm neither supporting the player complaint because I don't have anything against the player themselves, nor am I refuting the player complaint because there are very real problems that need to be addressed. I'm supporting positive change - not just on the part of Lin but on the part of many, this isn't an isolated issue and player complaint'ing every single person would be frankly tiresome and - do the admins really want all the extra work? It's nice to have a public forum to explore the problem if only briefly and it seems there are enough eyes here to do that, so:

> Head of Security: To start with - I will be honest and frank with the best of intentions. No, I don't believe that Lin Dyslioth as a character, with the character traits described and the mental history behind the character, is suited for the position as Commander. Not just because of the stresses involved, but because of the requirement to specifically work with others, and coordinate a team from the sidelines effectively, without preconception and focusing on the objective facts of round. Can the player do so effectively if they were given a different character? That remains to be seen! The problem is, the role of Head of Security needs to be more properly defined and enforced in how it operates; the entire premise of the role is to organize the I.S.D. from your office, manage communications and outline the rules of engagement based on the evidence you've seen and that your Forensic Techs have brought you - if any.

 

> Command: It's a misconception on the part of a great many people that members of Command personally dealing with antagonists or other visitor types is of benefit to the round. It just isn't, it removes the crew from the opportunity to interact and / or choice of being affected by the round. From an OOC standpoint based on real-life comparisons, it doesn't even make sense! Visitors don't need to be taken to your leader, they need to be taken to the RIGHT leader - based on the flavour of their gimmick. The ONLY member of Command who should be the face of the crew in all things, is the Captain, because they don't have a department to specifically coordinate. Based on what I have seen, I believe that Lin Dyslioth does often like to have this focal point around her, as the Head of Security. Being the only member Command online doesn't qualify you for interactions that are beyond the scope of your role - it simply makes you the ranking official with regards to any decisions that need to be made.

Now to be fair, the I.S.D. is by definition intrinsically involved with antagonists, but it's not their job to find out what someone wants or to direct their gimmick if it's a non-antaggy one, it's their job to handle security concerns. Yet it seems to me that Nat will constantly shadow these individuals as their personal escort, or try and handle negotiations on her own. If those go south? She takes it personally, and that affects the decisions she makes as a character (or a player, it's unclear, but I'm going to assume the character) - this is not a suitable character trait for Command.

Natcula, if you're reading this - I'm not trying to bash you. I want you to understand that in the role that you've chosen for Lin Dyslioth, her job needs to be to provide information to the crew, and ORGANIZE responses to Security concerns, not be the spearhead OF that response. Positive change is great, and it removes the need for Character Complaints.

I also want to note on the side that I believe you did levy a player complaint against ShesTrying for doing the same thing as Head of Personnel - a complaint that I agree with based on the things that I've outlined above - but it seems that you've fallen into the same trap?

 

> Metacliquing: Right, off the bat I'm going to say that this term is thrown about a lot (overused, in fact) and there's some players who don't know what it means. Metaclique is when you use your OOC knowledge of - and friendship with - a player to specifically seek out their characters, on any character, regardless of whether they have a legitimate reason to meet or not, and will only roleplay with the characters of that player, giving others very little attention and denying outsiders access to this roleplay. This OOC association with the player affects the decisions your character makes regarding their character in a profound way - whether deciding whether to kill or talk to them, or teaming up with them because you know they're robust or that you know they'll go for it while others won't give you the time of day.

To debunk some of the arguments AGAINST Natcula now - this term despite its negative connotations is a both a boon and a curse. The first half has never been and never will be a bad thing, because everybody enjoys different styles of roleplay and some players and simply more compatible with one another than they are with others, due to similar preferences in writing style. If Natcula doesn't like the way most roleplayers play, here, she has every right to only properly indulge herself in depth RP with specific people.

The OTHER half, Natcula doesn't do. Without sounding harsh - let's be honest, the proof is in the pudding - Nat doesn't really have many people to Metaclique with, not only because she only plays the one character for the most part, but also because most people are against her for one reason or another.

As was already stated, the Kalna thing is a Kalna issue.

 

> In-Character Prejudice: A common complaint that is levied against Natcula is that Lin Dyslioth essentially treats other characters - most of those people being security officers - like dirt. I can vouch for this complaint because I've played several rounds as Garret O'Brien with her as the Warden. Again, I'm going to assume this is an in-character thing, and from an IC standpoint she's entitled to be that way if those characters possess traits that she does not like.

But again, this is not a behaviour that ANY member of Command should possess, ever, at all, not once, not ever.

I understand from some observations that Lin Dyslioth is a complicated character, she considers others to be meat heads and so on... but from a Commander perspective - they are YOUR meat heads. Your job is not to be their friend, your job is to coordinate them and use them effectively, not simply dismiss out of hand that they are even remotely reliable. IRs and reprimands exist for situations that are handled poorly AFTER the fact.

 

> Inconsistent Escalation: This point has actually been alluded to only in little segments, but it's a concern I see floating around as lot in Dead Chat and witness all too often as an A.I. Lin Dyslioth behaves in one of two ways - when the roleplay is focused around her character, she will enable antagonists and avoid going to Blue, avoid commanding arrests, avoid doing anything remotely hostile despite the laws being BLATANTLY broken by the antagonists involved if they've done nothing to HER, personally. It literally takes a full blown murder in front of her eyes to make her see the light - and even then, sometimes, it's brushed under the carpet because it wasn't a character she knew and cared about personally.

If the roleplay is NOT centered around Lin, she WILL escalate a Security response, have people go out and arrest them or try to make the arrest herself. As the A.I., I very very very rarely witness any communication between Lin and her officers throughout such scenarios, and while I have a lot of stuff to do, whenever I look at Lin she's either laying in an Operating Room, bleeding from a firefight, OR she's staring down the antag, trying to negotiate or tell them that they're bad and they should feel bad. I don't really know what else to say on this. Nobody knows where she is, what she's doing, they only find it out after she gets shot or when someone else tells them where she is.

To re-iterate an earlier point, every minute Lin Dyslioth spends out of her office interacting or fighting with someone else is another minute she's not distributing information and coordinating her team.

 

~ In Summary ~

I apologise for the essay. I hope I've been largely constructive with it, but to conclude with the key points I'd like to see change...

• Lin Dyslioth as she currently is, is not suitable as a Head of Security. In order to be an effective commander, she needs to learn when to step back and manage affairs from the sidelines, and open her heart to others, trust them to do their job, and view the facts objectively without having any personal experience of the situation.
• You need to provide the rest of the crew with a chance to have a say in how the antag's gimmick goes down. A chance to influence the round. Let your officers deal with it - if they're doing a shit job, tell them how and why, but keep them informed. Let other characters on the station roleplay with the antag as well, not just Security - within the realms of reason; if they're shooting up the place, by all means demand their severed head on a spike.
• Maybe consider dialling back on the personal issues that Lin is suffering with, and provide her with some stability. She could be on the mend from psychiatric treatments, which would explain the sudden change. Maybe she has a sit-down talk with someone else in Command who points out these problems to her ICly. Lin Dyslioth would be a lot more enjoyable as a character if she had some consistency, and didn't seem to - SEEM TO - instantly 180 between being a bit soft to being a one-woman army.

 

Regardless of the outcome of this complaint though, I have no issue with the Player - we all need to learn, and I had my education as well, the hard way. Sometimes I still do - it's not because people are against you irrationally, it's because you genuinely do something that doesn't fall in line, in some way. It's a hard pill to swallow because you think it's embarrassing to suddenly crumble under so much pressure - but it's not, nobody would think less of you for changing, we want you to change because you otherwise have so many good qualities and people want to enjoy those without the experiencing the bad. IMHO.

[Kryostro]

As other arguments suggest and hint towards, she is very inconsistent in my own opinion when it comes OOCly I feel to dealing with characters, and badly managing of Head of Security as a role due to the IC issues that the character has. I believe someone said +1 on their application only if they made a new character for the role. It's like me saying I'll make Shane Castralo a Head of Personnel.

 

It just doesn't work.

Shane Castralo, really bad history of doing really goofy stuff, and overall has a reputation for being a hooligan. NanoTrasen would most definitely not put them in control of the service department and absolutely not give them extensive access and the capability to have your own gun, (if I'm remembering what spawns in the HOP lockers correctly.)

Lin has mental issues, yes? Not sure if my logic is correct but, if I were a corporation and I wanted to promote someone to Head of Security. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't put them in the role if they have had a serious medical history of dealing with issues then being put in charge of a security team on one of the most stressful corporations and most dangerous one when push comes to shove. 

 

Another issue, people have brought up in the past about the intentional naive behavior to actually go against validhunting. Which only further hurts the station and security when it comes to the eventual crescendo of a antagonist round. Intentionally ignoring someone is doing if it's able to be passed off as questionable. Despite the fact of it being the NSS Aurora where the flowers grow somewhat freely. You're a Head of Security and you have to make assumptions correctly instead of trying to brush it off as a meta move within your own judgement. But that may just be trailing off from the truth, what I'm saying. But if anything, I don't think Lin Dyslioth is a good candidate to make a Head of Security. And seeing some of these behaviors, the player probably needs to take a few steps back and hone their skills.  

 

Aside from the character complaint, OOCly I think they should especially step back when it comes to addressing other players complaints about them, this isn't just this thread that things like this has happen. Anything that is negative seems to be a invitation for hostility. Which in my eyes is very very very uncordial.

 

If you really want to see me dig into all of the things I find wrong with it, go onto their command application.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Kryostro
Put in a example.

[MissNatcula]

When did this complaint turn from a complaint about me valid hunting to psychoanalysing my character from every single angle and how she isn't fit for command. I've already address her mental issue has nothing to do with her doing the job. Stop trying to make it a thing, it never was a thing, stop bring it up as fodder.

 

How about instead of saying how specifically Lin Dyslioth; in your opinions, is not fit for command but as a whole there are a lot of characters in command positions; in my own opinion, not fit for command. Stop countering me by saying 'thats not an excuse' and address the damn issue as a whole. Its very double standard, one way mirror to say my character is not fit for command, try to get my character removed, but not also do the same to all the other characters; some also HOS', who are also not fit for their command role; again in your own opinions.

 

I could go on here and detail several displays of horrible HOS behaviour I've witnessed in the last month alone that came from other HOS' but I'm not here to bash people. I'm here to defend myself but I'm not going to sit here and take this shit if you guys can't pull your own heads out of the dirt and realise getting rid of me ain't going to fix what you seem to have a problem with. Which is valid hunting.

 

If I broke the rules, stepped out bounds SO much I deserve to have my character removed why has NO ONE made an IR? Why has NO ONE ahelp'd had an admin address this? Its hard to take you guys seriously when you clearly have done neither. Just sat there as ghosts, discord, whatever and spit on how horrible I am then when some one finally makes a loose complaint you all hop on in like a firing squad. If you have actual proof that was undeniably incriminating of me doing this stuff, sure. Maybe I'd be like 'oh hey my bad' but from my point of view its hard to see how my behaviour has been to that level of scummy that my character deserves a termination from her position.

 

Anyways. I suggest every one stop posting in general to this. It was made as announcements opinions are not really contributing to complaint cases and otherwise.

Edited July 17, 2019 by MissNatcula