Fixing Nymphs

[Estoytrucha]

I understand nymphs are a controversial topic, as people can play them without whitelists, but they're also adorable additions to any round. This suggestion has been a long time coming from me. Please, fix the nymph spawn point. As pointed out to me, the way they only live for six seconds after spawn, giving such a small window to enter, is not lore compliant. It's also frustrating in the  same way there's no pop up prompt, easy way to enter the pod, and there's no ghost spawner makes playing them a QTE. Please, let people play the nymphs. Please, give them as much respect as you give posis or even rats. Please, give us either a better more obvious way to enter nymphs, a ghost spawner, or both.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Estoytrucha
Grammar brain fart

[Aticius]

Nymphs are good.

 

Ghostspawners are good.

 

Nymph + Ghostspawner = Good^2

 

Math checks out.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Aticius

[Faye <3]

i would like this. nymphs are cute.

[DatSamTho]

Yes please. We need the cute.

[ChevyChevron]

I don't play gardener but I know some people who do and (in addition to this thread) I've heard some complaints regarding the nature of growing Dionae.  At present, I'd wager a lot of gardeners/xenobotanists think that nymphs aren't worth the effort needed to actually grow them.  I think the changes proposed in this thread would go a long way toward improving the quality of life around the feature.

[Zundy]

Yes, this would be good. I feel like @geeves looked into this before? Is is spaghetti code?

[Chada1]

I would like to also say, since we removed the mouse/rat role for not adding to the rounds roleplay and actively being a pest -- a precident is absolutely there to actively remove features from Nymphs such as the ability to eat boxes, live animals, and even a weakening of their bite/blood sucks, so that they're less abuseable overall, if it were necessary to make this go through ?

[Aticius]

24 minutes ago, Chada1 said:

I would like to also say, since we removed the mouse/rat role for not adding to the rounds roleplay and actively being a pest -- a precident is absolutely there to actively remove features from Nymphs such as the ability to eat boxes, live animals, and even a weakening of their bite/blood sucks, so that they're less abuseable overall, if it were necessary to make this go through ?

Nymphs have to be willed into existence by someone else. If someone wants to be a shitter with Nymphs, they're probably a shitter without them.

[monomyth]

^

also ghostspawner is the best
do nymph
make it happen baby

[Chada1]

22 minutes ago, Aticius said:

Nymphs have to be willed into existence by someone else. If someone wants to be a shitter with Nymphs, they're probably a shitter without them.

Not how it works, we literally removed Rats because they were abuseable and it made no sense to hold them to high standards, there is probably little to no way we're going to add nymphs back in their place with all of the old grief'y rat features

Basically the question: WHAT VALUE does being able to chew apart boxes as a mechanic really bring other than annoying and griefing people? it really brings nothing. It was added to mice explicitly to allow them to annoy and aggrivate people. It's honestly a mechanic that could easily be removed from Nymphs with little to no value lost at all

Edited December 22, 2020 by Chada1

[Chada1]

On another note, if we held Nymphs to higher standards it could be ?

Such as actually bwoinking people who are using them to cause problems on the Station for no reason, so that the old rat behavior isn't allowed, that could be a good way to fix this problem without actually removing anything I guess.

There'd still be the problem that the actual intent behind some of their mechanics (Box biting as the main thing) were literally designed with bad behavior in mind as the goal, tho, which is ?

Other than these small problems with some of the features they've had (Just in relation from Rats, really) I'm actually a big fan of this idea

Edited December 22, 2020 by Chada1

[4000daniel1]

Nymph good, nymph give good and fun RP, make nymph better, yes.

[Aticius]

Nymphs should absolutely be held to a standard higher than "Literally no standard."

 

If Nymphs can't be ahelped if they go around murdering people by sucking all their blood or eating all the boxes, then I retract everything i've said here.

[Chada1]

7 minutes ago, Aticius said:

Nymphs should absolutely be held to a standard higher than "Literally no standard."

 

If Nymphs can't be ahelped if they go around murdering people by sucking all their blood or eating all the boxes, then I retract everything i've said here.

Right now it's a wish-washy thing. (And if we want to make this happen we should fix that)

Some people (Staff included) seem to say they can be complete pests with the tradeoff that they can be killed by anyone for doing it, so it's IC. <= This line is exactly what rats were.

Others (Staff included again) say they're held to standards and have to justify the things they do ICly. <= This line is what I would want them to be if we didn't remove the worst griefy features

 

Also if a staff member would weight in on this that'd be super great

Edited December 22, 2020 by Chada1

[Estoytrucha]

Then remove those features, Chada. I want to play a nymph, and if I can get bwoinked for beeping too much as a maint bot then I sure as heck can be ahelped as a nymph. My understanding is you could already ahelp them people just haven't PLAYED them in forever because they're so hard to play.

[Shenaanigans]

As a moderator, I'll say that I would absolutely tell a person to knock it off if they were using control over a nymph to wantonly destroy things, bite people, or just have a huge nuisance of themselves. I don't think you can really compare them directly to rats (which I supported the removal of) because rats provided literally zero RP to the round while nymphs are actual, sentient creatures who can speak, gather knowledge from crew, and become gestalts.

I don't see a reason why the spawn method for them shouldn't be made more accessible. It exists in a frustrating, half-broken state right now, so it should either be fixed to be sensible like posibrains or removed entirely if people think it's detrimental to RP.

[Chada1]

2 minutes ago, Shenaanigans said:

As a moderator, I'll say that I would absolutely tell a person to knock it off if they were using control over a nymph to wantonly destroy things, bite people, or just have a huge nuisance of themselves. I don't think you can really compare them directly to rats (which I supported the removal of) because rats provided literally zero RP to the round while nymphs are actual, sentient creatures who can speak, gather knowledge from crew, and become gestalts.

I don't see a reason why the spawn method for them shouldn't be made more accessible. It exists in a frustrating, half-broken state right now, so it should either be fixed to be sensible like posibrains or removed entirely if people think it's detrimental to RP.

Ok, thank you for clearing that up, when I was bringing up the difference in the past I was told by staff that they Were comparable to rats, which is why I had this misunderstanding, if they're held like this and not treated as if they shouldn't try to roleplay at all, then it's ?

[Yonnimer]

31 minutes ago, Aticius said:

If Nymphs can't be ahelped if they go around murdering people by sucking all their blood or eating all the boxes, then I retract everything i've said here.

Admins do bwoink nymphs for doing this. I was back when I first started playing lmao.

I am perfectly fine with adding some special ghost roles for nymphs and making it so nymphs that are grown don't' die after a few seconds if someone doesn't take it, honestly I wouldn't mind making it forever unless someone destroys the bulb.  

This was discussed a while back with the team, but, it wasn't high priority at the time. I'd be down for it though if someone is willing to add it. 

[Chada1]

Alright well, I'll see about coding the Nymphs onto the ghost role menu and making their pods work similar to Posibrains, I have no clue how successful I'll be as I've never touched this system Ever so if anyone wanted to help me with it that'd be great, but I'll try.

[Estoytrucha]

Thank you very much!

[Estoytrucha]

Any word on this?

[PoZe]

I have implemented what you requested in PR https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/10926

Nymphs will have their own preference just like living plant. I moved code for nymphs to not be part of living plant. I set both to have timeout of 1 minute, instead of 6 seconds. Please let me know if time needs adjustment. I will also see if devs or maintainers will request timeout to be different.

Edited January 7, 2021 by PoZe

[Zundy]

So it's the same but will appear on ghost spawner and last 6 mins? So a ghost/character "harvests" the pod which spawns and nymph on the ghost role?

[PoZe]

9 hours ago, Zundy said:

So it's the same but will appear on ghost spawner and last 6 mins? So a ghost/character "harvests" the pod which spawns and nymph on the ghost role?

Yes, that's how it works. But only 1 minute, not 6 minutes. And no, it isn't using ghost spawner menu. It uses the role preference tab which is called ghosttrap in the code. I am debating with devs whether it should be ghostspawner or ghosttrap. But regardless of that, it will work in the same way. Someone is harvesting seeds of nymph, it sends 1 minute ghost request to everyone who has nymph role set to yes. Then whoever was first gets the nymph, otherwise after a minute if there is nobody controlling it, it will die. Essentially same as posibrain

[Chada1]

Geeves PR here: Thank you v. much PoZe, but also Geeves has improved it further for us, it goes on the ghostspawner when it PR goes up and then it'll stay for 3 minutes.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Chada1