Implement Combat module for Malf

[Pratepresidenten]

Hello frens. I have come to offer some input.

First off, for the OP: Malfs do have combat borgs, but they're only accessible through delta, but by then, people will want to jump ship due to the nature of delta. So perhaps it could be tied to red alert + overclocking.

Combat borgs were given cuffs iirc, to give them the OPTION to detain. Combat borgs were designed to hunt down and neutralize any opposition, but now they have a choice to detain.

As for those of you that argue that there is no need to remove flash abuse, go play borg. Seriously, go play a stationbound and come back here after youve been flashcheesed and beaten to death without ANY counter and tell me this is perfectly fine. The borgs have no choice but to be cannonfodder for the malf. It is not their fault, they are compelled to enforce the will of the AI.

The laser rifle and ion rifles are both two extremely viable options to trash a borg. Even if the ion is almost certain death, it still allows for SOME protection, like an airlock or glass.

Dont punish the borgs for bad malf and malf gimmicks.

[Nantei]

2 hours ago, Pratepresidenten said:

As for those of you that argue that there is no need to remove flash abuse, go play borg. Seriously, go play a stationbound and come back here after youve been flashcheesed and beaten to death without ANY counter and tell me this is perfectly fine. The borgs have no choice but to be cannonfodder for the malf. It is not their fault, they are compelled to enforce the will of the AI.

The laser rifle and ion rifles are both two extremely viable options to trash a borg. Even if the ion is almost certain death, it still allows for SOME protection, like an airlock or glass.

Dont punish the borgs for bad malf and malf gimmicks.

Yes. Please. I have been saying it for awhile now. Antagonist stationbound is the weakest antagonist par none. Even the changeling laughs at it. The modules they get aren't even remotely equivalent to what a standard traitor gets.

[sonicgotnuked]

2 hours ago, Nantei said:

Yes. Please. I have been saying it for awhile now. Antagonist stationbound is the weakest antagonist par none. Even the changeling laughs at it. The modules they get aren't even remotely equivalent to what a standard traitor gets.

Keep in mind that I did put a thing into the traitor code for borgos to gain their overclock. I feel like this somewhat made them better. But yeah, antag station bound is weak. It wouldn't be that hard to have code red + overclock allow combat. The procs are already around.

[ben10083]

10 hours ago, Pratepresidenten said:

As for those of you that argue that there is no need to remove flash abuse, go play borg. Seriously, go play a stationbound and come back here after youve been flashcheesed and beaten to death without ANY counter and tell me this is perfectly fine. The borgs have no choice but to be cannonfodder for the malf. It is not their fault, they are compelled to enforce the will of the AI.

Yeah when I had this happen to me over and over again, I found out that it was a stun time of 10-15 seconds per flash, and timer resets per every flash. That led me to fiddle with values to make it reasonable. Unless there was a recent change, I am unsure if the flash was touched after that.

[Kaed]

I'm not a fan of it being tied to an alert level. The inability to take prisoners or perform subterfuge in the absence of putting the station on full alert is bad.  Forcing antags to take one path (being loud) to accomplish goals that don't have to be loud is bad.

 

Though thinking about it, limiting this ability to take prisoners to a highly telegraphed combat borg also has similar problems.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Kaed

[Carver]

2 hours ago, Kaed said:

I'm not a fan of it being tied to an alert level. The inability to take prisoners or perform subterfuge in the absence of putting the station on full alert is bad.  Forcing antags to take one path (being loud) to accomplish goals that don't have to be loud is bad.

 

Though thinking about it, limiting this ability to take prisoners to a highly telegraphed combat borg also has similar problems.

You understand that taking prisoners is a loud action, correct?

20 hours ago, Kaed said:

If you think it's required to be able to stunlock people, and that blinding them and taking away their ability to use tools quickly without reselecting them is worthless, then I think you might be on the wrong server. We're trying to move away from gameplay like that.

If you want to recapture the spirit of being flash cuffed every time you're not a role that has sunglasses, go try baystation 12. They're still using that mechanic, and they've got a pretty cool spaceship map.

Your 'go play X' whining response actually fits Bay perfectly.

20 hours ago, Kaed said:

That being said, if there was a way to make there be a cool-down between stuns with the Flash, like they can't be stunned again until a minute later, instead of just being able to be flashed spammed forever until they die, that would also work. Like, give them an emergency visual sensor setting that limits their vision temporarily (sort of how a welding mask works), but also makes them immune to flashes during that period.

The cooldown is that it burns out after some amount of uses, typically at least 5. I wouldn't mind if the average 'uses until burnt' amount was lowered to around 3. As for the visual sensor thing, I haven't tested it, but I'm fairly sure they can disable their own camera. As to whether that protects from flashes, unaware, as I said I haven't tested it.

[Kaed]

2 hours ago, Carver said:

You understand that taking prisoners is a loud action, correct?

The cooldown is that it burns out after some amount of uses, typically at least 5. I wouldn't mind if the average 'uses until burnt' amount was lowered to around 3. As for the visual sensor thing, I haven't tested it, but I'm fairly sure they can disable their own camera. As to whether that protects from flashes, unaware, as I said I haven't tested it.

-Attempting to take prisoners in secret without alerting the crew to it happening is not an implictly loud action.  Someone going missing mysteriously is not a loud action.

-That's not a cooldown.  That's an overuse penalty. The two are entirely different concepts and the latter does not solve any issues because it exists right now and flashes are a problem still.  Being able to be flash spammed only 3 times instead of 5 still means you are going to be stunlocked for long enough to die with no counter but I guess they can't do it to a second borg after.  Whooptie fuckin doo.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Kaed

[Itanimulli]

Hmmm....I wonder. Could emags perhaps trigger the ability to syndieborg (considering they will usually be done by...emags…and thus intended to serve another force) and combat be locked be locked behind traitor and malf?

And while we're at it...can we discuss changing around some of the traitor tools for borgs? I don't know, an e-pistol or something? Aim intent works wonders when people are focused on rp…..

[Brutishcrab51]

That may undermine the value of Syndieborgs as coded. They're worth 35 Telecrystals, and a Traitor only spawns with 25.

[Itanimulli]

2 minutes ago, Brutishcrab51 said:

That may undermine the value of Syndieborgs as coded. They're worth 35 Telecrystals, and a Traitor only spawns with 25.

Oh, fair enough. Kinda forgot the whole cost thing. Perhaps some sort of weaker version? lmfao 9mm gun

[Carver]

33 minutes ago, Brutishcrab51 said:

That may undermine the value of Syndieborgs as coded. They're worth 35 Telecrystals, and a Traitor only spawns with 25.

Syndieborg module being an option available to 'borg traitors would be interesting, at the least, for lack of their having any TCs (or rather, a way to spend their TCs) to begin with. I'd never give said module to malf or any random traitor who emags a 'borg, though.

[Brutishcrab51]

It would also be extremely powerful, more powerful than normal traitors[CITATION NEEDED] (don't quote me on that).

They have a mounted SMG, an Emag, a crowbar, an energy sword, a laser cannon, a grenade launcher with frags, flashbangs and smoke grenades and a few other things. I don't code-dive or I'd tell you exactly what they had.

 

I mean, I'd be all for seeing them with a variant of the Syndieborg module. Let's call it the Traitorborg module.

[Itanimulli]

36 minutes ago, Brutishcrab51 said:

It would also be extremely powerful, more powerful than normal traitors[CITATION NEEDED] (don't quote me on that).

They have a mounted SMG, an Emag, a crowbar, an energy sword, a laser cannon, a grenade launcher with frags, flashbangs and smoke grenades and a few other things. I don't code-dive or I'd tell you exactly what they had.

 

I mean, I'd be all for seeing them with a variant of the Syndieborg module. Let's call it the Traitorborg module.

What if they had the ability to choose after goading someone into reseting them? You know, like, they can either pick the traitorborg or the combat borg. This is moreso because combat borgs offer more on the mobility/hit and run side, while syndies get more utility and sabotage potential as a whole, with the whole thermals gig and all that.

Both have their respective strengths and weaknesses.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Itanimulli

[Carver]

54 minutes ago, Brutishcrab51 said:

It would also be extremely powerful, more powerful than normal traitors[CITATION NEEDED] (don't quote me on that).

They have a mounted SMG, an Emag, a crowbar, an energy sword, a laser cannon, a grenade launcher with frags, flashbangs and smoke grenades and a few other things. I don't code-dive or I'd tell you exactly what they had.

 

I mean, I'd be all for seeing them with a variant of the Syndieborg module. Let's call it the Traitorborg module.

• Flash

• Thermal vision

• Energy sword

• Mounted SMG

• Net gun

• Grenade launcher

• Crowbar

• Cryptographic sequencer

• Jetpack

It's a decent kit, the only questionable thing would be frags in the 'nade launcher. Without frags it's otherwise somewhat equal to what the typical traitor can get with some effort.

[Brutishcrab51]

Energy Sword - 6-8 TC. Crypto - 6TC. Net gun - unavailable, vault only. Thermals - 4-6 TC. Mounted SMG, equivalent to the Tommy(?) - 12 TC. Grenade launcher, not available in the uplink.

That's a lotta' damage.

[Nantei]

The syndicate borg module is barely functioning. The SMG often does not fire any actual projectile, or doesn't reload. The grenade launcher fires frags, which are good, but not nearly as good as they used to be, the syndie borg is still sodomized by EMP of course, the net-gun has literally never worked in my experience. So... really their usable kit is: Grenade Launcher, E-sword, Emag, Thermals. On an already pretty limited and weak antagonist. Also an E-mag for a borg is pretty damn useless for hopefully obvious reasons.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Nantei

[Itanimulli]

Aight forget the syndie borg combat borg would require less bugfixes and as it's been worded so far seems easier to implement.

[Carver]

9 hours ago, Nantei said:

Also an E-mag for a borg is pretty damn useless for hopefully obvious reasons.

You forget e-mags have a myriad of mechanics beyond 'break door'.

Overall, seeing the syndie borg get a looking at to clean up any bugginess and allowing it for traitor cyborgs seems fine to me. SMG hasn't been potent since the days of SMGs stunning on hit, e-sword's a quite fair tool considering it carries the risk of melee range, and as I said if the 'nade launcher had either no frags or a limited, unreplenishable supply of frags (3?) there'd be no worries. 

[Nantei]

12 hours ago, Carver said:

You forget e-mags have a myriad of mechanics beyond 'break door'.

I didn't forget that, but it is the primary advantage of the item for sure. There's not a lot I think a stationbound would have use for an emag for.